Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

(PS4)randy_lahey__--

Why are people so against riven disposition changes?

Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, (PS4)SteveOMatic said:

If they did this regularly, then it would have been fine.  It would also probably stabilize the riven market instead of the insane prices we see today, but they waited too long and now the pain point is going to be too great.  They'll have to figure something else out or piss of a ton of folks which may cost them $$ and player faith.  They keep mentioning that they need to look at  them, but haven't done anything, and the longer they wait the worse it is.

I personally don't buy Rivens over 100p, so I welcome a change as well.

This is a fair point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play with a weapon/frame/companion until I am somewhat good with that set and then move on to the next. at times ill switch up all with every mission I play.

excal, boltor p, sweeper p, orthos p, are my favorites in this whole entire game along with twin vipers wraith, but after playing with these over months neglecting everything else I've retired those.

I only get rivens when DE give them away in GOTL or log in reward or from a random alert which pops up at times. I rarely do sorties for rivens nor do I do kuva missions  to max the rivens I have. with or without rivens, it wont stop me from finding a niche way of enjoying the tools provided in the game. I do have my likes and dislikes  of everything there is.

pretty soon the ridiculous prices of rivs will be a thing of the past, popular weapons will always be around provided there is a mission type that makes them the meta. rivens and their dispos doesn't make or break the game. all I see rivs does is make more weapons get used than normal just look what it does for snipers, the downside is they are only used in tri/eidolon fights.

we need to get off this road full of many ruts and coast down the smooth highway for a change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some other rivens will sell for 1000+ after change so I don't really see anything changes. A disposition change is welcomed by me nonetheless.

And to DE, you should have never released the damn rivens if all you were going to do was to leave them untouched coz the only thing you have done is breaking the next to non existing balance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, stormy505 said:

The games suffering from plat inflation cause the market has had next to no maintenance done on it. people wouldn't spend so much plat on rivens if they were balenced properly. Although it's not DEs' job to adjust the market. It is there job to balence rivens which would effect the market

There is no plat inflation though, that word is very wrongfully used to describe what is happening.

Rivens are a part of the market as a whole, if we saw an actual inflation we would see raised prices across the board caused by rivens. That simply isnt the case. Also each and every riven is in essence a unique item with it's own independant value. A riven for one specific weapon can range from 50k down to 200 all depending on what stats it has, if it is close to perfect, complete trash with several rerolls or if it is unrolled.

All other items still cost what they did before or have reduced in value. The reduction in value isnt the cause of "plat inflation" (since that would be an ass backwards effect), it is simply a matter of supply and demand. Meme Strike got reduced due to objects/walls blocking melee, Gladiator Vice, Augur Secrets etc. had their value reduced because the supply went up with changes to how bounty drops work. Prime sets have dropped due to a higher supply and lower demand aswell since more and more people have obtained them.

If we had an actual inflation all those items would have had raised costs since there would be more cash circling the market, but that simply isnt what has happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Some other rivens will sell for 1000+ after change so I don't really see anything changes. A disposition change is welcomed by me nonetheless.

And to DE, you should have never released the damn rivens if all you were going to do was to leave them untouched coz the only thing you have done is breaking the next to non existing balance

You do not see problem because you have not spent more than 10,000 on rivens yet, DE will have to be very careful if they are to modify something, money is not toy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So it's players with money/plat deciding for DE now?

The current riven economy is rotten and there is no point in denying it. I would agree with a riven disposition change but that would only mess things up until a new balance would settle with the same insane prices. Long story short, it's useless to change riven disposition if the core of the riven problem is not addressed. The current prices of meta rivens are such because they are perceived as "be all end all", no point is using the same weapon if someone can deal 10 times your dps in half the time. Go on a tridolon hunt with a lanka and no riven and you will be lucky if you deal 10% of total damage

If this concept is what has led to frames rebalance I  don't see why it shouldn't be applied to rivens as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own a riven collection worth tens of thousands platinium and yet I welcome the riven rebalance. Even if my shiny, expensive "toys" get nerfed to the ground. That is the risk of investing in riven mods and it already happened before. A smart trader will figure a way to work around the changes and find other source of income, A Not-so-smart one will just go here and complain. 

For example look at gram rivens, it is OBVIOUS that this weapon should NOT have 5/5 riven disposition, yet people still spend thousands of plat on their "godly" rivens and then do everything in their power to prevent riven rebalance, which would be overall healthy for the game. 

