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Why are people so against riven disposition changes?


(PSN)randy_lahey__--
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56 minutes ago, seprent said:

i dont deal in rivens so i cant draw absolutes

but what i would do is have a bot look at the % of weapons used in the past 2 weeks since de has the data to begin with and then raise and lower disposition based on thresholds in % used 

80+ to 100% > 1 

60+ to 80% > 2

40+ to 60% > 3 

20+ to 40% > 4

0+ to 20% > 5

since 100 / 5 is 20 i just made the disposition ranks based on 20s rough explanation 

That sounds well and good to me. However, once the disposition rebalancing pass occurs, some of those weapons with high disposition will become the new meta and prices for those rivens will skyrocket, just like what we see now with those ridiculous prices for Lanka, Rubico, etc. And the cycle will continue until the next rebalance, when another new set of weapons will take their place.

Nerf something, and something else will replace it. The eternal nerf cycle...

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4 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

It failed miserable at that cause it made good weapons better and bad weapon rivens get scrapped. With the exception of some hidden gems but those are few and far in between

they cant please everyone. lets remember that the disposition was based on usage at a different time. 

the last poster just mentioned rubico which was like 200p before the prime now its 1k, but rubico wasn't used that much before. so should they now lower its disposition because its viable now? in this situation riven disposition would have to change in pretty much every update. i don't think anyone wants that.

Edited by Makunogo
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Just now, Makunogo said:

from what i know it was ALSO to buff unused weapons to so they would be used. 

i disagree and think DE considering how many weapon choices there is, did a decent job with thier dispositions. sure some of them are outdated but its realistically a stupid idea to constantly be changing the disposition of weapons. nobody will be buying anything if they are constantly afraid thier "godly riven" will be nerfed

Hence why I put it in quotation marks because I rather not write out redundant details. I assume that everyone would have their own opinion of "buff", "nerf" and "balancing" so there's no point creating an argument on that front.

It is unrealistic to be constantly changing disposition and this is... arguably a good thing as much as it is a bad thing. Since DE keeps changing up/improving what Warframe is, weapons are unable to keep up with the new contant relevancy. It's a good thing because so far, we can look forward to actual NEW content. It's a bad thing because the value of weapons keep fluctuating with or without Rivens. Right now, it's probably best to wait until DE has "finished" the core of Warframe before balancing the weapons.

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35 minutes ago, axellex said:

But they did it before when they reduced the stats for tonkor and soma, granted back then it was quite quick and not many good tonkor or soma rivens existed and prices were not as outrageous as for lanka.

I still fully expect them to trash the people that bought rivens for 4k-10k plat, sucks to be power hungry. 😂

If you spent that much for a riven then tough S#&$. sorry not sorry XD

I never understood where people got the idea that a riven was worth more than 5 prime accesses. The most expensive trade I've ever done was trade a pretty nice guandao riven for an astilla riven the guy orginally wanted 300 plt for. Most of the time I only deal with rivens if their price was between 1 -100 plt (and the high end is still pretty rare) where the average is around 80.

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2 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

Hence why I put it in quotation marks because I rather not write out redundant details. I assume that everyone would have their own opinion of "buff", "nerf" and "balancing" so there's no point creating an argument on that front.

It is unrealistic to be constantly changing disposition and this is... arguably a good thing as much as it is a bad thing. Since DE keeps changing up/improving what Warframe is, weapons are unable to keep up with the new contant relevancy. It's a good thing because so far, we can look forward to actual NEW content. It's a bad thing because the value of weapons keep fluctuating with or without Rivens. Right now, it's probably best to wait until DE has "finished" the core of Warframe before balancing the weapons.

agree with that. tho not sure on the last part. i mean what does :"finished" even mean anymore. the cycle of lack of content doesn't end. and warframe is a relatively new game (only 5 years isnt that old)

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11 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

That sounds well and good to me. However, once the disposition rebalancing pass occurs, some of those weapons with high disposition will become the new meta and prices for those rivens will skyrocket, just like what we see now with those ridiculous prices for Lanka, Rubico, etc. And the cycle will continue until the next rebalance, when another new set of weapons will take their place.

Nerf something, and something else will replace it. The eternal nerf cycle...

