Why are people so against riven disposition changes?

[Betsill]

2 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

you mean abruptly make them untradeable? 

honestly if that was to happen i would have nothing that i want to sell anymore LOL and seriously speaking prime stuff isn't worth anything.

Rivens are the only thing to really spend plat on anymore. you can argue that there is markey stuff. but i been in the game for only a year and have bought out roughly half the market without trying to get rich

Rivens take up most of the market now. Removing them would make selling other stuff easier. Rivens are getting worse because the longer they are tradable the more people you have that are spending massive amounts of plat on them. If you stop them from being tradable no one loses(at worse you just can't gain plat from them). Everyone will still have the rivens they bought and even though you can't sell them anymore, you still have them and can do what you want otherwise. Over time people will start to forget about how much plat they were and they begin to be far less polarizing and toxic of a game mechanic. People won't be able to invest nearly as much as they can now, so it will lessen the blow if DE takes any further action with them.

[axellex]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

what you guys think would happen if they just made the dispo of everything 5?

i'm honestly curious what weapons people would be using.

That's what it was on release then they changed it to what we currently have because it only made tonkors and somas more ridiculous. The funny part in all this is that now soma and tonkor are nowhere near what a pyrana prime is with a riven.

[Xolgys]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb stormy505:

It failed miserable at that cause it made good weapons better and bad weapon rivens get scrapped. With the exception of some hidden gems but those are few and far in between

sry if this sounds passive agressive but u could only state that if u havent tried a lot of underrated weapons with rivens...or ur builds/rolls were wrong.

sure, it takes some effort and luck or plat to really try out a lot of weapons with very good rivens, but dont judge like this because i know this is 100% not true. people tend to follow the hype and miss weapons which are at least as good. it is not as easily done as its written/said, but just because some weapons are hyped due to whatever reason like being really good for eidolons doesnt mean unpopular ones are bad. it just means most ppl dont really try them out and just copy general opinions. lets take one example: phage...people like phantasma since it came out. its fully 100% status viable and has an interesting alt fire. phage is far better with a 100% status build. add a riven with crit chance and other good stats and due to how beam weapons work u have a legit hybrid 100% status weapons even with only ~40% crit chance which has 5 beams each always proccing status. on top the base damage is viral, making viral/korr/expl a legit combination which offers halving max health, stripping armor and CCing. how often do u see phage ingame ? the focusing is no argument because the weapon is really really strong. same goes for mutalist cernos...or lacera....harpak with a corr/slash (hunters muni) hybrid build is a beast, actually more so than the typical synergy combo viral/slash u would use. buzlok...rarely seen generally. embolist ? ~90% sc purely corrosive and double the average dps as a well riven'ed ignis wraith with the only downside being the AoE/range. hema ? paracyst ? or or or...the list goes on and even if u need a frame to help out with armor reduction/removal for example depending on how far u go in terms of enemy level that point will arrive anyway, one way or another. it doesnt mean these weapons are weak(er) though.

imo it doesnt fail horribly, imo players stick too much to the general hype and thats also a reason why some riven prices are through the roof like this. i know, this is easier written than done though, but still...

[Makunogo]

4 minutes ago, Betsill said:

Rivens take up most of the market now. Removing them would make selling other stuff easier. Rivens are getting worse because the longer they are tradable the more people you have that are spending massive amounts of plat on them. If you stop them from being tradable no one loses(at worse you just can't gain plat from them). Everyone will still have the rivens they bought and even though you can't sell them anymore, you still have them and can do what you want otherwise. Over time people will start to forget about how much plat they were and they begin to be far less polarizing and toxic of a game mechanic. People won't be able to invest nearly as much as they can now, so it will lessen the blow if DE takes any further action with them.

if rivens were untradeable then we may never see a riven for the weapon we wanted. this would also majorly increase the price of veiled rivens to a toxic amount as people are gonna be using alot more trying to get what they want. i could see them being 500p each  because the demand would for sure be there. people will see this as their way to make a lot of plat. of course that's assuming the veiled riven is tradeable. 

but before this even happens rivens would reach a stupidly high amount because 1. limited slots. 2. demand will be HUGE cus people won't have a way to get rivens anymore outside of heavy rng. and who wants less options? overall it's a pretty bad idea in my opinion.

