Arbitrations need a revisit (already)

[Bural_Puncher]

-Existence of Invulnerability drones that cannot be dealt with abilities is a bad idea. Instead of doing that, why not put a mini-boss coupled with increased spawn rates?  Having no revives already make players think twice about picking a squishy frame they may have wanted to try out and yet here comes another hurdle of where enemies can completely ignore any means of Crowd control to approach and shoot you down. Probably in order to compensate for this, the spawn rate seems to have slowed down, but that just makes the game mode even less interesting (less enemies to kill and dodge around = less fun!). *I also have some bones to pick with interaction between the Drones vs Cataclysm... I get it, you can switch to Operator to kill the drones, but still... what the heck? Limbo is yet again a massive troll.

-Stat bonus is a bit limited. 300% strength no matter what? there are some frames that doesn't need so much strength and would have wanted the bonus to go somewhere else. Why can't we just CHOOSE which stat to be increased? Besides, what's the point when enemies are downright invulnerable from your abilities half the time? how about switching all that to other stats, like flat armor or health bonus? that might be fun, too.

-Rewards are a problem. it's supposed to be an "end-game", yet you give us MORE endo. Endo has a hard limit of how much you need them before you run out of any means to use them until another set of mods come out. Considering Most people who are capable of staying in Arbitrations for more than just 40 minutes at a time probably have most of their Primed Mods in the Arsenal maxed or nearly-maxed already. And no, I'm not about to go out of my way to purchase all the Primed faction damage mods to max, just because I'm running out of mods to max with all the Endo I'm gonna be getting from playing Arbitration.

-Vendors need more items... Relic packs would have been an easy choice. more mods or exclusive cosmetics?

 

[CoolDudeMcCool]

4 minutes ago, IDKismyname said:

Limbo is yet again a massive troll.

Massive troll potential, not inherently a troll

[Joe_Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, IDKismyname said:

-Existence of Invulnerability drones that cannot be dealt with abilities is a bad idea. Instead of doing that, why not put a mini-boss coupled with increased spawn rates?  Having no revives already make players think twice about picking a squishy frame they may have wanted to try out and yet here comes another hurdle of where enemies can completely ignore any means of Crowd control to approach and shoot you down. Probably in order to compensate for this, the spawn rate seems to have slowed down, but that just makes the game mode even less interesting (less enemies to kill and dodge around = less fun!). *I also have some bones to pick with interaction between the Drones vs Cataclysm... I get it, you can switch to Operator to kill the drones, but still... what the heck? Limbo is yet again a massive troll.

-Stat bonus is a bit limited. 300% strength no matter what? there are some frames that doesn't need so much strength and would have wanted the bonus to go somewhere else. Why can't we just CHOOSE which stat to be increased? Besides, what's the point when enemies are downright invulnerable from your abilities half the time? how about switching all that to other stats, like flat armor or health bonus? that might be fun, too.

-Rewards are a problem. it's supposed to be an "end-game", yet you give us MORE endo. Endo has a hard limit of how much you need them before you run out of any means to use them until another set of mods come out. Considering Most people who are capable of staying in Arbitrations for more than just 40 minutes at a time probably have most of their Primed Mods in the Arsenal maxed or nearly-maxed already. And no, I'm not about to go out of my way to purchase all the Primed faction damage mods to max, just because I'm running out of mods to max with all the Endo I'm gonna be getting from playing Arbitration.

-Vendors need more items... Relic packs would have been an easy choice. more mods or exclusive cosmetics?

- The Invulnerability Drones
I agree they need a tweaking, right now I've seen a lot of players just use an Ignis Wraith to spray and pray (Myself included). Others use the Zenistar as that can just be thrown down for 60 seconds and it'll kill the drones pretty easily. However I currently don't have any suggestions myself for them, but they are a decent addition to the mode, but it's going to be a very touchy area because they are pretty much the only reason these modes aren't heavily cheesed.