Also, it is a fact that DE confirmed on multiple ocassions that they will look at riven dispositions, yet you people STILL spend your "precious" platinium (Plat is worthless which is another problem) on "godly" rivens and then you dare to speak how nerfing your toy will ruin the game.. I cannot even describe that behaviour without getting banned from forums.

I've already lost thousands of platinium when they removed raids and moved arcanes to eidolons, arcane energize (and many others) prices dropped from 500p to 250p. I owned 4 energize sets, now go figure. Guess i should be whining on forums right? 

Also some people brought up argument of "platinium being a real money and DE should not toy with it" That's terrible argument. Most people who "spent 10.000+" plat on their riven collection are simply  traders who didn't spent a penny on the game and yet owns thousands of plat. People who spend real money on the game do not buy your overpriced rivens for 5000 platinium. Even if so, they do that very rarely. I'm a trader since DE introduced whole trading system and i know my share about this topic.

Greed is terrible trait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-10-22 at 3:11 PM, Gullim92 said:

I personally hate rivens, just feels like one layer of RNG too many in a game with too much of it already. That's not to say I don't appreciate rivens giving new life to trading and such, but if they do get nerfed or even outright removed I can't say I'll be too sad about it.

Noted.. but then you're at the mercy of what DE thinks is meta, you will have less control over your fave weapon, since if Rivens are removed, then that "meh" but really fun weapon isn't capabble of end game anymore and is relegated back to fodder status.  I see too many downsides than positives without a Riven system, but that's just me of course.

 

The arguments are:

 

Centralization or Decentralization(?)...

Control or Subjugation(?)....

Free Market or Regulation(?)...

 

That being said, the alternative is to make another pass to all weapons, but yet again not all weapons can be good, which means some people will be angry that thier fave gun can no longer scale... so you see.. it's the same problem regardles, and that's why Rivens is the best solution to this as of yet(or the best idea atm) to my knowledge, not perfect sure!, but it has more positives... it gives all weapons a chance to at least be viable solving the angry mob.

 

On disposition balance pass; it has to be taken carefully, because if a meta weapon disposition is nerfed to a point of diminutive returns, then people won't bother, to then having a negative effect of making a concentration of players seek the other high disposition ones on meta cat. taking us back to were we were (Tonkor days)..lol.

Here is were You having some control (Rivens), aliviates this. That's why I don't get anyone being against it, but I also assume they allready took all points into account for their arguments (my mistake I guess), but I'm learning that's not the case lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, aSpaceStranger said:

Noted.. but then you're at the mercy of what DE thinks is meta, you will have less control over your fave weapon, since if Rivens are removed, then that "meh" but really fun weapon isn't capabble of end game anymore and is relegated back to fodder status.  I see too many downsides than positives without a Riven system, but that's just me of course.

 

The arguments are:

 

Centralization or Decentralization(?)...

Control or Subjugation(?)....

Free Market or Regulation(?)...

 

That being said, the alternative is to make another pass to all weapons, but yet again not all weapons can be good, which means some people will be angry that thier fave gun can no longer scale... so you see.. it's the same problem regardles, and that's why Rivens is the best solution to this as of yet(or the best idea atm) to my knowledge, not perfect sure!, but it has more positives... it gives all weapons a chance to at least be viable solving the angry mob.

 

On disposition balance pass; it has to be taken carefully, because if a meta weapon disposition is nerfed to a point of diminutive returns, then people won't bother, to then having a negative effect of making a concentration of players seek the other high disposition ones on meta cat. taking us back to were we were (Tonkor days)..lol.

Here is were You having some control (Rivens), aliviates this. That's why I don't get anyone being against it, but I also assume they allready took all points into account for their arguments (my mistake I guess), but I'm learning that's not the case lol

While I agree that rivens are currently the best solution for scaling weapons to viable levels, I just feel that it's an overall bad solution. My problem isn't with the problem that rivens are attempting to solve, but with the rivens themselves since you can potentially grind your face off doing kuva runs and rerolling a riven just to end up with an equally disappointing stat roll, on top of the fact that outside of buying unveiled rivens you have no control over what weapon you get. In a way, rivens give you some control, just like you said, but rivens themselves are uncontrollable.