From DE POV Rivens is an alternative option to spending because let's be real most people have all primes or will have them soon. then there is market items and only so much of that sells. 

[axellex]

12 minutes ago, Betsill said:

Rivens take up most of the market now. Removing them would make selling other stuff easier. Rivens are getting worse because the longer they are tradable the more people you have that are spending massive amounts of plat on them. If you stop them from being tradable no one loses(at worse you just can't gain plat from them). Everyone will still have the rivens they bought and even though you can't sell them anymore, you still have them and can do what you want otherwise. Over time people will start to forget about how much plat they were and they begin to be far less polarizing and toxic of a game mechanic. People won't be able to invest nearly as much as they can now, so it will lessen the blow if DE takes any further action with them.

While I understand your sentiment and why it would be good for the game to have rivens removed, what do the devs gain out of removing a market that drives sums of over 3k-7k platinum?

It's like having a goose that lays golden eggs and you kill it because it's unethical. 🤣

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

Because the only arguments I ever here for it are as follows.

A) "Haha I just want to see salty tears". Rivens make DE money, and I would say quite a bit. The attitude that I've seen from certain people on this isnt just silly its downright toxic. I've literally seen people on this board say they want people who have spent money on rivens to feel ripped off because they think it would be funny.

B) "but muh meta counterbalance". That idea was doomed to fail from the get-go and it's no wonder DE abandoned it. Why would a player bother going through layers of RNG and or spend a bunch of platinum on a riven just to make it compete with another gun that is so good it doesnt really need a riven (cough tigris) only to have the risk of the riven getting nerfed and you ending up with a weapon that still isn't competitive? They wouldn't. This has got to be why DE rebalance weapons the way they did: buffing a bunch of them to make more things viable.

C) "well I hate rivens". Ok and? You dont have to use them. You dont have to buy them.

 

And it's worth mentioning: riven disposition has not been updated in over 600 days. Their is no in game explanation of how riven disposition is "supposed to work" and there is no explanation for why it hasn't changed in so long. Any player who started playing AFTER the war within launched has never, ever, not once seen anything about riven disposition mentioned in the patch notes. They would have no way to know how its "supposed to work" unless they had a penchant for digging through dev streams from years ago and the wiki. Even if they did, they would have to do more digging to find out how long it's actually been since the last change.

But somehow theres a parade of people who will come here and say "well anybody who buys a Riven should know better because reasons".

[Makunogo]

13 minutes ago, axellex said:

That's what it was on release then they changed it to what we currently have because it only made tonkors and somas more ridiculous. The funny part in all this is that now soma and tonkor are nowhere near what a pyrana prime is with a riven.

oh that must have been fun lol

[(PSN)robotwars7]

not gonna happen. DE makes a ton of money from people who buy plat in order to trade for their dream Riven. from a business standpoint it would be foolish to risk losing such an effective means of generating revenue. weapons like Gram Prime are left as they are because those are the weapons players will go to any length to get Rivens for them. 

DE probably never intended for Rivens to turn out the way they did, but since it's actually helping them, it's unlikely they're gonna let this go.

Edited October 22, 2018 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Betsill]

3 minutes ago, axellex said:

While I understand your sentiment and why it would be good for the game to have rivens removed, what do the devs gain out of removing a market that drives sums of over 3k-7k platinum?

It's like having a goose that lays golden eggs and you kill it because it's unethical. 🤣

Because it's better for the game in the short and long term. Alot of that plat is just circulating between players that already have a ton. Idk how much it's actually making DE, but it's gonna cost allot more if people get fed up and start leaving. Lootboxes were making EA a ton of money, but when people got fed up, started review bombing them, and stopped playing their game they started losing money.