The prices wouldn't sky rocket cause people will realise that what ever they spend plat on could be reduced in value a ton next patch which will lower the average price for a riven.

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so why can't rivens cost a lot if the demand is there?

I dont wanna sound like a $&*^ but its starting to come off as..

Hey this costs too much.. nerf the dispo so its cheaper.

also lets take note that rivens are generated randomly. so there might just be a shortage of a certain riven that also happens to be useable. which can also spike its price up. or a new weapon. like the sentient slayer that just came out. 

Edited by Makunogo
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5 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

agree with that. tho not sure on the last part. i mean what does :"finished" even mean anymore. the cycle of lack of content doesn't end. and warframe is a relatively new game (only 5 years isnt that old)

Again... I put in quotation because I don't even know what it means and I don't know whether the game will ever actually be finished outside of DE stopping/halting development.

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1 minute ago, Goodwill said:

Again... I put in quotation because I don't even know what it means and I don't know whether the game will ever actually be finished outside of DE stopping/halting development.

not entirely sure what u referring to when u say " in quotation" lol

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22 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

warframemarket? i have been around for a while and i don't see it hard at all to sell a prime set o .o unless im selling it in trade chat which is just silly..

Warframemarket is great for buying since everyone is trying to undersell everyone else. But for selling it's pretty bad cause it conveniently shows you the lowest price so everyone is trying to compete so they can sell in a reasonable amount of time. For trade chat selling you can usually make two or three times the asking price easily. But it's gotten worse for a few reasons one of the main ones is that we lack any good systems to get plat out of the trade circle. So the amount of plat rises while the value of plat ingame lowers over all.

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7 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

The prices wouldn't sky rocket cause people will realise that what ever they spend plat on could be reduced in value a ton next patch which will lower the average price for a riven.

that's basically scare tactics. and not a good idea when people are spending money.. this is probably the main reason why DE hasn't touched disposition. and if they only touch a few weapons that would be even worse 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

People (for whatever reason) are buying/selling rivens for over 1000p. All of a sudden the disposition changes and now their pricey riven is objectively worse than when they bought it. That's why people don't want a disposition change.

I, on the other hand, welcome a disposition change. I can't wait when we finally get one and the whole riven system drowns in the tears of crying players.

yeah, its really their fault for thinking they could make profit based on simply having a conveniently good riven. even more of their fault for thinking that said riven was unique enough to put such a large price on it. more fault for their buyer who thought that the price was fair.

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4 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

Warframemarket is great for buying since everyone is trying to undersell everyone else. But for selling it's pretty bad cause it conveniently shows you the lowest price so everyone is trying to compete so they can sell in a reasonable amount of time. For trade chat selling you can usually make two or three times the asking price easily. But it's gotten worse for a few reasons one of the main ones is that we lack any good systems to get plat out of the trade circle. So the amount of plat rises while the value of plat ingame lowers over all.

most people call that ripping someone off ... its mostly taking advantage of people who are unaware of prices. 

also warframe market prices are generally stable so i don't really agree with that.

what do you mean the value of plat? the value of plat is an illusion. plat is plat. what we do with it is up to each individual person. (IMO)

Edited by Makunogo
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We should never have been able to trade rivens. They are still just plain bad design and didn't even come close to doing what they were intended to do, but you can't have something so that is so potentially rare and overpowered and expect that it's gonna go well in the market. They waited to long to deal with this problem and it's just gotten worse over time and will continue to get worse. As far as I can tell, there are no good solutions. No matter what, it's gonna be bad. The best thing to do IMO is to just try and slowly devalue them over time, and work them out of peoples builds. Removing them from trade would be a good start though. That way people can't spend more plat and it will at least taper the amount of investment people are putting into them.

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6 minutes ago, Betsill said:

We should never have been able to trade rivens. They are still just plain bad design and didn't even come close to doing what they were intended to do, but you can't have something so that is so potentially rare and overpowered and expect that it's gonna go well in the market. They waited to long to deal with this problem and it's just gotten worse over time and will continue to get worse. As far as I can tell, there are no good solutions. No matter what, it's gonna be bad. The best thing to do IMO is to just try and slowly devalue them over time, and work them out of peoples builds. Removing them from trade would be a good start though. That way people can't spend more plat and it will at least taper the amount of investment people are putting into them.

you mean abruptly make them untradeable? 

honestly if that was to happen i would have nothing that i want to sell anymore LOL and seriously speaking prime stuff isn't worth anything.

