Cervantes, Earth Drop Tables

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

It is a ridiculous farm to get Kubrow mods. Aside from the (nerfed) painful method of "take MK1-Furis, tap Kubrow den, melee Kubrow, desecrate with Nekros, repeat" there is the "better" way of farming Earth Sabotage's caches. And oh boy does farming these caches suck.

The drop table is plain horrible. Rotation A is composed entirely of credit caches. I assume this is because most newbies would only find one cache when they run the mission for the first time and could use the credits. Rotation B is composed of higher end credit caches, pitiful amounts of endo, resource amounts that are literally only three deposits big, and a Kubrow egg. Out of all of these the Kubrow Egg and the credit caches (and the Neurode I suppose for newbies) are the only meaningful rewards and the rest are absolute, utter crap. Endo alerts give better Endo, not to mention that getting as far as even a Venus Dark Sector will reward more endo in simply mod drops. Kubrow egg was nice but with the god-awful inventory limit removed it no longer has a purpose. Rotation C is depressing. Pitiful amounts of Endo, single use full health restores, a single Neurode, rare and highly usable companion mods, and Forma. 75.6 percent of the rewards from Rotation C are crap to anyone who has the ability to find 3 freaking caches on the Earth tileset, leaving necessary pet mods locked to a stupidly low drop rate, and a nice occasional bonus of Forma. I have no idea why the caches are set up like this. Finding a single cache is possible for some MR3 Excalibur doing the mission for the first time and the reward is appropriate. Finding a second cache, I guess if the Excalibur wanted to "do his best" at the mission is possible and technically rewards fairly. The third cache will take well over half an hour to find (I've done it) and rewards things technically useful to that Excalibur, and absolutely useless to anyone who got to Ceres. So farming these caches frequently produces feelings of "wasted time just finding the first one, second one has a chance to reward something that I already have too much of and nothing else of use, and the third one will just produce rage." And this is the only mission where those mods are reliably dropping.

The time it takes to do the mission is painful, mostly because of the tile set. I've not heavily farmed Sabotage missions. But I would estimate the average amount of time I spend on a Galleon sabotage would be 10-15 minutes to find all the caches with an Ignis. Orokin Sabotage would be 20-30 because of how massive those towers are and the many, many branching pathways. I tried farming Hive Sabotage, but I chose to instead spend the dollars to buy Baro just for all the electric dual stat mods, though the armor was also worth the ticket price. But on Earth, the tileset isn't simple to breeze through and doesn't give nice rewards like Orokin towers. It is as difficult to move through and as dull as when I tried farming Hive Sabotage. Unlike Infested Sabotage Baro doesn't have every mod I could ever wish to just out right buy. I could buy the mods from Warframe Market, but ironically that would eat up all my plat I was saving for stasis pods. Looking at the Market right now it seems I would need to spend in the ballpark of 100 plat to get all the Earth Sabotage mods. While granted the majority of that cost is located into bite, having to decide between being able to use Kubrows and Kavats or being able to make them period is a horrible choice. So being stuck with farming them, I'm left with confusion. Why would the cache rewards for a mission that a new player is unlikely to do more than once, and has reason to be farmed by a late-game player, reward almost exclusively to a new one? That and the late-game player's the one with the capacity to actually farm it in a method that doesn't take up a whole day. Having Loot Detector, Theif's Wit, and Animal Instinct all required and leveled up requires having significantly invested into the game already, playing enough to hit the infrequent aura alerts and also farming Nightmare missions which can only be done daily on a completed planet, and that's just so the player can see where the caches are with reliable success. Having Stretch, Overextended, Cunning Drift, and Augur Reach requires having played normal play, succesfully completing Derelict Corrupted mod farming, completing the Second Dream and completing the Halls of Ascension on Lua, and playing high level Plains missions, require even more investment than the Loot Detection, to put onto a Limbo to streamline the loot gathering process. Having 175% Efficiency with Streamline and Fleeting Expertise is something nearly anyone could do, but still something that a person who would benefit from the current sabotage caches simply would not have.

Here's my commendation in light of the previous two paragraphs explaining why the caches would not be how they are, at all.

Rotation A - 50% Credit Cache, 50% Hastened Deflection.

Still a useful reward for the very important new player doing the mission for the first time but also rewarding the least valued and least useful Kubrow mod in the drop tables as a sort of foreshadow for Howl of the Kubrow.

