Question for veteran players

[Padrey]

So I am asking this here and not in dev forum areas because I have to think this has been requested/spoken for 1000s of times and I'm sure a veteran player could fill me in on what the general consensus is...

The question is what has DE said about building/implementing an Auction House or market place? A place where people can passively post items or bids for items for/with plat (like in Wildstar, etc).

I have to think that DE has no motivation to do this considering it would cost them more money than it would make. Considering people would then be able to see what is selling and have a clear goal to earn plat vs just getting confused by trade chat and third party sites and just saying "F it, where is my CC?"

However, I am curious if this is a feature that is supposed to come in eventually per a promise made long ago. Anyone Know?

Thanks 😄

[Omega]

No, because hoarders of Prime parts looking to speculate the market when they are vaulted are going to whine and complain about an auction house crashing the market.  Yet we already have third party resources that are widely available and known such as warframe.market since DE doesn't decide to implement it themselves.

I fully support an auction house type of system that caters towards rivens where players can place bids, this would greatly clean up trade chat and people would truly see the value of their rivens.

[-AncientWarrior-]

Sounds like you talking about warframe.market website

[GnarlsDarkley]

There are many problems with a built-in Auction House.

One of them being whales can afford everything and can take control of anything. Take Braton Barrel. You pay 1-3p now but whales can push the price to 20p.

Next problem, I personally see, is how DE handels negative plat. If I put an item into the Auction house I have no proof of the trade and cannot do anything if I lose plat for someone's other evil deeds

Edited October 22, 2018 by GnarlsDarkley

[Padrey]

5 minutes ago, Madas007 said:

Sounds like you talking about warframe.market website

Yea except this website is not tied to the game. I can't go to this website and give it 50 plat and expect it to give me the mod that this guy is saying he will sell for 50 plat. That would be the point of a market place or auction house implemented by DE.

like @Omega mentioned, it would help people earn true value for their items and make world trade much more efficient. 

But, the question is: has DE ever actually acknowledged people would want this and talked about whether they want to spend the resources to build it?

[Padrey]

5 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

There are many problems with a built-in Auction House.

One of them being whales can afford everything and can take control of anything. Take Braton Barrel. You pay 1-3p now but whales can push the price to 20p.

Next problem, I personally see, is how DE handels negative plat. If I put an item into the Auction house I have no proof of the trade and cannot do anything if I lose plat for someone's other evil deeds

The thing is (as with any purely capitalistic market) things will be priced to their own market value. That's just how it works. Braton Barrels will be priced to how much they are worth to everyone else. There is just nothing to ever suggest that the rich in a game will bump up prices on items they dont need just because they can... There is no way id hold onto my braton barrells if i saw they were selling for 20p a piece lol. I would sell instantly. i would then farm old relics to get those barrells too. You see how that works?

As for negative plat: see any other game that has an auction house. You make a bid, you have to give the system the plat you are bidding where they hold it (like escrow) until you are outbid. then once that happens you get the money back... Easy.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Padrey

[Omega]

With regards to auction house speculation - there should definitely be a cap on how many times it can be used daily (would count as a trade towards daily limit).  Items being bought and sold should incur a platinum tax by both buyers and sellers (listing fees, buyers fees), with a minimum price of say 5p per item.  warframe.market can still exist if buyers can find the items for cheaper than the in-game auction house. 

Taxes generated by the auction house can be used to cover losses suffered from people buying platinum for real money and doing chargebacks so legitimate sellers aren't being unjustifiably banned.  

There are many ways an auction house can be implemented in the game but people are generally too narrow minded or apprehensive if it affects them in a negative light

Edited October 22, 2018 by Omega

[Magicfingers]

11 minutes ago, Padrey said:

Yea except this website is not tied to the game. I can't go to this website and give it 50 plat and expect it to give me the mod that this guy is saying he will sell for 50 plat.

i see you have no clue as to how that website works....you contact the person selling IN GAME. you then go about making a trade in a dojo like normal....you see what you're getting before you click ok....it's just a way to find out who has what for sale and for how much....and it even let's you know who's online or not.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Magicfingers

[GnarlsDarkley]

12 minutes ago, Padrey said:

As for negative plat: see any other game that has an auction house.

Then we have to differentiate.

The last game I played which had an auction house was Tera. Person A lists an item and the first one who clicked the item got it. You had no control. There was the option to negotiate though...but if I would see a 45ducat item for 2 plat I would instabuy it. And now take this to the exploiter problem. 

You buy platinum, go into the auction house, buy as much as you can and charge back. Bam. Harm done. And the seller doesn't exactly know what caused them the loss and who it might have been.

The current trading is tedious, no doubt, but I have control over the whole process. I can quit out 2 times if sth seems fishy. I can screenshot the trade for proof if I will lose plat and can file a ticket to get my items back.

If you sell 3 sets. One for 40p, one for 60p and the third for 100p and you lose 100p after 2 weeks wihtout touching your plat, you cannot know if the 100p set was "the bad trade" or maybe the other 2 combined.

And like Magicfingers said: .market serves only the purpose to show the listed items. You cannot buy anything from there. You still have to do the actual trade

 

Oh and third problem: DE doesn't want us to be lazy. They want us to interact either with the game and trading

 

Also a (minor) problem would be the daily cap. You have 26 trades max. I ponder which trades are worthy to me and which are not. If I list 60 items I cannot back out. With .market I can list as much as I want (and the site allows me to) but I can turn down any buyer if the trade doesn't fit. E.g I have 4 trades left and I need ducats. I have listed all 45 ducat items for 2 plat. I will, ofc, turn down anyone who just wants to sell me 1 item b/c there may be someone who wants to sell me 20 items. If I am going to log out in the next couple of minutes I sure will take the single items trade though

Edited October 22, 2018 by GnarlsDarkley

[Yagamilight123]

hace 7 minutos, Padrey dijo:

The thing is (as with any purely capitalistic market) things will be priced to their own market value. That's just how it works. Braton Barrels will be priced to how much they are worth to everyone else. There is just nothing to ever suggest that the rich in a game will bump up prices on items they dont need just because they can... There is no way id hold onto my braton barrells if i saw they were selling for 20p a piece lol. I would sell instantly. i would then farm old relics to get those barrells too. You see how that works?

As for negative plat: see any other game that has an auction house. You make a bid, you have to give the system the plat you are bidding where they hold it (like escrow) until you are outbid. then once that happens you get the money back... Easy.

" things will be priced to their own market value "

Its cute how inocent you are if you really think that ..... we have people already selling rivens for 10k or more of pl (and that insane prices are becoming the "standar" , its not just a crazy player alone ) ... Whales can change the market as they want , and an Auction house will make that a lot easy for them . Aside from that , why open more useless threads about something that was answered for almost all ussers in the forum on countless threads in the past ? , you really need the atention that much ?

[Erytroxylin]

29 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

If I put an item into the Auction house I have no proof of the trade and cannot do anything if I lose plat for someone's other evil deeds

This is actually the first legitimate concern I've ever heard. Everything else is silly people worrying about things that aren't an issue.

There is no reason that DE couldn't have auction house trades leave a log trail for their support teams to follow back, but that doesn't address the situation adequately since easier access for scammers also means this will happen more often. So, DE actually needs to address how people getting plat removed actually impacts people before an auction house would be appropriate.

Huh. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

 

[Padrey]

18 hours ago, Yagamilight123 said:

" things will be priced to their own market value "

Its cute how inocent you are if you really think that ..... we have people already selling rivens for 10k or more of pl (and that insane prices are becoming the "standar" , its not just a crazy player alone ) ... Whales can change the market as they want , and an Auction house will make that a lot easy for them . Aside from that , why open more useless threads about something that was answered for almost all ussers in the forum on countless threads in the past ? , you really need the atention that much ?

woah dude... who hurt you? I started this with one question. What has DE said about this, if any? Do you know? 

"its cute how innocent you are if you really think that." Yea i really think that. Thats how markets work... Sorry if your own mental shortcomings make you insecure to this. 

I dont need any of this attention... just an answer to the question i asked.

 Do you need the "pleasure" of unsolicitedly talking down to people on the internet because you get kicked around so much in real life?

... you see how this works now, right?

Edited October 23, 2018 by Padrey

[(PSN)Ghostplayer9111]

i dont remember DE ever makeing any promises or saying anything on this topic of changeing the market system on the game

[Padrey]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Ghostplayer9111 said:

i dont remember DE ever makeing any promises or saying anything on this topic of changeing the market system on the game

thank you! lol first person to answer the question. Yea I figured as much. Oh well. The game is still great. 

[Padrey]

19 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

i see you have no clue as to how that website works....you contact the person selling IN GAME. you then go about making a trade in a dojo like normal....you see what you're getting before you click ok....it's just a way to find out who has what for sale and for how much....and it even let's you know who's online or not.

We are talking about an in game auction house... key word: Auction house. That website is essentially a forum for people trying to trade. Just organized differently. This is about auction houses that process the trades that you post passively. It is different.

... So i see you have no clue as to how auction houses work XD

Again it doesn't matter anymore tho. DE (as i just found out thanks to ghostplayer here) has never mentioned interest in building one so whatever. I was just curious about if that might come. It wont. Oh well.

[KIREEK]

DE wants you to spend time in the game, by having an auction house players would receive "instant gratification", leading to a permature departure from warframe because you simply do not want to play the game, you buy the stuff for cheap and call it a day, including newly release prime stuff.

DE considers trade chat as part of the gameplay, a necessary evil so you consider gameplay as an actual means to get the content you seek.

[kevekev302]

20 hours ago, Omega said:

No, because hoarders of Prime parts looking to speculate the market when they are vaulted are going to whine and complain about an auction house crashing the market.  Yet we already have third party resources that are widely available and known such as warframe.market since DE doesn't decide to implement it themselves.

I fully support an auction house type of system that caters towards rivens where players can place bids, this would greatly clean up trade chat and people would truly see the value of their rivens.

This right here...a riven only auction would help clean up trade chat

[Eirshy]

God the "market price" argument for AH.

I hate that argument so much.

