The Fetch Bandaid

[PanzerYeena]

So, I saw the Fetch mod shown on the devstream, but I don't see it as any kind of permanent solution to the massive gap between Kubrows and the rest of the companions.

The reason people don't use Kubrows is not the lack of vacuum. If that were true, then no one would run Smeetas either. Yet they do, purely because of the sheer usefulness of their utility. The reason lies elsewhere. Here's how I see it:

Kavats and Kubrows have 10 mod slots, which have to be shared by utility, durability, and damage. In Smeeta's case, the damage is hardly relevant because of Charm and Sharpened Claws - you can focus on durability to make sure your cat survives, then the RNG buff and armour removal do the rest.

Sentinels, however, effectively come with 18 mod slots. The 10 on the Sentinel itself are shared by utility and durability mods, but the damage is completely separated and has its own 8 mod slots on the weapon. "But I don't even run a weapon on my Sentinel!" some of you will say - yes... because just like the Smeeta, the utility of Carrier, Helios, and Taxon is good enough that just having the damn things survive to use the precept mods is good enough to warrant using them.

What about the Kubrows, then? Well, they have 10 slots. Their breed-specific abilities are, well... for the most part kinda weak. Huras' invisibility makes that far more usable than the rest, but as the devstream showed, it's barely enough to outclass the weakest of Sentinels. The rest? Chesa's fetch, Sunika's finisher damage, Huras' Hunt? Other than Stalk, there isn't a single ability they have that is worth using over what the Kavats and Sentinels give. Alright, then what about damage? If the drones and cats are meant for utility, then surely the big dogs should do some damage, right? Yeah... sure. 10 mod slots crammed with durability and utility mods, on top of which I now have to add damage mods as well. Not to mention that we have barely anything in terms of damage mods - Bite and Maul. No elements, no status... just the very basic damage mods.

And now we get Fetch. What am I supposed to do with it? If I want to put it on my Kubrow, it's either going to die more or not do any damage, in which case I either have something that has to be revived every 20 seconds or a nerfed Carrier that runs around and gets itself killed because it's not doing enough damage. Again, why would I use it? The only reason I can think of is that I #*!%ing love Kubrows and I use them just because they are adorable.

I appreciate the effort, but it's nothing more than a bandaid for a problem that required a much more thought-out solution. Fetch should have been made innate at least for Kubrows, and even then they couldn't go toe-to-toe with Sentinels, at least not until you let us mod their damage the same way we can mod the weapons on Sentinels.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Just to clarify it's still too soon to complain. We didn't just get Fetch. Fetch is just a tiny sneak-peek, and a highly desired and hyped one (to engage players into it), to the whole Companion Rework coming soon. And since pet MOAs have their own mods, and Retrieve from Chesa will likely be replaced because of Fetch (Like Carrier's Vacuum was replaced before). Additionally, see how even sentinels are becoming as specialized as some pets, with Carrier's ammo and lootbox utility, Djinn's immortality. Helios's scans and Wyrms status protection. I wouldn0t be surprised if Kubrows win some new cool mods to revamp their usefulness. Along with Dethcube and the other floaty grineer sentinel. Who knows, even Shade will be as decent as Huras Kubrow at invisiblity. All in due time, Tenno!

Edited October 20, 2018 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[5H4DE]

I feel like it's time for companion abilities to be a baseline just like warframe ones. We no longer have to slot in our abilities on warframes, it's time pets do the same.

Edited October 20, 2018 by TheRealShade

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

3 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

I feel like it's time for companion abilities to be a baseline just like warframe ones. We no longer have to slot in our abilities on warframes, it's time pets do the same.

I could live with that, honestly. And now that you mention it, and remembering the old ability mods, it does seem outdated.

[Oreades]

I'm hoping it works more like vacuum than it does the standard Fetch(?) I'm not sure what it's called but I know one of the Kubrows brings back one item every 10 seconds or something like that which is essentially unhelpful to the point of being a wasted mod slot if I use it. I'm pretty sure that's that particular Kubrows "main" feature too. Is it any wonder I can't recall what Kubrow it is or the exact name of the mod. 

10 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

I feel like it's time for companion abilities to be a baseline just like warframe ones. We no longer have to slot in our abilities on warframes, it's time pets do the same.

The only problem there is that there are times where you want your Companion/Sentienl to just not attack but you still want them to be there. If you couldn't strait up remove those via mod then we would need some kind of toggle for the AI to flip it between various states of passive/agressive/etc.

Tho one of the things I really liked about Final Fantasy 13(?) was the ability to customize your companion AI to preform certain tasks based on specific parameters. Where it gave you kinda sorta code blocks? So you could swap out stuff to make basic IF statements (If health < X do Y) and you could really tailor how the AI behaved with respect to your particular style.