Rotation B - 20% Link Health, 20% Link Armor, 20% Link Shields, 12% Credit Cache, 12% Endo, 12% Resource, 2% Kubrow Egg

The most important mods necessary to utilizing a Kubrow, which are as important as Vacuum and precepts on a Sentinel, are easily obtained without tremendous difficulty. The useful rewards for new player terrible for anyone at Ceres rewards are still there, and the classic Kubrow Egg still remains for rare find purposes.

Rotation C - 35% Maul, 35% Bite, 20% Endo, 4% Forma Blueprint, 1% Forma

I know this looks like I'm just desperate for these mods, one of which is going for crazy amounts on Warframe Market currently, but hear me out. Reliably finding three caches in an unoptimized manner can only be done by a high level player trimming down the time it takes. In terms of effort versus reward for reasons previous discussed, this rotation has to provide the absolute best and be worthwhile to do. In addition I put the Link mods on Rotation B because they were necessary, but these mods are the ones that could be considered unlocking the full power of but more or less unneeded for the "basic" build in terms of Kubrows.

The biggest criticism here is of course the lack of the typical dummy prizes that most mission reward. But if DE truly wants beast companions (and possibly MOAs) to be viable compared to Sentinels, and short of a complete rework of beast mods to be all useful, the method of acquisition for the mods has to be fixed so that way people who want to use Kubrows but are unable to can actually use the beast companions that already require not insignificant investment into. I did the quest, farmed the Eggs, got the Nutrio Segment, and made the Cores, but the mods are the thing holding me back from any of those previous investments having any meaning. Adding fetch means nothing if a freaking Orokin designed guard dog has less effective survival than some floating toaster.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Grey_Star_Rival_Defender

[krc473]

38 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

The third cache will take well over half an hour to find (I've done it)

You should do it faster. It should not take more than about 10 minutes. Find some people to help you search. Most of your paragraphs seem to be taken up with "cache farming takes too long". Once you figure out where the caches can be, it is incredibly easy. You do not even need to farm caches. Drahks can drop the mod. Nekros + Pilf Hydroid, kill all the Drahks and avoid killing the masters. That will likely get you one faster than Cache farming (it will be more interesting too).

 

You can get Bite through transmutation. I have gotten about a dozen that way. Last one I sold was for 35 plat (unranked). The market suggests that about 60 - 70 platinum would be reasonable for it.

 

The problem with your reward set up is that you are making stuff too common. Maul is an uncommon mod, Bite is rare. There is no logical reason they should have the same drop chance. I get that you want Bite. But that changes nothing. DE should not make a rare mod as common as an uncommon mod. Which both have a drop chance more fitting of a common mod.

[Zi-Sui]

I didn't know it was so easy to get them from transmuting. Maybe I should get into that too, glad I saved all my rare mods for this.

But yeah, if something is too rare to farm and can be traded, you're better off farming platinum and buying it from players.

A lot of things in this game have bad drop rates, like that rare archwing mod that drops from dargyns, and Condition Overload. It's a way DE do things. Nobody would bother transmuting if all mods were easily enough to obtain via farming.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

You should do it faster. It should not take more than about 10 minutes. Find some people to help you search. Most of your paragraphs seem to be taken up with "cache farming takes too long". Once you figure out where the caches can be, it is incredibly easy. You do not even need to farm caches. Drahks can drop the mod. Nekros + Pilf Hydroid, kill all the Drahks and avoid killing the masters. That will likely get you one faster than Cache farming (it will be more interesting too).

 

You can get Bite through transmutation. I have gotten about a dozen that way. Last one I sold was for 35 plat (unranked). The market suggests that about 60 - 70 platinum would be reasonable for it.

 

The problem with your reward set up is that you are making stuff too common. Maul is an uncommon mod, Bite is rare. There is no logical reason they should have the same drop chance. I get that you want Bite. But that changes nothing. DE should not make a rare mod as common as an uncommon mod. Which both have a drop chance more fitting of a common mod.

It would seem I forgot to write down my average times for farming it with a slightly sub-optimal Limbo. It’s 6 minutes mission time. When I reference any time that finding the third cache takes forever, I was using an unoptimized set up. Much like someone who isn’t an end-game player would. Who the drop table seems to have in mind.

Drahks and Feral Kubrows have even worse drop rates than cache farming. You have more chances but they aren’t guarnteed to drop a mod, and their drop chances for the mods that you can obtain from caches are slim, making it overall a less effective method. So no, it will not be “faster and more interesting” like you stated.

I don’t have an interest in bypassing a horrible drop table through a game of chance. The fact you suggested transmutation shows that the current drop table is horrible and needs a change. Last I checked transmutation was for finding rare mods that are difficult to get. Kubrow mods that are needed to make the beasts viable fit into that description. They cannot fit in that description in the future if DE wants them to be usable.

