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How DE punishes us for using Operator mode


R4GD0LL
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With the current edition of Operator mode (What is it, 3.0 now?) there's an enormous array of goodies for us to choose from. A healing dash, passive abilities to instantly pick up allies, the ability to leave patches of fire, ball lightning, combo augmentation, and more. 

Except, in a lot of ways, it feels like DE doesn't actually want us using them all that much. 

I came to a puzzling realization that, if I intend to grind out Madurai focus with any kind of efficiency, I need to be in Vazarin for team play, or melee Naramon for solo, and NEVER leave my frame. Actually, all the operator schools are like this. If I'm in operator mode, I suffer a bunch of disadvantages. Low armor, low health, no regenerating shields, low mobility, sentinels don't pick up loot, and while you have a few very interesting abilities your resource bars for them are REALLY restricted.

I have a proposal, although a second, much less useful and interesting one follows later. How about we get a 3% conversion of mastery to focus while in operator mode for the school we've selected as our current primary? I recognize this could get very rapidly out of hand, but it comes with a risk: If we die in operator mode and get sent back to our frame, we lose all the focus accumulated up to that point because of the feedback. Risk, reward, and the ability to exercise some REALLY sweet abilities on a regular basis. I would love to see operators starting to really use Madurai fire trails and fireballs, or stealth around with Unairu. People don't do it because it's currently perceived as a waste of time and effort; as it stands it almost feels like everyone waits for someone else to be the sucker and go operator mode every time a Kuva guardian spawns just so they don't have to deal with it. It feels bad, because a lot of potential cool is being lost and wasted as it feels like there's not just no reward, but only punishment for doing it. 

Why not reward us for using the abilities? Despite what I proposed above, it doesn't even have to be the same rate as a fully decked out frame with lenses, I'd be content with a 1.0% conversion (iirc, the small focus lenses are 1.25%). Although if you're going with the lesser focus yield, then losing it as described above would be an even bigger punishment and probably result in even fewer people being willing to risk using Operator mode, so yeah. 

These are my thoughts, that's my idea, this is me signing off. 

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From where we seem to be going with the main story, I'm expecting a lot of changes to operators in the foreseeable future. They're acting proper badass in the quests now and if we get Tau in the next couple of years I think that they'll be really useful there. If that happens then maybe we'll have changes to the focus system and how all their abilities work.

Edited by iLightning13
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Tenno mode, is draining to max for sure; but you can eventually get them to around the same durability or effectiveness of mid starchart to bonking through late starchart with the Magus options; Vitruos, amps, and Focus waybounds. I would aim at just getting the focus as you regularly play; just make sure to grind out enough Eidolon lens for your main 5 loadouts and then only use them for a year or so. Running Eidolon hunts for their Brilliant and Radiant Shards can help speed this up as well. Overall, I feel this is the beginning of sorts for this particular version of Focus - 2.5 was the last DE themselves called it - and am hopeful that further Plains areas will flesh it out.

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I just wish they would fix the glitch where the camera can sometimes be fixed in a certain spot when you switch in and out of operator. Same for the one where you can't use your abilities and look like your intentionally standing around not reviving people when all you can do is shoot if anything--unless you jump into a body of water or bottomless pit. 

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For my part, I want to punish DE for implementing lame angsty teens that angstily control what before were badass entities of mysterious motives. 
Champions of balance, guided by a mysterious entity known only as The Lotus, whose motives were also mysterious. These badass entities, warframes, trained, collected resources to empower themselves, ran shadow ops, or went on murder sprees guided by The Lotus with the supposed grand objective of "maintaining the balance", allowing no faction to gain complete control...

Operators could've been a meta abstraction: Us, the players, controlling and giving conscience to these beings through "the Void". The Void could've been another meta-concept, in that it's like our computer, the internet, our world to Warframe's world. None of this would've been mentioned outright, but alluded to.