It wouldn't be nearly as bad if they allowed SOME degree of control over the riven itself. I'm sure everyone who's ever come into contact with a riven wishes there'd be a way to lock their stats during a reroll, or some way to guarantee you won't just waste time on nothing at all.

Again, rivens are simply a symptom of a much deeper and complicated problem of wanting all weapons to be viable while still keeping a somewhat balanced progression, since obviously a mk-1 braton shouldn't be equal to a tiberon prime or whatever the meta is nowadays. Fixing that problem without using a system as bad as rivens would take a lot more time and work and I have no idea how to even start on a solution, I'm no game designer, but I think rivens are simply not the way to go about it.

Would removing rivens break the whole system? No, I don't think so. Rivens right now are a """"positive"""" in the big picture even if I think they're bad, since they situationally allow non-meta weapons to be viable, but worst case scenario removing them would simply make those weapons fall back into non-viable status. Meta will ALWAYS be meta no matter what happens, that remains true whether rivens are in the system or not. If DE ever decides to give players more agency when it comes to rivens, be it locking stats during a reroll, or guaranteeing the weapon when transmuting them, or anything else they come up with, I think rivens HAVE the potential to be a good solution, but as it stands right now, I don't like them at all.

 

Tl;dr: Rivens are like youtube, it kinda sucks but its still better than the alternative...for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-10-22 at 2:47 PM, Makunogo said:

The insane prices were not set by DE so lets stop blaming them for that shall we?

The asinine prices aren't DE's problem, either.  Rivens, as they are currently, break the balance and flow of the game, so they're getting a balance and possibly mechanics pass. If people were stupid enough to drop hundreds of dollars in an unofficial market, that's their own fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Highlord83 said:

The asinine prices aren't DE's problem, either.  Rivens, as they are currently, break the balance and flow of the game, so they're getting a balance and possibly mechanics pass. If people were stupid enough to drop hundreds of dollars in an unofficial market, that's their own fault.

I would agree the prices are not any problem of DE's and feel that with most things, they will eventually even out by user input in time but disagree that Rivens fundamentally break the balance and flow of the game. They do present more progression potential yes, but aside from the mechanics of limited storage, and random nature of them, they don't do anything more in the balance perspective that any other progression mod might not. I view enemy scaling as more an issue of the game's balance to be honest, but that is another topic for likely, another day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Urlan said:

they will eventually even out by user input in time

Relying on the invisible hand of the market is part of what makes rivens the problem they are now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-10-22 at 2:17 PM, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

I get that having your riven nerfed would suck, but what the community isn't relizing is that there would be a ton of new rivens buffed. Like there are so many new weapons with a 3 star disposition that are never used and should be 5 star. Makes me really angry how the community doesn't want these weapons to be brought up to the power level they should be. Your tiberon is going to still wreck with a 2 star disposition riven.

The thing is, I already put in time and platinum on getting the rivens I have.  You're saying it's okay that my rivens will be nerfed because then I put in even more time and platinum getting different rivens...  Which will then be nerfed...requiring even more time and platinum...

People want to feel like they are earning and keeping rivens, not "renting" them to ride the tide of whatever hasn't been properly balanced.  So yeah, it would be nice to hypothetically have the option to bring every weapon up to the point that it can be top shelf with the right riven, but people have already invested heavily in what they have now and DE has not given any indication that they will respect that investment. That's why I'm concerned about disposition adjustments.

If dispositions are paved over and no effort made to compromise with existing owners, then I will probably lost interest in rivens. Why would I ever buy a riven if I know that the stats are just going to get taken away some day?  Why would I ever buy a resource booster to go kuva farming, if I know that my awesome riven that cost days of grinding will be turned into barely-adequate garbage if the weapon ever gets rebalanced or becomes popular?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will admit.. If they make heavy nerfs I'd be seriously pissed off about the very rare 3200 plat riven I just got the other day. 

Let's not do anything TOO drastic just yet, shall we.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Momaw said:

The thing is, I already put in time and platinum on getting the rivens I have.  You're saying it's okay that my rivens will be nerfed because then I put in even more time and platinum getting different rivens...  Which will then be nerfed...requiring even more time and platinum...

People want to feel like they are earning and keeping rivens, not "renting" them to ride the tide of whatever hasn't been properly balanced.  So yeah, it would be nice to hypothetically have the option to bring every weapon up to the point that it can be top shelf with the right riven, but people have already invested heavily in what they have now and DE has not given any indication that they will respect that investment. That's why I'm concerned about disposition adjustments.

