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So with Atlas Deluxe coming Perhaps his kit could use a touch up to keep him up to date.


KillaJoke1
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Atlas as it stands seems like a great warframe. He has a fun concept and a great loop/ synergy between his first ability and third ability. But when I hear about him this combo is sorta the only thing that get's mentioned. It's the only thing people seem to build him for when it comes to guides on him or how to have fun with him. And while these two abilities are great on their own it would be nice if his 2nd and fourth ability got some love too. 

Now the rubble mechanic is great. It adds a fun goal much like nidus and his stacks a mechanic/ idea that I truly love. But I do feel like maybe it could extend further into his other abilities like rubble could improve the damage of his bulwark when it rolls into enemies. and maybe that enemies petrified are more subsebtle to his abilities such as the bulwark roll and the damage of the golems. And at the end of roll when it crashes into a wall it leaves a pile of rubble based on the damage it had dealt to enemies petrified. Just more things that kinda help the rubble economy and spread out the gameplay options a bit you know? 

But as it stands right now a heavy gunner at around level 90 can chew through a bulwark fairly easily and the damage the boulder does isn't enough to get past a level 90 corrupted crewmans shields. And these are enemies we may possibly be facing often elite alerts. His first ability scales so nicely and his third is really good CC. And in terms of how things behave conceptually there's so much potential for him to have further value, it's just the math that kinda feels like it's holding him back and a lack of full on synergy between his other two skills.  Maybe some form of UI that also reports the status of your rumblers as well that let you know how they are fairing and whether they are close to expiration. 

Hopefully this doesn't get taken as saying Atlas is in a bad place/ he isn't a good frame. I'm more so asking because he is a frame that has interesting theme/ kit and fun abilities that get overshadowed and have trouble keeping up in the game currently when you look past his one punch gameplay. Other frames are getting tweaks currently such as Nyx and titania which is great. They needed it. But with the new atlas Skin on the horizon I thought maybe it might be worth bringing some attention to him aswell before the skin drops as it did peak some interest in him.

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8 minutes ago, geo223 said:

So what would you do about his fourth? I was thinking let it be that he like targets an enemy and they turn into a golem and the golems health and damage scale off the enemy level.

I'd be fine with it scaling off our rubble amount. They seem to take a decent beating from trying him out solo in elite alerts and could occasionally score a few kills. They even have some ranged capability after watching them.  Maybe have them work similar to the exalted abilities and take our melee weapon into account like our one does? If we need a stat stick for our one, why not apply it to our four since they seem to follow a similar philosophy of bashing our enemies to death?  But that was kinda where I was pushing more for the idea of petrified enemies taking more damage from our stone abilities and creating a bit of a layering effect.

 

Like the way I feel atlas should play is like you cast a bullwark as enemies charge you, cast your three to buff your wall and turn them into stone and kick down your wall and roll your enemies down. Then at the end when it crashes into a wall you pick up your rubble. Your golem buddies picking up stragglers that didn't get picked off by your combo but still got turned into stone. 

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Reduce the cost of his 3. It’s far too expensive for a CC ability that’s only a cone.

Massively Increase his Rubble cap.

Allow Atlas to charge rumblers at the cost of Rubble to increase their damage. Remove their duration timer.

 

Yeah... maybe his 2 and three should swap spaces even given the utility your 3 has and how costly it can be. 

I'm not sure he needs a higher rubble cap, I just feel like it decays quickly. But I'm also someone who doesn't use him super often. I'm playing with him today to get a better feel to see whether I'd want the skin or not. 

As four the duration timer, it does seem odd to have a duration timer and for them to have a health pool. It does exasperate how often you're casting your three to pair with his 1. I always see builds plopping both efficiency mods in.

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I would like to see his Rumbler PvE augment get redone to actually be something else or make it worth using a Titanic Rumbler. His regular Rumblers unaugmented is actually far better than the Titanic Rumbler, which is odd and a waste of a mod slot.

A rework on his Power 2 would be ideal. Maybe have Atlas punch the ground and force a stalactite wall to protrude upward to cause enemies to be damaged in a frontal puncture damage AoE. It will still leave a rock wall with some verticality added onto it for aesthetic and technical appeal, and will still create a rolling rock if recasted on it. The rock wall/stalactite will still synergize with Petrify in buffing its defense, and it would still behave the same if augmented with the Power 2 augment. However, an added synergy with his Landslide would be if, when targeted with the ability, Atlas will punch the rock wall/stalactite and will spread rubble projectiles in a frontal cone dealing impact and puncture damage to enemies in Atlas’ LoS.

If these changes go into effect, I would be super happy about it. Atlas needs some means to make him into a more pronounced Earthbender that creates and breaks **** unto his enemies.

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When melee 3.0 removes the combo counter atlas will need a huge damage buff to counter this loss.  he is very reliant on the counter.

Good time to add in some exalted knuckles (and give them 500% bonus damage to account for a dispo 5 riven)

I would love to see more use of Rubble and some additions to his kit.