Focus schools could've just been added as "ability 5 + passives", like it was before The War Within, which was fine. The important things in Warframe would've been The Warframes... Amps could've come into play as well, like to enhance this "5" ability.

Ah well... lame angsty anime teens it is then... 

 

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1 hour ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Personally my only problem with them is that I want to use them for a bit of fun. But the effort to level them just feels like too much for that sort of thing.

Just do what I did, toss some lenses on your gear and forget operators are a thing. Then every few weeks to a month look up and be all "Oh I have a bunch of points to spend". Spend those points and go right back to forgetting your Operator is a thing. At least that was my coping mechanism. 

I think I have four or five waybounds unlocked now, which is honestly four or five waybounds more than I thought I would ever unlock. It's still a sub par system IMO but as long as you push it off to a far back burner and kinda forget about it, it isn't super terrible. ............It could use an overhaul. 

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Just now, Oreades said:

Just do what I did, toss some lenses on your gear and forget operators are a thing. Then every few weeks to a month look up and be all "Oh I have a bunch of points to spend". Spend those points and go right back to forgetting your Operator is a thing. At least that was my coping mechanism. 

I think I have four or five waybounds unlocked now, which is honestly four or five waybounds more than I thought I would ever unlock. It's still a sub par system IMO but as long as you push it off to a far back burner and kinda forget about it, it isn't super terrible. ............It could use an overhaul. 

This ^

I'm tired of Eidolon hunting (got burned out a few months back and never returned) so I'm just farming passively. At best try to max out your favorite school first so you can always rely on that one, and let the rest come naturaly.

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I don't think I've done a mission for a while where I didn't use my operator for something. It might just be a subconscious desire to get something out of all the grinding I've done to max out all my focus trees completely, but my operator always has their use. If I get in a sticky situation I quickly tap 5 and spam my amp's secondary fire (shraksun scaffold) to knockdown crowds and clear out some enemies. The only trees I never really use for anything starchart is Naramon and Madurai because they are so niche.

Zenurik I use for energy and some cc with the void mode pull and electric orb, Vazarin if I don't want to play a healer/shield frame in difficult pub sorties and Unairu for a similar use with the invis for allies and damage reduction.

The investment is the only issue I can see people having with operators, it takes a long time and a fair bit of grind, but by the time you've maxed it out you would have nearly, if not a complete set of every arcane (if you almost exclusively do Tricaps) which is a nice bonus for frame power.

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1 hour ago, More-L said:

The only trees I never really use for anything starchart is Naramon and Madurai because they are so niche

I've actually maxed the fireball and void blast abilities in Madurai. A headshot crit with a fully charged fireball does 17k on level 60 grineer rangers, not awful damage. 

edit: I guess my point is, there's a lot of really good operator abilities that feel in line with the flavor of "Tenno are REALLY powerful" but it feels like there's no room to use what they gave us. 

Edited by R4GD0LL
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Just now, R4GD0LL said:

I've actually maxed the fireball and void blast abilities in Madurai. A headshot crit with a fully charged fireball does 17k on level 60 grineer rangers, not awful damage. 

Yeah but my frame's weapons are more effective and faster than spending 1-2 sec to charge up a skillshot for mostly single target damage. Fun, but niche.

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2 minutes ago, More-L said:

Yeah but my frame's weapons are more effective and faster than spending 1-2 sec to charge up a skillshot for mostly single target damage. Fun, but niche.

It has either some punch through or a smal aoe, not sure which. Suspect it's aoe because secondary targets take noticeably less damage, around 3-4k, but it still sets things on fire, so...

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1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

My problem with operators is the lack of weapons.

 

When I said guns, I actually meant guns, as in those things that spew lead at people and go "pew pew - brrt - pew pew pew", not some damn laser pointer.

The newest amp prism is actually very much like a gun, probably the best all round combat prism and decently effective. But you have a point, hopefully with melee comes better weaponry.

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18 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

My problem with operators is the lack of weapons.