[taiiat]

perhaps because Rivens made Modding issues that were already present even worse.
sure, i've got plenty of Rivens for various Weapons, some of which make those Weapons pretty dumb. just more Powercrepe though, nothing else. the only thing having Rivens changed was making stacking DPS Stats more important than it already was.

that Weapon rebalance you reference was a mixed bag - some Weapon categories got some things they really needed, but overall it kinda just gave almost every good Crit and Status to make everything a Hybrid Weapon.
not very interesting.

[Oreades]

Why are people against disposition changes? 

Simple they either 

1. Use the Riven and don't want to risk the potential of their favorite toy getting knocked down a few pegs
2. Sell the Rivens and don't want to risk the potential of their investment getting knocked down a few pegs

Either way they have a vested interest in insuring that things never change. 

 

Personally I think they should adjust rivens monthly with some weighting for new primes/prisma/wraith/vandal variants that would throw those numbers into chaos while everyone and their dog MR fodders them.

They should probably also try to avid radical changes where a weapon goes from 5 disposition to 1 disposition in one iteration. They should probably only ever shift one to at the most two points per adjustment period. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Oreades

[Hypernaut1]

Thereb is no reason to change disposition. There's is no weapon absolutely dominating the game anymore in usage anymore. 

Rivens diversified greatly what the player base takes into missions. It's by far one of THE lost successful additions to the game

[-STR-Lotus]

why not all unnecessary issues ps4

[axellex]

1 minute ago, Betsill said:

Because it's better for the game in the short and long term. Alot of that plat is just circulating between players that already have a ton. Idk how much it's actually making DE, but it's gonna cost allot more if people get fed up and start leaving. Lootboxes were making EA a ton of money, but when people got fed up, started review bombing them, and stopped playing their game they started losing money.

And lootboxes are still making EA a ton of money over 60% of their revenue even, but in games like fifa where it's accepted as the norm, and guess what rivens are also accepted in general in warframe, sure there will always be people that push back on certain aspects but if they aren't the larger percent of players then well sorry to be the bearer of bad news but they do not matter in the slightest.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Because they haven’t been rebalanced in over a year. Giving top tier weapons 5 disposition and even furthering the power gap between the weapons.

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

perhaps because Rivens made Modding issues that were already present even worse.
sure, i've got plenty of Rivens for various Weapons, some of which make those Weapons pretty dumb. just more Powercrepe though, nothing else. the only thing having Rivens changed was making stacking DPS Stats more important than it already was.

that Weapon rebalance you reference was a mixed bag - some Weapon categories got some things they really needed, but overall it kinda just gave almost every good Crit and Status to make everything a Hybrid Weapon.
not very interesting.

How could you say it made "modding issues worse"? In what way? 

The only reason for disposition in the first place was so people wouldn't mad dash for boltor prime rivens. The player base is past that stage now. Riven disposition doesn't really need to be tinkered with much anymore. 

[taiiat]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How could you say it made "modding issues worse"? In what way? 

The only reason for disposition in the first place was so people wouldn't mad dash for boltor prime rivens. The player base is past that stage now. Riven disposition doesn't really need to be tinkered with much anymore. 

the only thing having Rivens changed was making stacking DPS Stats more important than it already was.
i already said it.

aside from yno, 'high Tier' Weapons that also have high Riven Multipliers. there's a plethora of them by now.
not to mention hidden information, why are Riven Multipliers and the Stat Ranges for every Weapon hidden information. no good reason for it to be.

[(PSN)randy_lahey__--]

1 hour ago, Eirshy said:

You'd need a complete Rivens 2.0 to make it work. Otherwise you're just gonna piss people off and have to do it again in a month or two.

Hell, even making it accurate to [current] usage stats would be bad- there's a lot of weapons that are only really viable in the first place due to their riven dispo. And even then, the original reason for tying it to usage at that time was because there was no other metric that could be used to "accurately" gauge weapon effectiveness. Since MR reqs are what they now are, you can use that as a stable power metric, and tie your dispo to that.

Then the issue becomes that currently a riven is for the weapon and all variants. IE, an AkBolto riven can be equipped on the Telos and Prime versions. This would also need to change.