However I did have a funny idea about reworking the entire mode and instead of the Invulnerability drones we had nothing but the elite mobs. Like every mob was a Nox / Eximus / Bursa / Ancient with their effects & stats increased by 100% of their bases stats. Now that would be fun & hell.

- Stat bonus.
I'd like to see more variety in stat changes, like range increase, efficiency increase etc; 

- Rewards
They aren't really that much of a problem in my opinion however the requirement of needing stars I'd like to see the 'harder' mobs like Nox / Eximus / Bursas etc; have a small chance to drop ayatan stars.

- Vendors
I can't agree more with you, what happened to the cosmetic that grew the more you did Elite Alerts? Relic packs! Love to see those.

 

[Joe_Barbarian]

4 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Massive troll potential, not inherently a troll

You can be banished.

You can be banished.

Limbo yelling IM HELPING!

*rolls*

Limbo yells LET ME PROTECT YOU!

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Just now, Joe_Barbarian said:

You can be banished.

You can be banished.

Limbo yelling IM HELPING!

*rolls*

Limbo yells LET ME PROTECT YOU!

It's okay, I have the Haven augment! I can be Frost and Trinity all at once!

does anyone use that augment

[Teksorbkyva]

They've already said they have a boatload of changes coming to Arbitration, its just that between them working on it and Fortuna, they haven't got all of it ready.

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 minute ago, Teksorbkyva said:

They've already said they have a boatload of changes coming to Arbitration, its just that between them working on it and Fortuna, they haven't got all of it ready.

I've not seen this, you got a source on that handy?

[Bural_Puncher]

5 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

- The Invulnerability Drones
I agree they need a tweaking, right now I've seen a lot of players just use an Ignis Wraith to spray and pray (Myself included). Others use the Zenistar as that can just be thrown down for 60 seconds and it'll kill the drones pretty easily. However I currently don't have any suggestions myself for them, but they are a decent addition to the mode, but it's going to be a very touchy area because they are pretty much the only reason these modes aren't heavily cheesed.

However I did have a funny idea about reworking the entire mode and instead of the Invulnerability drones we had nothing but the elite mobs. Like every mob was a Nox / Eximus / Bursa / Ancient with their effects & stats increased by 100% of their bases stats. Now that would be fun & hell.

- Stat bonus.
I'd like to see more variety in stat changes, like range increase, efficiency increase etc; 

- Rewards
They aren't really that much of a problem in my opinion however the requirement of needing stars I'd like to see the 'harder' mobs like Nox / Eximus / Bursas etc; have a small chance to drop ayatan stars.

- Vendors
I can't agree more with you, what happened to the cosmetic that grew the more you did Elite Alerts? Relic packs! Love to see those.

 

Switching out all mobs to elite mobs being a Nox and Bursas... O man I could definitely see the fun in that XD cheers and let's cross fingers.

[Joe_Barbarian]

8 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

It's okay, I have the Haven augment! I can be Frost and Trinity all at once!

does anyone use that augment

Just looked at it for the first time... 

No

[SneakyErvin]

Drones arent too bad imo, aslong as they fix the bugs with them getting stuck in walls etc.

I'd like to see bonus stats removed, no need for noob traps in end-game intended content. People should come prepared to begin with and not jump a wagon based on pointless bonus stats. Adding more stats will completely wreck certain builds, so it wont be a straight up bonus for some. It can really ruin it for someone that wants to play frame A in mission B but cant because the +300% duration breaks the build. It is better it stays as it is now, a bonus to certain frames no matter the build (sorry speedva I know it sucks for you), or even better if it simply gets removed.

DE mistook end-game for endo-game. Easy mistake to make and it would explain the current state of arbitrations and the extremely lackluster rewards and drop rates. Would not mind seeing 2/3 of the ayatans being replaced with kuva, stars and possibly other items.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

I like the drone's existence as it removes focus off ability use to cover for everything.  I understand it can be annoying having to switch off a channeling power to deal with them, but I like the forced adaptation of doing something different that what we have all got too comfortable doing.  I kinda want to see more of that kinda stuff in Warframe in general.

