The core gameplay flaw: healing, health, shields and general "staying alive" gameplay

[TheLexiConArtist]

22 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Fair point, but I think this is fairly irrelevant assuming that the % restore is calculated off of total modded health and not just base Warframe base health.

I'm hard-pressed to think of a Warframe that can hit <300 HP, and even at 10% that's still more than a normal health orb restores today (30 HP vs. 25). Combined with higher availability that should be fine for them.

That said, I'm not against forcing a minimum value.

I think the scaling orb drop chance applies to lockers only, which would make this type of exploitation fairly limited in scope and long-term effect.

If some player wants to backtrack for X rooms to go pick up a health orb, I say let 'em. Most players won't bother and there's the risk of the orb being overwritten by new loot (especially with an orb cap) before they use it anyway.

I think that downside is fair. Orb waste comes with the territory of using Vacuum, and the more frequent drops should ensure a reasonably steady supply.

Note that the intention is not to allow player to survive while taking intense damage, but rather to help them keep up with attrition in between encounters. Each encounter should generate new orbs.

Warframes fresh off the assembly line do have that little health, at least until the ranks (and/or mods) roll in. Don't want to exacerbate the newbie problem by giving them ~5hp per orb.

The minimum flat value is also there to address any concerns of "I was only missing 20 hp so the orb gave me 1 health, wtf" as part of the whole.

Exploitativeness sort of an afterthought, but I know how quickly people jump on even the most frayed thread of an idea to shoot down suggestions.

Moving to the missing health model as a whole (not just for locker orbs) should theoretically manage the flow a lot better, keeping the value in line with the current 'need' without giving the players a health threshold to reach where every health orb is guaranteed to provide so much, it's almost a god-mode. It also still doesn't help as much during the fight itself because the more health is missing by the time you pop an orb out (be it from container or enemy) and try to grab it, the more risk there is of the remaining enemies finishing you off before you get there, right?

Edited October 29, 2018 by EDYinnit

[DiabolusUrsus]

16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Warframes fresh off the assembly line do have that little health, at least until the ranks (and/or mods) roll in. Don't want to exacerbate the newbie problem by giving them ~5hp per orb.

Good catch and great point. Think the classic 25 should be enough as a minimum with the increased drops in play?

16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

The minimum flat value is also there to address any concerns of "I was only missing 20 hp so the orb gave me 1 health, wtf" as part of the whole.

Ahhh, I overlooked the change from % total to % missing.

16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Exploitativeness sort of an afterthought, but I know how quickly people jump on even the most frayed thread of an idea to shoot down suggestions.

Fair enough.

16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Moving to the missing health model as a whole (not just for locker orbs) should theoretically manage the flow a lot better, keeping the value in line with the current 'need' without giving the players a health threshold to reach where every health orb is guaranteed to provide so much, it's almost a god-mode. It also still doesn't help as much during the fight itself because the more health is missing by the time you pop an orb out (be it from container or enemy) and try to grab it, the more risk there is of the remaining enemies finishing you off before you get there, right?

True, and nice touch. I think I understand your suggestion a bit better now; you've convinced me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, Artek94 said:

They really do out of context... Had to go back and re-read my own posts to remember what i was talking about.

I meant that in the context of choosing between many healing methods and having at least some fun.
In other words: [Life Strike] is a better (more fun) option than others, but still isn't quiet fun enough (it disrupts me from gameplay i came for - shooting with guns). The lesser of two evils.

Ahh OK so.... It's not fun, except for when it is, and even then it's really not. Got it. 

4 hours ago, Artek94 said:

As for Nidus... I simply don't play him. I do sometimes - especially after they released his deluxe skin - but i'm not fanatical about it. At the very least - i still don't feel comfortable with playing him. And i don't mean his gameplay - i mean his fashion, the way he feels to be played.

Right, Nidus has the health regen, and you don't play him, except for when you do, but you don't really enjoy it, because of the "not quite Fashionframe", which I can actually totally understand. Because like I said I really disliked Vauban for reasons not too different from what you described, he just didn't "feel" right even when I figured out how to perform the changes of the types of mines. Something was just off. I suppose someday I'll try and get the Prime but probably not today. 

4 hours ago, Artek94 said:

And about Ember - yes, its to make sure ring hits as many enemies as possible, while also hoping that enemies wont shoot me because they get an accuracy debuff when you bullet jump.

OK I think that I can see. But I'm not quite sure that I'm convinced going up and then spamming fireblast is the best option. 

5 hours ago, Artek94 said:

As for energy - nope, that's not from orbs. Which are a whole other issues on their own... That's from [Rage] i have installed literally in every single warframe of mine.

Wait.... You've built every frame around Rage? A mod that is only of use if you take damage to health? A mod that benefits when you build and act in a way that encourages you to take significant damage? 

And this... is a thread, about you taking significant damage to health... and having to deal with..... 😦

 

[Artekkor]

1 час назад, (PS4)guzmantt1977 сказал:

Wait.... You've built every frame around Rage? A mod that is only of use if you take damage to health? A mod that benefits when you build and act in a way that encourages you to take significant damage? 

And this... is a thread, about you taking significant damage to health... and having to deal with..... 

You didn't understand.

I didn't start putting [Rage] on my warframes and then run off to take all the damage in the world.
Its the opposite correlation: at some point taking damage to health just became a common pattern. Heavy units like bombards, napalms, corpus techs and those goddamn grineer cat women can pretty much take you out solo by the time they hit levels somewhere between 35-45 and it just gets worse from there. Don't even get me started on those grineer stationary turrets, that deal no damage to our enemies when we use them - but when they do, they just tear you apart.

[Rage] became my Plan-B emergency response mod for those exact occasions, so that at the very least i had energy to retaliate (provided i won't get oneshoted right then and there, which happens surprisingly often at inapropriate enemy levels).
Even if that's not going to work: at the very least if one of the teammates will bother to revive me - i will be revived with a considerable energy pool and lots of opportunities for furhet actions.
The ONLY warframe right now who doesn't have [Rage] on is Limbo, and even then that's an experiment. A fairly succesfull one and only because Limbo has a reliable free-to-use option to escape into the safety of the rift whenever the hell he wants to.

Again: i did not build myself around [Rage], it was a logical and pragmatic response to the fact that health loss is simply inevitable and i don't want to be taken down zero-energy-naked without a proper fight.
When wouldn't i use it? Well i know when - if i only played the game at <30 levels, if i played Trinity, or used energy restores every 30 seconds.
But we already established that i'm not not a newcomer, i'm not playing Trinity for role-playing reasons, and especially not touching those restores unless i absolutely can't be bothered and just want for mission to end ASAP. Which by definition means that i'm not having fun in that mission to begin with, so nothing is lost.
Thankfully, that does not happen often.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Artek94