 

So personally, I am opposed to only a dispo change. A complete Riven 2.0 bound to MR of the weapon equipped, preferably with additional features (partial reroll? natural dual elements? explosions? status-on-crit? convert-to-element? energy-on-x? life-on-x?) and preferably an "old rivens are grandfathered or can be converted" clause like they did with Arcane Helmets to mitigate the backlash... That, I support 100%.

But a dispo change and nothing else will not actually make things better. It'll collapse a huge part of the plat trade, and that's what keeps DE so very profitable.

Nah

[(PSN)randy_lahey__--]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

not gonna happen. DE makes a ton of money from people who buy plat in order to trade for their dream Riven. from a business standpoint it would be foolish to risk losing such an effective means of generating revenue. weapons like Gram Prime are left as they are because those are the weapons players will go to any length to get Rivens for them. 

DE probably never intended for Rivens to turn out the way they did, but since it's actually helping them, it's unlikely they're gonna let this go.

Uh chief I'm suggesting the buff other dispositions to. Which means there will be new God rivens for different guns. Its how the system was supposed to work.

[Eirshy]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

Nah

Are we really going to play @ tag instead of having a meaningful discussion?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Eirshy

[aSpaceStranger]

Brozime subs myb lol   I never (no matter the argument) could fathom why they think this way about rivens.. Rivens made old content viable and gave CPR to a lot of content that was just fodder, that's clear!.

A re-balance pass it's not a bad idea (for non-meta weapons to up the disposition even more that is) to some extent, but who cares about how meta some weapons can be in a PVE game anyways?.. I mean who does that?.. you shouldn't care if others can meta/minmax anything.

If the argument comes from their experience being annoyed (like some frames can do) then I can see the point and even then it's situational, but that doesn't apply to Rivens.

Some just like to complain for the sake of complaining I guess.

[mrrobotto67]

I am just gonna say that as it is right now, Rivens are my only reason to come back into the game. (Fortuna and all the content dropping with will be other reason).

[mikakor]

52 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

what you guys think would happen if they just made the dispo of everything 5?

i'm honestly curious what weapons people would be using.

well, like this, everything could be end game, no? ( at minimum level 300 easy, which could be considered end game. )

[Gullim92]

I personally hate rivens, just feels like one layer of RNG too many in a game with too much of it already. That's not to say I don't appreciate rivens giving new life to trading and such, but if they do get nerfed or even outright removed I can't say I'll be too sad about it.

[seprent]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

-snip-

ahem how about

the majority of the player-base directly going against what de intented for them the moment they came out its a flawed and broken system DAY ONE all it did was make powerful weapons more powerful and the intended use of bringing weaker weapons to the spot light was tossed in the trash.

Eh who cares for fun weak weapons its only atteraxs scoliacs opticors somas dreads now boy meta for life /s

they get nerfed and buffed based on popularity so when every riven seller and owner complains their stuff gets nerfed andwhine at de and how they ruined their investment if they want but be aware its the community's fault as well as their own

i dont buy the rivens, i dont like rivens, i dont like peoples over dependence on god rivens to do things for them then complain there is no challenge in the game, and the only goal of the riven market is to render weapons into flavor of the month skins and ignore anything unique about unless it benefits the riven in question here is a good example new weapon comes out > buy op riven because neutral dispo > kill everything till you get bored > sell riven for more or even what you bought it for > repeat or see the tiberon prime riven skyrocket from 100 or less to 1000 or more this market is out of bloody control and needs to either be tightly regulated or killed out right 

change my mind < legit challenge i'm firm in this belief but i will be open minded

id op for either flat out removal of this broken feature or automated balance where a bot looks at the past two weeks+ of weapon used statistics and buffs and nerfs according to thresholds

since 100/5=20 make the thresholds teirs of 20 since DE already has access to the data of things used by the players let a bot do the buffing and nerfing every 2-3 weeks  

• 80+ to 100% > 1
• 60+ to 80% > 2
• 40+ to 60% > 3
• 20+ to 40% > 4
• 0+ to 20% > 5