I can agree that the stat bonus could use a little rework as Strength isn't great for every frame.  Although, that one Revenant mission where I had 33 Mesmer Skin stacks and instant Danse death was awesome...

I can also agree that the rewards are a little lacking at the moment. While endo is fine, and I like the bump in challenge, I can understand more mercenary players getting fed up with all the extras conditions involved with the game mode being a bridge too far without pay worth their time.

I assume that the Hexis vendor will have more stuff in the future as DE figures out what they want to do with it. 

[TheGrimCorsair]

3 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I've not seen this, you got a source on that handy?

Latest Devstream (118), during the housekeeping section.

The drones aren't invincible in the slightest. For the most part they're very squishy... you just need to shoot them and they go pop to almost anything.

[peterc3]

If only we had things other than the frames to do damage to things. Some manner of propelling tiny pieces of metal at high velocity towards enemies. Oh well, the drones will forever be invincible.

A miniboss and enemies that can just be endlessly CC'd and obliterated by abilities. That would really improve the mode. If you're playing these, you should really have a better grasp of the entire game rather than relying on using just one aspect of your arsenal.

28 minutes ago, IDKismyname said:

Why can't we just CHOOSE which stat to be increased?

Why not just let us choose the frame and weapon we are using and pick the stat to be boosted. And give us more rewards.

[trst]

Arbitration drones (or other similar ability nullification effects) are mandatory for this mode to have any difficulty otherwise Arbitrations would literally be Onslaught with a different coat of paint.

+300% duration or range would be massively exploitable by certain frames and would trivialize the mode (yes even through the drones). Especially since the drones do not spawn frequently until much later rotations and even then you won't see drones covering every single enemy.

I'll agree that the rewards don't look very end-game but people do need to consider that even parts of the "veteran" player base have not done dedicated endo farming prior to Arbitrations to the point of having every mod maxed. Plus it serves as a good dedicated endo farming method (and partial credit farming method). If anything the only rewards that need a looking at are the Vitus Essence rewards.

[Bural_Puncher]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

If only we had things other than the frames to do damage to things. Some manner of propelling tiny pieces of metal at high velocity towards enemies. Oh well, the drones will forever be invincible.

A miniboss and enemies that can just be endlessly CC'd and obliterated by abilities. That would really improve the mode. If you're playing these, you should really have a better grasp of the entire game rather than relying on using just one aspect of your arsenal.

Why not just let us choose the frame and weapon we are using and pick the stat to be boosted. And give us more rewards.

Not saying that Drones make the game unplayable. The fact that the drones make enemies invulnerable to crowd control effects on top of damage is the problem, as some frames' only way of survivability is through crowd control and a LOT of parkour. this wouldn't stop players from picking Banshee in Arbitrations if it wasn't for the fact that you get no revives on top of that. 

It is not difficult, but a very annoying hindrance. it makes the player second guess their choice of frame that they would have wanted to play. 

If the invincibility still allowed crowd control portion of the ability to go through (even with some limits), then no problem.

It's not like the game can't be cheesed just because there is a drone, either. Why play other frames when you can just go Nidus and grind this so-called "end-game" content for Endo, right?

[peterc3]

28 minutes ago, IDKismyname said:

If the invincibility still allowed crowd control portion of the ability to go through (even with some limits), then no problem.

It would remove even the illusion of difficulty.

[butka1998]

1 hour ago, IDKismyname said:

-Existence of Invulnerability drones that cannot be dealt with abilities is a bad idea. Instead of doing that, why not put a mini-boss coupled with increased spawn rates?  Having no revives already make players think twice about picking a squishy frame they may have wanted to try out and yet here comes another hurdle of where enemies can completely ignore any means of Crowd control to approach and shoot you down. Probably in order to compensate for this, the spawn rate seems to have slowed down, but that just makes the game mode even less interesting (less enemies to kill and dodge around = less fun!). *I also have some bones to pick with interaction between the Drones vs Cataclysm... I get it, you can switch to Operator to kill the drones, but still... what the heck? Limbo is yet again a massive troll.

