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Titania: Evasion is not a reliable survival mechanic & other changes


mouseodoom
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Titania is not a tanky frame. She struggles to survive in any case where enemies have high rates of fire at range, especially when those enemies start to level up. 

 

When Titania enters razorwing, she gets a 50% evasion buff and her razor flies take agro. 

The second power is her real survivability. The only reason Titania can survive in this bullet heck game is because enemies are not firing on her. 

In high level missions, enemies one shot the razor flies, meaning that Titania is soon to follow.  

 

I have several ideas for helping her survival along: (these are just my spitball suggestions, some contradict, and they should probably not all be implemented)

- Increase her energy pool. This will make her more viable for Quick Thinking builds for the people who want to try that method. It will also offset the ungodly cost of abilities like Tribute and Lantern, neither of which are currently worth the energy (maybe Lantern, I think that's debatable)

- Decrease her energy drain in Razorwing. Titania is a one-trick pony, sort of, okay she's a two trick pony.. She's a mobile weapons platform with some good/okay CC. Energy is life. 

- Make Tribute give actual survival buffs. Armor, damage reduction, have it generate new razor flies on every cast. The possibilities are ENDLESS. Please oh please do not leave us with these terrible buffs. Full Moon affects COMPANIONS. Guess who loses their companions in Razorwing form. You're almost certainly right!

- Ditch the evasion. As a survival power, evasion is <ahem> dicey. 50% chance to miss means that half the time, Titania just dies. She has 300 health 300 shield. At Sortie level (or approaching it) enough enemies will simply gelatinize Titania the moment her razor flies are down. Evasion should not be considered a damage mitigation power. Maybe for compulsive gamblers. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mabitude said:

Hm, if you can't survive on Titanias evasion bonus then I think you're doing it wrong. All you need to do is keep yourself mobile. Never stay in the air in the same spot for too long. Move from side to side while shooting.

You cant avoid bombalist or anti arch-wing turret no mater how much you mobile. ive even witness some grineer turn down my pixias flyer with mere gunshots.

Titania hit like a mad freightliner truck, But in term of survivor she have a low rate. And to all this add the fact Drone of arbistration take 0 damage from exalted weapons or frame skill. Her survivability chance drop by a LOT Since you need to switch from razorwing to normal mode and vise-versa. 

Edited by xcenic
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2 minutes ago, xcenic said:

You cant avoid bombalist or anti arch-wing turret no mater how much you mobile. ive even witness some grineer turn down my pixias flyer with mere gunshots.

Titania hit like a mad freightliner truck, But in term of survivor she have a low rate. And to all this add the fact Drone of arbistration take 0 damage from exalted weapons or frame skill. Her survivor chance drop by a LOT Since you need to switch from razorwing to normal mode and vise-versa. 

Well, it is true. What if you make use of the buffs from Tribute though?

Generally, though, Titania does need a rework in terms of her 1st and 3rd ability. 4th ability just wonderful. 2nd could want a tweak.

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11 minutes ago, Mabitude said:

Hm, if you can't survive on Titanias evasion bonus then I think you're doing it wrong. All you need to do is keep yourself mobile. Never stay in the air in the same spot for too long. Move from side to side while shooting.

This is not a matter of whether I can survive. I don't have a problem with living on non-sortie level content, with the exception of the Bombards and Vrrush turrets mentioned by xcenic. 

This is about Titania's survivability. If you can show me a video of your Titania surviving 40 minutes of Arbitration survival, without a Nezha slapping safeguard on you, then maybe I am wrong?

But seriously, take her into a Sortie 2 or 3 interception and let me know how you do. 

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Just now, mouseodoom said:

This is not a matter of whether I can survive. I don't have a problem with living on non-sortie level content, with the exception of the Bombards and Vrrush turrets mentioned by xcenic. 

This is about Titania's survivability. If you can show me a video of your Titania surviving 40 minutes of Arbitration survival, without a Nezha slapping safeguard on you, then maybe I am wrong?

But seriously, take her into a Sortie 2 or 3 interception and let me know how you do. 

I'll have a go at it sometime. I believe the Arbitration survival is near impossible, though, due to the fact that they are invincible against warframe damage, and as you said earlier, could put Titania in risk if she is going out of Razorwing form to shoot them down. That is a true risk, as she doesn't have much to account for. But lets not forget other frames that rely a lot on their damage as well.

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I want to be clear: I think Titania is an amazing Pixie Princess. Her Dex Pixia is insane. She's my main squeeze. 

But a decent 1 & 4 still means that half her kit is weak. Add to that the fact that she's a safe one-shot on any post-star chart content, she needs help. 

I actually like her #1. I think spellbind is a rocking ability. 

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1 hour ago, xcenic said:

You cant avoid bombalist or anti arch-wing turret no mater how much you mobile. ive even witness some grineer turn down my pixias flyer with mere gunshots.

Titania hit like a mad freightliner truck, But in term of survivor she have a low rate. And to all this add the fact Drone of arbistration take 0 damage from exalted weapons or frame skill. Her survivability chance drop by a LOT Since you need to switch from razorwing to normal mode and vise-versa. 

Mirage hit like a mad freightliner truck, But in term of survivor she have a low rate. And to all this add the fact Drone of arbistration take 0 damage from exalted weapons or frame skill. Her survivability chance drop by a LOT Since you can't switch from Hall of Mirrors to normal mode and vise-versa.

 

Mirage says hi 🙂

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The problem is how AI/player detection and aiming work in game... 50% evasion doesn't amount too much, once enemies have spotted you. Solution: Enemies should have a harder time to even notice Razorwing Titania is there, at least until she engages, and even then she should only be seen by her targets and those near them. Call it, limited invisibility...

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1 hour ago, mouseodoom said:

I like the idea of having razor flies regenerate in some way. Maybe Tribute or Lantern could synergize to produce some flies upon cast?

Spawn a Razorfly upon headshot kill during Razorwing.  Let the spawned Razorfly have 25% the defensive stats of the killed unit.  Cap of 6 Razorflies.

Let Aviator actually work on her when off the ground while in Razorwing.  Operator transition into/out of Razorwing.  That's all she needs.

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20 hours ago, WarBaby2 said:

The problem is how AI/player detection and aiming work in game... 50% evasion doesn't amount too much, once enemies have spotted you. Solution: Enemies should have a harder time to even notice Razorwing Titania is there, at least until she engages, and even then she should only be seen by her targets and those near them. Call it, limited invisibility...

Well it depends on how you look at it. 50% evasion is just that... 50% evasion, which is great. It is how the game is structured and scales that limits that feeling. You also get a hidden evasion modifier when you move around (and other maneuvers like aim glide and acrobatics) so moving around helps even more on Razorwing combined with what little maneuvers you can do in archwing mode. Combined with Tribute: Dust, you lower enemy accuracy giving you more effective evasion.

However evasion isn't meant to be reliable on its own and never has been. The problem comes in that its a game of chance as you go higher in the levels. The way enemies decide to "aim" is not very different than that of relic/rotation rewards. The engine assigns numbers to points and randomly generates firing positions/solutions. What does evasion do? It shifts those numbers to areas located for misses. So 50% of the numbers generated that would have hit you are now going to miss (baring certain thresholds programed in). Tribute: Dust in contrast lowers enemy accuracy which in turn moves more of those numbers to misses. Keep in mind that all these modifiers are percentages so they likely have diminished returns. But you are going to get hit eventually, in the same way as you'll get that 2-5% drop from a drop/rotation/reward, its just a matter of statistics. Another factor is hitscan weaponry which is almost all hit detection dependent even though projectile weaponry have enemies slightly compensating to hit you on the move (the main reason ancients hook you out of the air; one reason to vary your movement direction and speed often). But if you are going to get hit and that is going to kill you (in higher levels it is more likely) that is her base survivability like any other frame, evasion is just a stat that may or may not delay your demise. It is not a protection stat like DR (unless you can hit that mythical 100% evasion like Turbulence on Zephyr does pseudo-ly). I suppose the better question after all of that is whether 50% is too low knowing what will eventually and inevitably happen (though on the other hand Razorwing is very powerful already in its own right). Though we should also keep in mind that a generated missed shot that you move into is an accidental hit which is a byproduct of evasion not necessarily the fault of it.

That being said Bombards and Vraash turrets (imo unfairly) cheat evasion because they have hard tracking that barely breaks. Their attacks generally chase you until they hit something. Even Turbulence can fail to rid them. I have seen a bombard rocket ricochet off the wind barrier like 5 times while circling until it bounced off into the floor. They basically have unmitigated accuracy once they fire.

While your solution thematically is neat and would mimic actual perception a bit better, the way enemies behave when alerted would make it fairly useless. If we could bypass that it is also fairly powerful if she could float outside detection radius and utterly destroy everything.

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3 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

While your solution thematically is neat and would mimic actual perception a bit better, the way enemies behave when alerted would make it fairly useless. If we could bypass that it is also fairly powerful if she could float outside detection radius and utterly destroy everything.

True, but it wouldn't be that bad, since you already can get out of reach/line of fire quite easily and quickly... another, less cheap option, would be some form of target lock warning when in Razorwing, which you could counter by releasing "fairydust" as countermeasures, letting enemies loose track of you... maybe by holding the ability button?

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1 hour ago, WarBaby2 said:

True, but it wouldn't be that bad, since you already can get out of reach/line of fire quite easily and quickly... another, less cheap option, would be some form of target lock warning when in Razorwing, which you could counter by releasing "fairydust" as countermeasures, letting enemies loose track of you... maybe by holding the ability button?

I would love a target lock warning in RW. Casting Spellbind in the air or shifting out of RW should drop the missile lock. 

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