[5H4DE]

3 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I'm hoping it works more like vacuum than it does the standard Fetch(?) I'm not sure what it's called but I know one of the Kubrows brings back one item every 10 seconds or something like that which is essentially unhelpful to the point of being a wasted mod slot if I use it. I'm pretty sure that's that particular Kubrows "main" feature too. Is it any wonder I can't recall what Kubrow it is or the exact name of the mod. 

The only problem there is that there are times where you want your Companion/Sentienl to just not attack but you still want them to be there. If you couldn't strait up remove those via mod then we would need some kind of toggle for the AI to flip it between various states of passive/agressive/etc.

Tho one of the things I really liked about Final Fantasy 13(?) was the ability to customize your companion AI to preform certain tasks based on specific parameters. Where it gave you kinda sorta code blocks? So you could swap out stuff to make basic IF statements (If health < X do Y) and you could really tailor how the AI behaved with respect to your particular style.

Well, removing their ability mods won't stop then from using normal attacks tho. Istead we should just be able to order then around like specters, Offensive or Defensive so they either go wild or stick close to you and only attack enemies within a certain range of you.

[Vox_Preliator]

36 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I'm hoping it works more like vacuum than it does the standard Fetch(?) I'm not sure what it's called but I know one of the Kubrows brings back one item every 10 seconds or something like that which is essentially unhelpful to the point of being a wasted mod slot if I use it. I'm pretty sure that's that particular Kubrows "main" feature too. Is it any wonder I can't recall what Kubrow it is or the exact name of the mod.

They did take a moment to point out that it is "exactly the same" as the existing Vacuum mod in terms of the description, but to what extent wasn't shown.  Presumably it'll be centered on the animal, but whether all the loot'll be collected by the pet or if you'll have to periodically grab the big ball of loot following your pet yourself is yet to be seen.  However, it is definitely different from the Chesa precept.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Vox_Preliator

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

I feel like it's time for companion abilities to be a baseline just like warframe ones. We no longer have to slot in our abilities on warframes, it's time pets do the same.

We can pick what Ability to use. Sentinels and Pets cannot. Also remember what was removed when Ability mods were removed.

[5H4DE]

13 hours ago, peterc3 said:

We can pick what Ability to use. Sentinels and Pets cannot. Also remember what was removed when Ability mods were removed.

2 mod slots, but we had 4 abilities, doesn't mean that companions will have less mod slots.

[Nitro747]

You are wrong about Smeetas. Smeetas are used majorly to farm Kuva, which is something that isn't affected by vacuum anyways and most missions consist of just dropping in, finding the siphon and getting out. This is THE ONLY reason Smeeta Kavats were anywhere near the top 5 most used companions,

[Fallen_Echo]

I made this survey last year and while its obviously too small of a sample to see problems it gives some insights on the excat problem.

https://goo.gl/forms/jOzPkXm9L0iFH1gl1

The bad AI, no vacuum and the overall decreased survivability of pets is what keeps people away from these companions.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

3 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

You are wrong about Smeetas. Smeetas are used majorly to farm Kuva, which is something that isn't affected by vacuum anyways and most missions consist of just dropping in, finding the siphon and getting out. This is THE ONLY reason Smeeta Kavats were anywhere near the top 5 most used companions,

This ^

I mainly use Smeeta for Kuva, precisely for the reasons stated, and to farm gems and fish in PoE, also for the same reasons. I'll always use sentinels as well, and I await eagerly for what DE is going to release for Shade, Dethcube and Diriga. Those are the only 3 that still don't have a cool simaris mod to make them more viable and specialized.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

I can see Fetch pulling all items to the kubrow and the warframe would walk to the kubrow or vice versa to receive them. 

Retrieve I could see being like Loot Detector where the kubrow would pounce on the containers. Maybe even bark a lot when a rare one or reinforced one is nearby, maybe even caches too. Like within 30-50 meters. And they would look in that direction. Would help a lot in the search for caches and rare containers. At least I wouldn’t feel the need to quadruple check every single room, just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. 

The additions and changes wouldn’t make me replace my sentinel. I only use the Helios anyways because of the scanner. Helps me scan new things while trying to dodge bullets. Just wish it could scan allies and such cause having to do those manually leaves me vulnerable. But I guess that’s the challenge of it. If anything it would allow me use my Helios, smeeta kavat, and chesa or sahasa kubrows more evenly. Scanner for codex, charm for more void traces or kuva, retrieve for faster loot farming, and dig for more energy especially on energy reduction sorties. 