-Stat bonus is a bit limited. 300% strength no matter what? there are some frames that doesn't need so much strength and would have wanted the bonus to go somewhere else. Why can't we just CHOOSE which stat to be increased? Besides, what's the point when enemies are downright invulnerable from your abilities half the time? how about switching all that to other stats, like flat armor or health bonus? that might be fun, too.

-Rewards are a problem. it's supposed to be an "end-game", yet you give us MORE endo. Endo has a hard limit of how much you need them before you run out of any means to use them until another set of mods come out. Considering Most people who are capable of staying in Arbitrations for more than just 40 minutes at a time probably have most of their Primed Mods in the Arsenal maxed or nearly-maxed already. And no, I'm not about to go out of my way to purchase all the Primed faction damage mods to max, just because I'm running out of mods to max with all the Endo I'm gonna be getting from playing Arbitration.

-Vendors need more items... Relic packs would have been an easy choice. more mods or exclusive cosmetics?

 

1. New enemy type is never bad thing and I remember people saying the same about nullifiers when they came out.....

2. That bonus is not there for you to choose its a random roll to entice you to change up your equip for the mission. But I agree that It could rotate between Range, Strenght and Duration (and maybe even efficiency). Yet you shouldnt be able to choose that would make it too easy and ruin the whole "random bonus to entice you" thing.

3. You dont get only ENDO. You get ayatan statues that can be sold or tradet with other players for platinum or something else and there is actually demand for these as they can be turned into endo or used as decoration. So ayatan reward makes complete sense in "end-game". And endo in stock is never a bad thing to be honest when you need it to upgrade new mods or rivens that will come out next time.

4. Im certain they will slowly add more to the vendor. As they do with syndicates and Cetus vendors. I agree its a bit slow but still. They do add new stuff so be patient and it will come eventually.

[Kyoresh]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE mistook end-game for endo-game

actually laughed at this, it just hurts how true that is

[Thaelyn2]

While I won’t pretend to understand the frustration some long time players may feel at getting Endo rewards they don’t have any pressing need for, I will remind them that Arbitrations are available to players who do not have 1000+ hours logged in the game. 

I don’t claim to speak for every such player but I certainly need all the Endo I can get. I know there are other places to get Endo, but thus far none have been as lucrative for me personally as Arbitrations. After three years away from the game I’ve a lot of primed mods to rank up (and even more to purchase when Baro brings them ‘round), umbra and sacrificial mods to max, and many uncommon and rare 10 rank mods sitting at rank 8 or 9 awaiting a better Endo balance on my books. 

 

I freely admit that that my desire for Endo to remain in the arbitration reward pool has the potential to come across as selfish. I ask you, however, is it any less selfish to request it’s removal simply because you don’t personally need it?

[mikakor]

2 hours ago, IDKismyname said:

Considering Most people who are capable of staying in Arbitrations for more than just 40 minutes at a time probably have most of their Primed Mods in the Arsenal maxed or nearly-maxed already

i love how people always assume that. it's always the first thing i see when people say that rewards should be improved. but no. there is people that loves the endo the Arbitration gives. ( i confirm that rewards needs to be better, but maybe in the shop of the Arbiters. i like the endo drop. )

this, is the amount of Primed mod maxed i have.

and THIS, is the number of primed mod i still need to max out. and yet, i can still go in the arbitration for like...  forever. until boredom strikes too hard.

So i think the endo rewards will be pretty useful for me, don't you think?

[Gatanotoah]

The most expensive reward doesn't work on female faces, the mods have a 3% drop chance in a mode that takes forever (40 to 50 minutes for four rounds of defense seems to be the norm for example), the drones are easily cheesed by frames such as Gara with her two and then there's completely bonkers situations like MK1 weapons being in the rotation. Just another addition to the game to mindlessly grind while watching Netflix.

[Kyronz]

They just need to make the new mode have a little challenge..and maybe give rewards, endo is useless for veterans.    The current mode as it is, is so mind dull and boring, people just leave after 10 mins most of the time.