Rivens are the only thing to really spend plat on anymore. you can argue that there is market stuff. but i been in the game for only a year and have bought out roughly half the market without trying to get rich

as much as i hate the riven system and everything it's about, it's honestly one of the reason i'm still playing.

Edited by Makunogo
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12 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

most people call that ripping someone off ... its mostly taking advantage of people who are unaware of prices. 

also warframe market prices are generally stable so i don't really agree with that.

what do you mean the value of plat? the value of plat is an illusion. plat is plat. what we do with it is up to each individual person. (IMO)

on the note of value of plat. You can trade the currency of where ever you live to de for plat a currency that can't be traded back and only works within Warframe. So with that out of the way, as more plat enters the system items will start to be more extreme with prime sets selling and buying for dirt cheap and rivens being sold and bought for huge amounts in comparison. While the exchange rate of your currency to plat doesn't adjust with the market over time. (Though exchange rate isn't the right word) look up Russia inflation in 19XX (can't remember exact year) to see what the situation is in a real life example. People litterly carried money around in buckets and wheelbarrows because so much was printed and the value of it went down to an insane degree. World of Warcraft went through an issue similar to this before as well with the value of gold.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

I get that having your riven nerfed would suck, but what the community isn't relizing is that there would be a ton of new rivens buffed. Like there are so many new weapons with a 3 star disposition that are never used and should be 5 star. Makes me really angry how the community doesn't want these weapons to be brought up to the power level they should be. Your tiberon is going to still wreck with a 2 star disposition riven.

You realize they could buff bad dispo without choke slamming good rivens right?

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It definitely needs a change, I couldn't care less if some of the rich dirtbags were shorted out a few thousand plat from their "GODLY RIVEN 3k PLAT BASE OFFER!!!!11!1"

In all honesty though, it ridiculous that weapons like the Tiberon and Gram have 5/5 while weapons like the Burston etc get 4 or lower. Needs some balance changes and then maybe the trade chat will even itself out a bit

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3 minutes ago, Betsill said:

We should never have been able to trade rivens. They are still just plain bad design and didn't even come close to doing what they were intended to do, but you can't have something so that is so potentially rare and overpowered and expect that it's gonna go well in the market. They waited to long to deal with this problem and it's just gotten worse over time and will continue to get worse. As far as I can tell, there are no good solutions. No matter what, it's gonna be bad. The best thing to do IMO is to just try and slowly devalue them over time, and work them out of peoples builds. Removing them from trade would be a good start though. That way people can't spend more plat and it will at least taper the amount of investment people are putting into them.

Or maybe you are taking that "we want to bring bad weapons into the mix with rivens" too strongly while they said that it's pretty clear what the intention with riven was in the first place "to build power mods and watch the money roll" after all if the sole purpose was the bring trash tier to decent tier the rivens wouldn't not be pachinko machines and they would never have negative dmg stats in the first place.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

I get that having your riven nerfed would suck, but what the community isn't relizing is that there would be a ton of new rivens buffed.

You're making an awfully big assumption here.... a rebalance of the rivens doesn't automatically mean DE will buff the weak ones, the odds are they'll just nerf the 'good' ones and be done with it.

 

As to why people are against dispositions getting changed.... investment, be it plat or be it kuva, which in turn also means time and effort to get. 

 

While I can see the reasoning behind rebalancing the rivens the issue we have now is purely down to DE's original balancing (it should NEVER have included weapon popularity)  and any change they do now will see a LOT of players annoyed that their 'strong rivens' have been nerfed.  I know I wouldn't be happy if the only good rivens (and they're not even top tier ones) I have suddenly get a nerf and thats without buying any with plat, I'd be even more annoyed if I'd paid out plat on a riven. 

The simple fact is we never actually needed rivens, what we needed was a decent weapon balance pass but DE took the riven approach which clearly had an element of plat sales in it's design, not least in it's limited slots but also in the fact you could trade them.  Any major changes will also affect the 'riven cash cow' so DE need to be very careful about upsetting the people spending thousands of plat on rivens...

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