If dispositions are paved over and no effort made to compromise with existing owners, then I will probably lost interest in rivens. Why would I ever buy a riven if I know that the stats are just going to get taken away some day?  Why would I ever buy a resource booster to go kuva farming, if I know that my awesome riven that cost days of grinding will be turned into barely-adequate garbage if the weapon ever gets rebalanced or becomes popular?

I don't see how it will be satisfying to have fluctuating stats. It really seems like something with little gain, yet causing massive complaints. 

I could see a disposition boost for some weapons though, but I don't think there are many OP problem-weapons in this game anymore that NEEDS to be nerfed. Also taking into consideration that Rivens in general are rare for specific weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you not think that people would get mad for how much they paid for certain riven mods? I feel like it's a bit good for both sides, even though I agree that some weapons deserve better/worse dispositions.

The devs definitely want to respect the investment since not everyone trades all day and has 17k plat left in their inventory. It would be kind of a lose/lose situation every time a weapons receives a significant dispo nerf, even though I would love to see some buffs to a few of my favorite weapons.. but then again.. you know DE, they absolutely would nerf dispos that wouldn't need it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because something they possibly spent way to much plat on might lose effectiveness. I'm all for it but then again the two most expensive Rivens i had i dissolved for endo when i tired of the weapons they were for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the changes are based off how good the weapon is,
instead of how popular/used the weapon is,
then i'm completely fine with it.

Currently the best shuriken in the game has a 4 RD,
while the weakest has a 1 RD.
That is just stupid.
The weakest weapons should all have 5 RD, while the strongest have 1 RD.
That way, EVERY weapon can be good, instead of just the power-creep/meta gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have invested a lot of time and plat on the Rivens that I have.

I am very ok with a disposition change.

I was aware of the risk when I bought my Rivens anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-10-23 at 2:32 AM, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

De and "buffs" 🤣

No joke, they do buff more often than they nerf. It's just that the community will see hundreds of buffs and there'll be a thread or two, maybe, while every nerf seems to trigger a S#&$storm of sobbing Forum users. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Main reason why people will be upset about the change is the market. It will crash,big time. And if they do these updates often,then the riven market will be like real-life stock market.

Prices will change in seconds. They will buy one weapon with high dispo,get a GOD thier riven and then use it so the dispo will get lower and sell the riven for a high price. Chances to get the good riven will be minimal.  Game will turn into a wild goose hunt. The players wil get sick of the constant price change,and at the end they wont open rivens.

One solution can be that all the rivens have the same disposition(the RNG window will be much smaller then),but there will be another problem:weapons witl low dispo will get a huge buff,and weapons with high dispo will get a huge nerf. 

Personaly,I would like to stay as it is. If someone has a good idea for the rivens that won't break the game,than I will be more than happy to see that change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will not keep fluctuating. Period. People need to stop spreading such scare tactics.

Picture two different weapons, they're unbalanced, one is better than the other. Naturally you'd only switch when you feel the difference is big enough to justify the effort. People have different thresholds to make them switch and the number of people that do switch out will get smaller and smaller. Others will still stick to a certain weapon because they liked the feel of it more.

In the end it will stabilize around a certain level of balance between the two items that it would not even matter which one you use and people would just stop switching: they'd just use what they liked. So now you have two similarly usable toys instead of just one whack out of balance, but of course you don't want that to happen because of monetary concerns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now, if you look at the riven disposition list, the 5/5 disposition has the biggest number of weapons, then comes 4/5 and so on. If that wouldn't change with disposition change, there'd probably be a lot less salt. Snipers and Opticor wouldn't probably change since those are eidolon and sortie boss only weapons for the most players. The prime weapons with high disposition, especially Tiberon and Pyrana, would most likely change, maybe two or more dispositions, and that'd be the biggest salt people would have over it.

So I don't think the backlash would be so great as it's made up to be. I have Tiberon and Pyrana rivens and Pyrana Prime is my most used weapon by far these days. But I wouldn't be salty if those dispositions were changed to 1/5 because I was smart and didn't spend more than 2k on them total. You could easily spend 5-10k or more on them but what's the use? To be able to do arbitrations 2-3 rotations longer than me? No thanks. Each to their own though. I just don't see the point of getting those rivens for such absurd prices in the first place. Where exactly will they be better than my weapons, and what do you get out of that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites