Chat suspension - second coming

[Akaruy]

I posted a topic about the (apparently) frequent chat suspensions happening lately. As I was still salty about the one I got (which, by the way, I believe was because I told a bot to F off in a direct message) I was rather biased towards the whole thing and probably didn't express myself correctly. I'll try again to leave actual feedback this time.

First of all, I was rather put out that I didn't receive any kind of notification when this happened: no saying why (though in hindsight, I guess in my case it was pretty obvious), no information on how long it would be, or of what would happen if I repeated my infraction. This I feel is needed. I know this is probably all stuff you can find in the forums, but I barely go to the forums and I doubt I'm the only one, so maybe adding an indication of length, reason and consequences of future breaches would be useful.

Secondly, I feel the length of the suspension is too much, especially as my case was a first offense. Today is my fifth day without access to the chat. If DE wants to suspend people for weeks at a time for using racial slurs or for insulting transgender people, I can understand that, but but being suspended for five days for a generic swear word that was not even used on a public channel feels a bit much.

All in all, I probably simply won't use public chats anymore. Even if people say it's only swear words and slurs that will get you suspended, I don't feel like risking that the other side is right and just saying some random word will get my account banned.

 

That's all. Have a nice day everyone.

[Gokuofuin]

7 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

Today is my fifth day without access to the chat

YOUR 5th DAY! OH NOOOOOOOOsssss whatever are you going to do...

🎭

You want my 5c on this? Dont use chat. Period. Use Discord its better

[WhiteMarker]

4 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

which, by the way, I believe was because I told a bot to F off in a direct message

And why would you do that?
The bot is monitored by staff members from time to time. So you basically told a staff member to F off. Smart...

Why did you make a second thread?
Just use your first Thread instead of making a second one.

 

6 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

First of all, I was rather put out that I didn't receive any kind of notification when this happened: no saying why (though in hindsight, I guess in my case it was pretty obvious), no information on how long it would be, or of what would happen if I repeated my infraction. This I feel is needed.

Or maybe just use common sense like all the people not getting banned at all.
Seems pretty easy.
And without this kind of notification this whole thing is an even better punishment, don't you think?
If you want information, you could always ask support.

 

7 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

Secondly, I feel the length of the suspension is too much, especially as my case was a first offense.

And exactly because you're thinking that way the length is perfectly fine.
You feel punished by your punishment. That's the idea of the whole process. This way you will think about what you did and you won't do it again.
Or maybe you will do it again, because you didn't learn anything. (But that's another story)

 

9 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

All in all, I probably simply won't use public chats anymore. Even if people say it's only swear words and slurs that will get you suspended, I don't feel like risking that the other side is right and just saying some random word will get my account banned.

No random word will get you banned. People proved that a lot of times already.
As you said, don't use insults. You will be fine.

[Akaruy]

1 minute ago, Gokuofuin said:

YOUR 5th DAY! OH NOOOOOOOOsssss whatever are you going to do...

 

Forgive me if I find being able to talk to my clan, invite them around, and being capable of DM those I wish to speak with important.

But yeah. I won't use any chat outside of discord and DMs from now on.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

26 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

First of all, I was rather put out that I didn't receive any kind of notification when this happened

This is the only valid point here. I do wish that people would be notified as to why and how long. 

 

27 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

Secondly, I feel the length of the suspension is too much, especially as my case was a first offense. 

And I feel that it should be much, much longer. Because I am reasonably certain that it is not your first offence. That would have been whatever caused the bot to message you in the first place. So.. If this were my call I'd be willing to double down on your suspension, the same way that you decided to double down by hurling obscenities at the bot. But it's not my call. 

 

37 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

All in all, I probably simply won't use public chats anymore.

That's probably for the best. Not because you would be likely to be banned for some random word, but because you don't seem to really understand that you did something wrong. You aren't upset that you used language that the developers have decided shouldn't be used, just that you got a greater punishment than you would have liked. 

[Fallen_Echo]

38 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

maybe just use common sense like all the people not getting banned at all.

Im pretty sure you are not the guy who said good with a k on its end instead of a d, tried to say japanese shortened or literally said "dont say the n-word because you will get banned" and got banned for it.

Also you might not know this but not everybody is from the US or goes around with a copy of the urban dictionary in their hands to see if they might used some absurd other language insult.

42 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

You feel punished by your punishment. That's the idea of the whole process

Punishment without information is as successful as the ET Extra Terrestial game was. Just looking at the constant amount of various feedback created about the chat moderation should reflect just how unsuccessful the whole thing is and if the mods wouldnt delete constantly we would swim in them already.

 

49 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

No random word will get you banned. People proved that a lot of times already.
As you said, don't use insults. You will be fine.

I suggest to go and write in the chat "Vauban is a trapper warframe with his mines and laser traps" or better just use the word in my first paragraph.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Punishment without information is as successful as the ET Extra Terrestial game was. 

I had that game. Making the flower grow was a nice thing. 

[WhiteMarker]

9 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im pretty sure you are not the guy who said good with a k on its end instead of a d, tried to say japanese shortened or literally said "dont say the n-word because you will get banned" and got banned for it.

Also you might not know this but not everybody is from the US or goes around with a copy of the urban dictionary in their hands to see if they might used some absurd other language insult.

I'm from germany, and I know just some basics about the english language and about urban dictionary. And no chat ban so far...
Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

10 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I suggest to go and write in the chat "Vauban is a trapper warframe with his mines and laser traps" or better just use the word in my first paragraph.

I just did, and nothing happened. What point did you try to make? óÒ

Spoiler

 

[Akaruy]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And I feel that it should be much, much longer. Because I am reasonably certain that it is not your first offence. That would have been whatever caused the bot to message you in the first place. So.. If this were my call I'd be willing to double down on your suspension, the same way that you decided to double down by hurling obscenities at the bot. But it's not my call.

 

That's probably for the best. Not because you would be likely to be banned for some random word, but because you don't seem to really understand that you did something wrong. You aren't upset that you used language that the developers have decided shouldn't be used, just that you got a greater punishment than you would have liked. 

the bot originally kicked me from chat for using all-caps on a word. Not an entire sentence, but a single word. Admittedly, it was stupid and wrong of me to lash out at a bot, but in my defense spirits were kind of high at the moment and I didn't really think about what I was doing.

 

I do understand that what I did was wrong. The only reason I won't use chat anymore is exactly that I fear I might get banned for some random word. And I feel the developers have expanded what they feel is offensive to be way too broad.

Also, what I got is not punishing, it's just frustrating. You might believe this is the same thing, but it's not. When you feel punished, you realize why you're being punished and probably won't do it again under normal circumstances. But if you are frustrated it just makes you want to act out more. This isn't just my opinion, it's the stuff they teach you when you study education.

I already know you should not use foul language, or use slurs of any kind. In any normal converstion, I wouldn't. But because I acted without thinking, this is what I got. And that's okay. Next time I'll avoid the situation. But don't try to claim this will teach anyone anything, cause it won't.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

17 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

the bot originally kicked me from chat for using all-caps on a word. Not an entire sentence, but a single word. Admittedly, it was stupid and wrong of me to lash out at a bot, but in my defense spirits were kind of high at the moment and I didn't really think about what I was doing

There we go. So it wasn't your first offence. That's also not a good defense. It's the sort of defense people use to justify their actions. You shouldn't have done that, the end, no more excuses. 

17 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

The only reason I won't use chat anymore is exactly that I fear I might get banned for some random word. 

I already addressed that. Saying it again won't garner any additional sympathy from me. 

17 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

And I feel the developers have expanded what they feel is offensive to be way too broad.

That's possible, but it's their house and that's their right. 

17 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

Also, what I got is not punishing, it's just frustrating. You might believe this is the same thing, but it's not. When you feel punished, you realize why you're being punished and probably won't do it again under normal circumstances.

I draw reference to your repeated decision to avoid region chat in the future because you wish to avoid repeating the error. It seems to have been effective. 

17 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

But if you are frustrated it just makes you want to act out more. This isn't just my opinion, it's the stuff they teach you when you study education.

You can let us know how that works out for you if you decide to go that route. So far it hasn't for any of the others, but you know, it might be your lucky day. 