On the contrary the rarity of a mod only has pratical meaning in terms of the cost it takes to upgrade it. In the current cache drop table Bite, a rare mod, has the same drop chance as 5 other uncommon mods. On Defense drop tables, Hell’s Chamber, a rare mod, has the same drop chances as silver mods. In your own Drahk example, Drahks have an equal chance of dropping Bite, a rare mod, along with dropping Breed-specific mods, which are all commons. So unless DE is not following their own game design, uncommons and rares generally have the same drop chances, so my suggestion is perfectly fine.

5 hours ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

I didn't know it was so easy to get them from transmuting. Maybe I should get into that too, glad I saved all my rare mods for this.

But yeah, if something is too rare to farm and can be traded, you're better off farming platinum and buying it from players.

A lot of things in this game have bad drop rates, like that rare archwing mod that drops from dargyns, and Condition Overload. It's a way DE do things. Nobody would bother transmuting if all mods were easily enough to obtain via farming.

If something’s too rare and it’s better off being farmed from other players, it’s generally either a very strong but not baseline needed in builds such as Condition Overload or Shotgun Amp, neither of which are needed but both of which are very strong. Or Kavat Genetic Codes which are also easier to aquire with plat but they’re somewhat reasonably priced, and drop from alerts. Bite and Maul fall into that category of being strong but unneeded. None of the other Kubrow mods do, on the basis they’re worthless like Hastened Deflection, or needed like Link mods.

Transmutation farming is fine for some things. But if it remains the seemingly only reasonable method of gaining the literal basic Kubrow mods, then Kubrows will remain inferior to Sentinels for good. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Grey_Star_Rival_Defender

[Wind_Blade]

Honestly theses mods are goods like their are, sure it's a pain of ass if you want to farm them, but in first places you shouldn't farm thems.

Kubrow mods has been designed for being aquired for playings the game. You don't get them by farming them, but by playing the game normally.

Just do wathever you want, in some mounth or one year, you should have every one of them.

Personnaly i have 5 exemplary of each rare mods of kubrow on two years of gameplay on my reroll (lost my account two years ago --)

 

So yea, if you're impatient, buy them, if you're patient, just play the game

 

Their are other mods like that you don't get by farming but by playing the game and their drop will not change just because you want that every item are fast to get or farmable.

 

And honestly.. rota C 20-30% is a lot comparyly to others drop rates that we have in this game

Edited October 25, 2018 by Wind_Blade

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

26 minutes ago, Wind_Blade said:

Honestly theses mods are goods like their are, sure it's a pain of ass if you want to farm them, but in first places you shouldn't farm thems.

Kubrow mods has been designed for being aquired for playings the game. You don't get them by farming them, but by playing the game normally.

Just do wathever you want, in some mounth or one year, you should have every one of them.

Personnaly i have 5 exemplary of each rare mods of kubrow on two years of gameplay on my reroll (lost my account two years ago --)

 

So yea, if you're impatient, buy them, if you're patient, just play the game

 

Their are other mods like that you don't get by farming but by playing the game and their drop will not change just because you want that every item are fast to get or farmable.

 

And honestly.. rota C 20-30% is a lot comparyly to others drop rates that we have in this game

Source? Explanation for “it’s against the design to farm them”? Because as far as I can tell you’re refrering to passively getting them from extremely lucky Drahk drops. I’ve been playing since December of last year, it’s now the end of October, and the only time any of those mods dropped was from farming the Sabatoge caches. So no I don’t have “every one of them” from just “playing normally.”

There are other mods you can only aquire by just playing the game because the farm for them is so ridiculous that it’s literally impossible. Quick Thinking, Condition Overload, and Coolant Leak are impossible to farm for. I’ll repeat myself again and again. These mods need to be easily accessible or else there continues to be no point to using Kubrows. It does not matter what I want. What matters is that even DE admitted there’s a problem with using Kubrows. The point is to fix that.

The amounts listed are high, yes, but there’s literally no other point to the node other thsn farming Kubrow mods. The other rewards are useless, except for anyone who hasn’t gotten to Venus yet.

[Wind_Blade]

Source of what ? the other way to gain except doing caches ? wiki

I like never do theses cache missions and i have like 5 of each... so yea.. you can get them by playing passivly

And farm them.. a loot at 35% ? i don't call that a farm.