 

When I said guns, I actually meant guns, as in those things that spew lead at people and go "pew pew - brrt - pew pew pew", not some damn laser pointer.

It would be interesting if you have tenno based weapons to utilize when out of the frame.  Honestly, I thought that's what the zaw's were going to be, but they weren't.

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3 minutes ago, WRESinn said:

It would be interesting if you have tenno based weapons to utilize when out of the frame.  Honestly, I thought that's what the zaw's were going to be, but they weren't.

If you're going to do more than amps- which thematically is kinda silly because Tenno are supposed to be about the space magic, not "armed like a level 0 warframe but slower, weaker, and less damaging"- then you may as well have Tenno body armor. And Tenno personal shields. 

Not advocating this, mind you. 

Although a universal school, available to and usable by every Tenno regardless of primary school, might be something that could give Tenno more speed, more armor, have to purchase void blast and void beam, etc. which would add more variety to out of frame gameplay. I find it a bit weird, the unbound nodes, which feel a lot like trying to pad out the amount of focus needed to fully realize a Tenno without actually adding new content. And force players to spend a lot of time in Plains of Eidolon at night to farm up the eidolon shards. 

My $0.02

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4 hours ago, R4GD0LL said:

How about we get a 3% conversion of mastery to focus while in operator mode for the school we've selected

You can use a lens on your operator and acquire focus with him/her same as you do with your frame.

Not really very efficient I assume, but it's an option ..

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)xtharbadx said:

You can use a lens on your operator and acquire focus with him/her same as you do with your frame.

Not really very efficient I assume, but it's an option ..

Is that something available only to PS4 players? I'm PC

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8 minutes ago, R4GD0LL said:

If you're going to do more than amps- which thematically is kinda silly because Tenno are supposed to be about the space magic, not "armed like a level 0 warframe but slower, weaker, and less damaging"- then you may as well have Tenno body armor. And Tenno personal shields. 

Not advocating this, mind you. 

Although a universal school, available to and usable by every Tenno regardless of primary school, might be something that could give Tenno more speed, more armor, have to purchase void blast and void beam, etc. which would add more variety to out of frame gameplay. I find it a bit weird, the unbound nodes, which feel a lot like trying to pad out the amount of focus needed to fully realize a Tenno without actually adding new content. And force players to spend a lot of time in Plains of Eidolon at night to farm up the eidolon shards. 

My $0.02

I'm not even entirely for the idea of weaponizing Tenno.  I just think it would be interesting.  Personally, if I was going to fix the uselessness of the Tenno in the field then I'd first up their laser power to major damage under the logic that we're blasting the enemy with raw, unaltered void energy.  It should do more than a bee sting.  To balance this I'd keep the Tenno frail like they are now, but add in a time limit because we aren't running around as the Tenno but instead as a projection of our Tenno selves.  The projection should drain the energy very slowly and when the energy runs out (or the projection gets killed) we get returned to the frames and can't exit again for a cool down period.  Basically turn the Tenno into a mobile omega laser to devastate with, but have it be non-sustainable.

"If the tenno are so powerful then why even have the frames at all?"  Well, the Tenno are frail and have to exist in a controlled environment to stay alive.  That's why they don't go planet side at all.

I could make stuff up all day, but it means nothing.  I don't think DE is going to change anything or use our ideas.

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4 hours ago, R4GD0LL said:

Low armor, low health, no regenerating shields, low mobility, sentinels don't pick up loot, and while you have a few very interesting abilities your resource bars for them are REALLY restricted.

First, most of these problems gets solved by upgrading passive skills from different focus school. Second, grinding focus with operator would be really inefficient even if there was 3% focus conversion in operator mode. I would suggest going eidolon capture and all your focus schools would be maxed out in no time. And before you start saying you need some godly riven or something - you don't; there are stages of eidolon fights where you get to learn about how to fight each one which is what really matters. Grinding means patience and patience means it takes a long time. Take it slow. I hope it helps you, good luck.

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