 

Khora being able to crit reliably and having more range with better 2 3 and 4 makes atlas simply a clunky, lower damage khora.  while he is a superior tank and can go immune this is arguably countered by Khora's great Control skills.

At equal counter Khora with a crit riven (and status chance stripping armor) makes atlas somewhat lackluster as levels increase.

 

so yes to all these posts!   + exalted knuckles

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56 minutes ago, Tatersail said:

Good time to add in some exalted knuckles

I don't think Exalted weapons are the answer to everything. They are all so boring and make the gameplay for those frames just button-spam killing.

 In his case, I'd actually be fine with him having exalted fists if it's replacing his 1. Obviously it would be much weaker than the Exalted 4's but could open up unique combos that interact with the rest of his kit and allow for additional mechanics including rubble generation.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I don't think Exalted weapons are the answer to everything. They are all so boring and make the gameplay for those frames just button-spam killing.

I am not sure what this actually means in the grand scheme of things. Should we remove melee and guns because they are "button-spam killing"? Suggesting that there should be a bit more to 'exalted class" abilities isn't something I wouldn't equate to boring. They are abilities that fit the theme of the frame and they better flow with the games pacing because they integrate with other systems. While not all abilities need to be made into 'exalted class" abilities, if the ability in question would fit into that system better; they may as well do it.

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15 hours ago, Tatersail said:

Khora being able to crit reliably and having more range with better 2 3 and 4 makes atlas simply a clunky, lower damage khora.  while he is a superior tank and can go immune this is arguably countered by Khora's great Control skills.

At equal counter Khora with a crit riven (and status chance stripping armor) makes atlas somewhat lackluster as levels increase.

You mentioned it, Khora doesn't go invincible when she uses whipclaw. Khora's skills are also hardly better than Atlas, arguably, because unlike Atlas she doesn't really have a reasonable dump stat you can do away with and hope to be successful. Also, Khora doesn't have a second combo counter than gives damage multipliers and cost reduction to her first skill, unlike Atlas.

Also, factoring Rivens into an argument is hardly the way to go.

I'm saying no to Exalted Knuckes for Atlas. Using his 1 as just damage without caring about the AoE ragdoll or invincibility frame just isn't cutting it. That and Path of Statues is very much a thing for some light CC.

 

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7 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I am not sure what this actually means in the grand scheme of things. Should we remove melee and guns because they are "button-spam killing"? Suggesting that there should be a bit more to 'exalted class" abilities isn't something I wouldn't equate to boring. They are abilities that fit the theme of the frame and they better flow with the games pacing because they integrate with other systems. While not all abilities need to be made into 'exalted class" abilities, if the ability in question would fit into that system better; they may as well do it.

In the grand scheme of things, adding abilities that are just re-skinned weapons that provide additional methods of power creep doesn't contribute anything to the game. Weapons are already abundant in the game, and abilities should be providing a uniqueness to a frame that differentiates its playstyle from things that every other frame also has access to. 

Punching things is incorporated into Atlas' kit. So it is fitting, sure. But how would giving him an exalted weapon make it more fitting or more unique than what Landslide already provides? If anything it would literally just be removing one of his abilities in place of an additional weapon slot. And that additional weapon slot, like with all Exalted weapons, actually removes the other weapons from access while it's active which gives you even less options than you had without it.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

In the grand scheme of things, adding abilities that are just re-skinned weapons that provide additional methods of power creep doesn't contribute anything to the game. Weapons are already abundant in the game, and abilities should be providing a uniqueness to a frame that differentiates its playstyle from things that every other frame also has access to. 

Punching things is incorporated into Atlas' kit. So it is fitting, sure. But how would giving him an exalted weapon make it more fitting or more unique than what Landslide already provides? If anything it would literally just be removing one of his abilities in place of an additional weapon slot. And that additional weapon slot, like with all Exalted weapons, actually removes the other weapons from access while it's active which gives you even less options than you had without it.

Power creep from exalted class abilities? Generally speaking, outside maybe Peacemaker, all the exalted weapons are not the strongest tiered weapons even if they are powerful. There are a number of arguments as to why exalted class abilities should be stronger (though it isn't entirely necessary) but they generally fall of deaf ears. But what they do do however is give an ability (for people that prefer power-based combat; partly because it combines systems) an avenue to do well longer within the theme of the frame. I don't particularly think Landslide needs to be exalted class (it technically is exalted-lite or better due to riven access already) with how his current kit is but it by definition is already a "button-spamy" ability. If it was turned into exalted class nothing would be missed (other than perhaps riven access). And if you want to use your full compliment of equipment you can toggle the ability (like DE's supposed original intent was); you are suppose to get a gimmick with the ability for playing into the theme, that is part of the point.

With that, personally, I rather they swap Rumblers and Landslide and roll Landslide functionality into an exalted state that is like his Rumbler conclave augment, Rumbled. There isn't a weapon in the game that mimics how that augment works. Realistically they could just make a PvE variation of the augment and add the limitations on it as needed. Though Rumblers already have an augment meaning he would be the first with two (as far as PvE goes); while just swapping them could keep the functionality of their respective augments already.