It's terribly high for a drop you want even if you need to find these easy to find caches

And yea like you say their are mods you can get only by playing the game

And even with theses mods kubrow have no point of being useds

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Let me repeat myself.

"Source? Explanation of 'it's against the design to farm them'?" I'm asking for that, not "source for where I can find the mods that I previously demonstrated I know of how to get other than cache missions." Please don't waste my time.

It's a terribly high drop because there's nothing else there. And yes, the caches are easy to find the actual drop tables are the things that's ridiculous. Can you please read the previous points rather than making wild assumptions? Side note: If you've never done the mission how do you know they're easy to find? It's a true statement I'm just wondering how.

I did not say these are mods you can get by playing the game. Please read what I wrote. Of course my reply depends on your usage  In addition, it does not matter if Kubrow's have a reason of being used, that opinion has no relevance here, because with the current drop tables it is impossible to even begin using them.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Grey_Star_Rival_Defender

[krc473]

4 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

The fact you suggested transmutation shows that the current drop table is horrible and needs a change.

I got two bite mods from the wild Kubrows. I got many from transmutation too. But I was not attempting to find those. I was trying to get other mods, but I happened to get a bunch of Bite mods. If you have rare mods and credits to burn, why not try it?

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

4 hours ago, krc473 said:

I got two bite mods from the wild Kubrows. I got many from transmutation too. But I was not attempting to find those. I was trying to get other mods, but I happened to get a bunch of Bite mods. If you have rare mods and credits to burn, why not try it?

I can save up mods for a few weeks and then some Simaris standing and try and get them via transmutation. I probably will try. I have the literal worst luck with Feral Kubrows as they drop worthless breed mods for me instead of the rarer and more useful Link Mods. Or Maul. Or Bite. Sometimes they drop more basic mods like Loyal Companion. Sometimes.

I still stand by this OP that the sabotage drop tables need to change, and need to change badly. The other methods of obtaining the mod are something I don't have an interest in altering, just making sabotage caches a fair way to get Kubrow mods. Half tempted to alter the drop table to include more dummy prizes in DE style, and include the basic Kubrow mods (Loyal Companion, etc) in Rotation A.

[krc473]

31 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I still stand by this OP that the sabotage drop tables need to change, and need to change badly.

You can stand by it all you like. The issue is that DE would not implement it with those drop chances. I cannot see them giving Bite over about a 2% drop chance. 

[Urlan]

I can feel you on sabotage caches having terrible rewards, and would look forward to these being given more desirable gear to get for the time invested in searching them out and running otherwise no reward missions.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

You can stand by it all you like. The issue is that DE would not implement it with those drop chances. I cannot see them giving Bite over about a 2% drop chance. 

Then at the very least do you agree that the current way things are Kubrow mods need a significant change in acquisition?

 

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

I can feel you on sabotage caches having terrible rewards, and would look forward to these being given more desirable gear to get for the time invested in searching them out and running otherwise no reward missions.

With the current amount of time invested I would not say the rewards are worth it at all. Upgrades for an inferior companion choice (till Fetch gets added) that require 20K endo for the silver mods and 30K for the one gold, a forma for each to slot them onto said companion so at max four possibly 5 forma used, that requires daily maintenance alongside an expensive Clan tech upgrade just to make usable. Objectively speaking as of current they're just plain not worth the time and effort it takes.

[krc473]

11 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Then at the very least do you agree that the current way things are Kubrow mods need a significant change in acquisition?

I cannot judge that. I had no real issues getting the Kubrow/Kavat mods. So, as far as I am concerned it is perfectly fine. I got them ages ago and a lot has changed since then.

• I got all mods easily. Bite was on an event at the time.

You make it sound a little complicated though. I do not know if that is just from the explanation(s) or not.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

On 2018-10-25 at 11:32 PM, krc473 said:

I cannot judge that. I had no real issues getting the Kubrow/Kavat mods. So, as far as I am concerned it is perfectly fine. I got them ages ago and a lot has changed since then.

• I got all mods easily. Bite was on an event at the time.

You make it sound a little complicated though. I do not know if that is just from the explanation(s) or not.

Well, I'm glad you have a full set of the literal basic Kubrow and Kavat mods that are the source for all other builds. Though with recently announced changes to the way pet mods operate I doubt DE will do something.

I'm glad you got bite easily. I'm glad the other guy has 5 bites apparently by sheer luck. I bought all the mods except bite, because it costs more than all the others combined and I'm out of plat. Today DE announced on devstream Kubrows were getting Enhanced Vitality and other Sentinel mods that improve base stats rather than act as links. Maybe they mean the mods can cross reference. Or maybe they'll be added into similar drop tables as Fetch. On enemies that only spawn in a high level area with nullifer bubbles according to my friend. You know, places that by the time someone can head there will already have been unable to use Kubrows for the majority of the starchart. Which just leads back to the original reason I made the thread.