Be nice if there was a scanner mod for the Helios that had unlimited scanning when it came to things like plant materials for the silver grove. Some people love to take their time while others need to rush due to other things they do besides playing video games. And of course players making you rush. Basically multitask without slowing everybody else down. 

[KrazyKavatLady]

On 2018-10-20 at 6:22 AM, TheRealShade said:

I feel like it's time for companion abilities to be a baseline just like warframe ones. We no longer have to slot in our abilities on warframes, it's time pets do the same.

Oh gods, ya'll had to mod for abilities?

Glad I wasn't playing back then! 

[5H4DE]

1 hour ago, OriZulo said:

Oh gods, ya'll had to mod for abilities?

Glad I wasn't playing back then! 

Yup, and every ability had ranks dictating their strength, you could run with no abilities at all if you felt like it, or you could run with only the relevant ones( Loki with only Invisibility and Radial Disarm, Excalibur with only Radial Blind/Javelin)

[Julian_Skies]

On 2018-10-21 at 12:40 PM, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

This ^

I mainly use Smeeta for Kuva, precisely for the reasons stated, and to farm gems and fish in PoE, also for the same reasons. I'll always use sentinels as well, and I await eagerly for what DE is going to release for Shade, Dethcube and Diriga. Those are the only 3 that still don't have a cool simaris mod to make them more viable and specialized.

Actually, Shade just got Ambush (+125% weapon damage when breaking it's stealth) and Dethcube got Energy Generator (makes an energy orb after 10 assists)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 2018-10-20 at 2:42 PM, K9Fenrir said:

The reason people don't use Kubrows is not the lack of vacuum. If that were true, then no one would run Smeetas either. Yet they do, purely because of the sheer usefulness of their utility. The reason lies elsewhere. Here's how I see it:

 Let's be real here, Smeetas don't have any useful utility you can rely upon. Charm is random and has next to no effect on the gameplay. You can't build around it, you can't do anything with it. All it does is it sometimes gives you additional crit against enemies you already oneshot. 

 Sure, you can get some Kuva, that you gonna blow in a roll or two anyway. Pull that lever one more time if you're lucky. Otherwise, Smeeta is just as useless as every other pet with a single exception of Huras... maybe.

Edited October 26, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 2018-10-20 at 2:42 PM, K9Fenrir said:

And now we get Fetch. What am I supposed to do with it? If I want to put it on my Kubrow, it's either going to die more or not do any damage, in which case I either have something that has to be revived every 20 seconds or a nerfed Carrier that runs around and gets itself killed because it's not doing enough damage. Again, why would I use it? The only reason I can think of is that I #*!%ing love Kubrows and I use them just because they are adorable.

And that's why this game needs a proper warframe-based passive UV. No mods, no BS. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

9 hours ago, Julian_Skies said:

Actually, Shade just got Ambush (+125% weapon damage when breaking it's stealth) and Dethcube got Energy Generator (makes an energy orb after 10 assists)

Yes, I saw it, and I feel a bit bittersweet about it... I don't know why, but I don't know how to feel about DE making Shade's flaw into a feature. I'll have to test it out when it arrives on consoles, but hey, a lot better than nothing still!

As for Dethcube's I didn't know. I also have to look into it, specially since I'm a energy hungry caster-type... I always thought Dethcube would be the hardest to specialize since it's theme is, well... Deth... And for "Deth" we already have Warframes, so I like the idea of energy support on my deadly abilities. Though I don't really have an idea of how good "10 assists" is.

Edited October 26, 2018 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[Julian_Skies]

On 2018-10-26 at 4:46 PM, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

Yes, I saw it, and I feel a bit bittersweet about it... I don't know why, but I don't know how to feel about DE making Shade's flaw into a feature. I'll have to test it out when it arrives on consoles, but hey, a lot better than nothing still!

As for Dethcube's I didn't know. I also have to look into it, specially since I'm a energy hungry caster-type... I always thought Dethcube would be the hardest to specialize since it's theme is, well... Deth... And for "Deth" we already have Warframes, so I like the idea of energy support on my deadly abilities. Though I don't really have an idea of how good "10 assists" is.

Depending on weapon chosen, it's quite good. An 'assist' means any attack hitting the target. So with something like a Sweeper with punchthrough it'll scatter bullets all over hitting a few at a time giving a bunch of assists.

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, Julian_Skies said:

Depending on weapon chosen, it's quite good. An 'assist' means any attack hitting the target. So with something like a Sweeper with punchthrough it'll scatter bullets all over hitting a few at a time giving a bunch of assists.

The stinger built for max multishot, projectile speed and punchthrought with an accuracy decreaser mod also works wonders.