AH style trades produces a stock market.
It does not produce any form of fair-trade platform.

It's convenient, yes, but it is nowhere near as healthy as ya'll seem to think.

For one it drives prices downward, as people can and will undercut eachother regularly by only a handful of plat. When amounts being traded are in the >1m range, dropping even 5k from the price is a net change of under 0.5%, but when the trade value is typically 20p or less, dropping by even 1p is 5%. Now you might be thinking this is a "good" thing, as it means you can buy more items with less plat.

No, it's a bad thing. It will cause further inflation of the riven market (as that is purely subjectively priced, typically priced only for plat-buyers on most items, and said buyers are now spending less plat on parts), and will cause effective inflation of the plat store (that 35p for 3x forma just got a whole lot more expensive because you can buy so much more with 35p). And inflating the plat store price is the worst thing possible you could do, since that causes normal inflation due to less plat leaving the system through it, meaning subjectively priced goods are even more expensive and, due to inflation of supply of prime parts / mods, major suffering in the peasant class while the whales all laugh. 'Cause that inflated level of plat in the system can and will concentrate itself at the top, which is where the riven market is, and will lead to a ton of the second problem with it:

Stock market manipulation techniques (for two). You can do all kinds of shady sh** on an AH with regards to price controlling items. Especially in a game with effectively-limited-edition items like vaulted primes and Baro mods, where you don't know when you might be able to get them again. Even limiting it to the standard trade limit won't solve this problem. Between me and a friend of mine, we're over 45 trades per day. We get the rest of our minimum-sized clan to participate, and we're at over 100. You don't need that many trades to manipulate an AH, only really enough to control the first page of results (and *maybe* the second). That's typically 20-30 to "buy in".

 

Now, does what we have kinda suck?
Yeah. It does.
But an AH is not the solution.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Eirshy

[Eirshy]

24 minutes ago, kevekev302 said:

This right here...a riven only auction would help clean up trade chat

You mean like riven.market ?

EDIT: which has a feature I really wish warframe.market had, where you can copy a buy request whisper to the person from the website so you can just paste it in-game instead of having to type it yourself.

EDIT 2: Typo, it's riven.market.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Eirshy

[kevekev302]

8 minutes ago, Eirshy said:

You mean like rivens.market ?

EDIT: which has a feature I really wish warframe.market had, where you can copy a buy request whisper to the person from the website so you can just paste it in-game instead of having to type it yourself.

Guess i will have to look into that, ive never had much luck selling rivens

[Eirshy]

3 minutes ago, kevekev302 said:

Guess i will have to look into that, ive never had much luck selling rivens

Yeah a friend of mine found it a month or two ago. I haven't tried selling anything on it yet, but it is where I got my Tenora, Baza, and TibP riven for "reasonable" prices (around 590p total for all three), all within an hour or so of looking. Also dashed my dreams of a RubiP riven, those are over 1kp atm.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Eirshy

[Sabreracer]

20 hours ago, Padrey said:

The question is what has DE said about building/implementing an Auction House or market place? A place where people can passively post items or bids for items for/with plat (like in Wildstar, etc).

I 

DE have always remained silent with regards to anything other than keeping trade in its current form.  Maros Bazaar has been the only expansion to how trading is processed. 

Though the safeguards and number of items traded at the same time have changed over the years.

[mrrobotto67]

Yeah, this has been requested for years. I don't think it will ever happen tho ... i have seen people saying that DE said it wouldn't be implemented BUT i haven't heard that myself tho ...

[Eirshy]

Er, figuring I shouldn't be 100% doom and gloom without offering a "better idea" to help with the problem...

Firstly, riven trade needs its own channel. The market for them is inflated, most trade chat offerings involving rivens are looking for suckers (either selling without knowing what they have, or selling as if what they have is better than what it is), and the most common personal filter for trade chat is probably "riven". Splitting it off to its own thing by default may allow the two-minute slowdown (which barely even seems like a slowdown) to be shortened, and should help significantly with moving mods and primes.

Secondly, flea markets need to be fully embraced, complete with offline and in-mission trade initiation (ie, you can enter negotiation for it if you aren't blocking or blocked by the player, but could also hit a "buy it now" value set by the seller regardless of block status if the seller wishes).

[Padrey]

3 hours ago, Sabreracer said:

DE have always remained silent with regards to anything other than keeping trade in its current form.  Maros Bazaar has been the only expansion to how trading is processed. 

Though the safeguards and number of items traded at the same time have changed over the years.

 

3 hours ago, mrrobotto67 said:

Yeah, this has been requested for years. I don't think it will ever happen tho ... i have seen people saying that DE said it wouldn't be implemented BUT i haven't heard that myself tho ...

Thank you both very much for answering! much appreciated. 

[Padrey]

4 hours ago, KIREEK said:

DE wants you to spend time in the game, by having an auction house players would receive "instant gratification", leading to a permature departure from warframe because you simply do not want to play the game, you buy the stuff for cheap and call it a day, including newly release prime stuff.

DE considers trade chat as part of the gameplay, a necessary evil so you consider gameplay as an actual means to get the content you seek.

interesting perspective. Thanks for the reply!