You've got to ask yourself one question. "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, Tenno? 😁

 

19 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

I already know you should not use foul language, or use slurs of any kind. In any normal converstion, I wouldn't. But because I acted without thinking, this is what I got. And that's okay. Next time I'll avoid the situation. But don't try to claim this will teach anyone anything, cause it won't.

Yeah well, looks like you did relearn something that you'd forgotten. Maybe you might have learned to try and keep your head. Maybe you didn't learn anything at all. 

I don't know. 

[Akaruy]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

There we go. So it wasn't your first offence. That's also not a good defense. It's the sort of defense people use to justify their actions. You shouldn't have done that, the end, no more excuses. 

I already addressed that. Saying it again won't garner any additional sympathy from me. 

That's possible, but it's their house and that's their right. 

I draw reference to your repeated decision to avoid region chat in the future because you wish to avoid repeating the error. It seems to have been effective. 

You can let us know how that works out for you if you decide to go that route. So far it hasn't for any of the others, but you know, it might be your lucky day. 

You've got to ask yourself one question. "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, Tenno? 😁

 

Yeah well, looks like you did relearn something that you'd forgotten. Maybe you might have learned to try and keep your head. Maybe you didn't learn anything at all. 

I don't know. 

well, since my points seem to mean nothing to you, I'd like to ask you something:

What will you do when you spell something wrong, that mispelled word ends up spelled like some racial slur, and you get a suspension of two weeks?

I'm not saying this is what happened to me (we already enstablished what happened), nor that this is the majority of cases. But it is a consequence of having such a broad spectrum of "offensive language" and I would like to know what your reaction could be.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Akaruy

[Darkuhn]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb Akaruy:

well, since my points seem to mean nothing to you, I'd like to ask you something:

What will you do when you spell something wrong, that mispelled word ends up spelled like some racial slur, and you get a suspension of two weeks?

I'm not saying this is what happened to me (we already enstablished what happened), nor that this is the majority of cases. But it is a consequence of having such a broad spectrum of "offensive language" and I would like to know what your reaction could be.

in this case i would submit a Support ticket and wait for the answer instead of making a forum post about it.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

46 minutes ago, Akaruy said:

well, since my points seem to mean nothing to you, I'd like to ask you something:

What will you do when you spell something wrong, that mispelled word ends up spelled like some racial slur, and you get a suspension of two weeks?

I'm not saying this is what happened to me (we already enstablished what happened), nor that this is the majority of cases. But it is a consequence of having such a broad spectrum of "offensive language" and I would like to know what your reaction could be.

Probably absolutely nothing, because there's nothing I can do to force them to revoke my punishment. 

I would try and contact support and make my case, asking them to review the logs and see if it looks like a genuine mistake. If they decided not to bother with my request, or took two weeks to respond, then, once again I'd be out of luck. 

It's their house and their rules. 

 

In the mean time I've been active on a thread that's been advocating for a change to the system, Fallen_Echo started it a few months ago. 

In general I think that his proposals are positive changes, and are at least no worse than what we currently have. Chief among them is a better system for informing people about why they've been banned and for how long. I also strongly favour the incremental nature of the punishments, and the freedom for the moderators/support to apply significantly longer chat bans if they feel that it is warranted. 

 

But at no point has that conversation ever been about what should be banned only about what we should do about the system for punishing those who do break the rules. 

 

That's a well thought out thread that isn't about "I was banned and shouldn't have been.. Or well yeah I should have, but not for so long, all I did was". It's one that accepts that the Devs feel that a system is needed, but the system that exists has problems. So we're suggesting what might improve the system. 

 

[Darkuhn]

Also if remind correctly making a new thread about the same Topic(and nearly identical OP) when an earlier Thread was locked down is against forum rules.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Darkuhn

[Cleesus]

The user above me is correct, if you notice that your thread has been moderated it is not okay to repost it without contacting one of us first. If you understand what you have done wrong in regards to being banned from chat, then the only thing to do now is to wait out your ban. 

 

If you want to discuss ideas for improving the chat moderation system (PS4)guzmantt1977 has linked you to a thread to do so.