But like I said earlier, I could only agree that exalted class abilities do more. They all currently have their own gimmicks, some better than others, that can be further played around with in modding (like augments; actual augments in this case which most weapons do not do). Of which, Wukong is probably in the most need (at least he is on the 'rework' radar I suppose) of revisions to his exalted ability. Honestly the problem with his gimmick is that they capped it way too low. Riven range melee can do so much better and with the reduction on hitting through walls, DE could probably allow him to build up that range much more. Then I have various gripes with Valkyr (mostly the passive invincibility) and Excalibur could have a tone adjustment on wave functionality (but also gimmick no other weapons do). But I also would like more information on how melee 3.0 would change the systems. Ivara, Mesa, and Titania are positioned fairly well as far as their exalteds go (though maybe some work with the systems around them; like a way to respawn Titania's butterflies without toggling).

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1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

With that, personally, I rather they swap Rumblers and Landslide and roll Landslide functionality into an exalted state that is like his Rumbler conclave augment, Rumbled. There isn't a weapon in the game that mimics how that augment works. Realistically they could just make a PvE variation of the augment and add the limitations on it as needed. Though Rumblers already have an augment meaning he would be the first with two (as far as PvE goes); while just swapping them could keep the functionality of their respective augments already.

To be honest, i've been looking forwards to get rumbled in PvE ever since the augment got created. Limitations would most likely not be needed given how do abilities scale in PvE added to the non-existent ways to modify such attributes in conclave (technically you can only increase power strenght, but only for a few seconds and it requires you to to hit 50 hp or less). 

With that out of the way, this idea has all my support since Titanic rumbler is lackluster (you get 1.5x the health of a normal rumble, 1.35x the damage on one of them, moves slower than a single rumbler while reducing the amount of attention focus points for enemy AI and reducing the area covered by rumblers on death; which is basically a straight downgrade to the base skill imo), it's basically a pet with limited duration but without any kind of utility other than being there and doing its thing, it's not interactive, it's just a "cast & forget" ability creating a new entity with its own AI and no way to at least be partially controlled like zephyr's tornados (one of them moves towards your crosshair), shadows of the dead (going away and recasting summons them closer to you) or Venari (with 3 precepts and the ability to be directed towards a specific target).

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Sorry @Datam4ss but rivens exist in the game so min max builds get compared against min max builds.

Its like comparing frames without prime mods or umbral mods. they are in the game, they are part of the game...

 

I use this on Atlas, Riven is 320% melee damage 172% electric damage (yea not min maxed using 242% impact riven)

unknown.png 

 

with khora I use;

khoraexalted.png

The 180% crit chance 172% crit damage riven means almost every attack crits (yes not quite 100%) but Accumulating whipclaw adds the same as 350% power strength, I don't even need power strength from umbral intensify, I only have it for some heal ticks on objectives and a little run speed...    https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Accumulating_Whipclaw

with all the damage bonus's onto crits and the corrosive damage type weight Khora all but 1 shots even bonus armor sortie 3 heavy gunners or napalms  in a single hit.

Meanwhile atlas is just rag dolling them.

If you take both into Kuva survival past an hour or so, Atlas really starts to struggle on damage, especially with such short range on his skills.  Meanwhile khora is still just wrecking groups and her raw damage and extra range makes her not need the invincibility cause she can kill enemies before any real return fire hits.   I don't even use drifting contact on her until I get to about level 200 mobs... cause she is so strong.

 

Raw dps throughput is a major factor.

yes atlas does bring other things to the table.   But I really struggle to want to play him when I can just hop on khora for the same mission and bring so much more. I have to want to play atlas just for the sake of playing him.

I did say "Arguably"   🙂   and you could argue all day, but Accumulating whipclaw is massive and crit makes khora win in any dps contest you can think of.

 

 

 

anyways waaay off-topic just so I can complain about khora stealing atlas's main thing.

 

Be interesting to make him a powerhouse dps with his other skills and move away from melee punching.

Perhaps make his rock wall scale from melee weapons like his landslide.  and suddenly you have a ball of DOOM rolling through corridors to the shocked cry's of salty saryns.

You could even go for the pure afk builds (and I know de will never do this) and make rumblers damage scale from the amazing melee mods that landslide uses....  Rumblers doing 100k damage!  the afk defenses!

 

I mean venari heals you to full with every attack because of https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Hunter_Recovery, can be set to disarm and gets all the amazing kavat mods like https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Hunter_Synergy https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Sharpened_Claws...  Rumblers don't stand up, perhaps make rumblers the exalted pet and allow them to use kubrow mods?

 

You could mess about with synergies and have rumblers focus fire on enemies turned to stone with a 600% damage bonus to petrified targets? 

Could also have rock walls absorb all damage and morph into additional rumblers if you cast 4 while targeting the wall, keeping all the absorbed damage as bonus stats.

 

I really wanted atlas to be more like the Avatar tv series rock benders.

 

Edited by Tatersail
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