The most basic, needed Kubrow mods should drop from Earth Sabotage in a manner like how easy it is to get the basic Sentinel mods. Fetch should be included in there. I admit, I got my Fetch for free, by getting a player with much better gear than me to give me one since he had dupes. I admit there's reason for Fetch to be put elsewhere other than the basic Kubrow mods. Such as the fact that new players don't get Vacuum until after they get the Taxon Sentinel. I don't know when the earliest drop place is, but I know that I only got my first copy of the mod on Mars.

Bite could be a stupidly rare mod that still goes for 80 damn plat unranked. But Link Health, Armor, Shields, Maul, they need to be accessible to people who want to use Kubrows in a manner other than "go to Warframe market."

There's not much of a reason to add more content for Beasts until the current issues get fixed. And they've added some really great stuff for Kavats with the Tek set, Fetch is an amazing mod which makes bringing along a Beast fun, and the Hunter set currently provides some variation of build on the Plains of Eidolon. And the upcoming mods for Chargers looks great. But, there's still this age old issue.

[krc473]

5 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

The most basic, needed Kubrow mods should drop from Earth Sabotage in a manner like how easy it is to get the basic Sentinel mods.

I have always figured that Kubrows/Kavats were more aimed at higher MR players. I would expect people to have these mods by the time they get to Kavats at least. Sentinels are the easy, low MR companion. I would expect Sentinel mods to be easier to acquire than Kubrow/Kavat mods.

5 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Bite could be a stupidly rare mod that still goes for 80 damn plat unranked. But Link Health, Armor, Shields, Maul, they need to be accessible to people who want to use Kubrows in a manner other than "go to Warframe market."

Actually playing the game should yield many of these mods. The issue is people that want everything last week. A little bit of time and they are not overly difficult to acquire. I got all of mine in under one week. If you cannot be bothered to farm the mods, buy them. DE has to make money somehow.

5 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I got my Fetch for free, by getting a player with much better gear than me to give me one since he had dupes

I found Fetch within 10 minutes. I struggle to sympathise with someone that cannot even be bothered to farm one simple mod. In all honesty, it sounds more like "I am too lazy to farm, give it to me for free right now".

• No one really appears to agree with with you on the mods in this thread. That would suggest you have presented the information/proposition in the incorrect manner. Or the idea is just plain bad.

 

Looking at the drop rates for said mods, they are a bit on the low side. These could use a buff. But there is no point in making a mission exclusively for the acquisition of said mods.

 

Should sabotage cache drops change? Probably. Should they trivialise Kubrow/Kavat mod acquisition? No.

**I should note, you took three weeks to reply. So I might have missed the point. But really, it is best to just leave the thread to stay inactive after that amount of time anyway.

Edited November 17, 2018 by krc473

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Howl of the Kubrow is accessed the moment you get to Mercury. The game requires at least one Derelict Key to be crafted to get to Uranus, along with a single weapon to be crafted with an MR requirement of 1. 1. To get to Eris the game requires the completion of Second Dream, an MR3 quest, the crafting of an MR 5 weapons, and killing Lephantis. From that information, it seems Kubrows and Kavats are aimed at MR1-5 players. I’m fairly certain anything below MR10 is considered low MR, since MR10 is where the most powerful Clantech weapons become usable. So, no, beasts are intended for low MR players as much as Sentinels, it’s just that Sentinel surivability doesn’t matter, unlike Kubrows.

Yes, a 0.11% drop chance for an infrequent enemy that only appears in one third of the game would surely drop well. You got Companion mods easily. I’ve only gotten terrible drops from Drakhs. Namely breed specific Kubrow mods which have the same drop chance as bite. That’s what I get. I did buy the mods because I didn’t want an entire part of the game to be locked away because of abysmal farming. 6 breeds of Kubrow, 2 Kavats, and 1 Charger. 9 different companion types I couldn’t use because, RNG. Not to mention 3 MOAs. Compare some 10 Sentinels which don’t even need health mods to work most of the time.

I’ve played 3 times since Fortuna dropped. Once to do Vox Solaris. Another at 3 AM to mess around on the K-Drive. And last week to do a Sortie and farm some MR. I haven’t done a single bounty. As for why I didn’t farm Fetch, it is because according to all the information I have available, it only drops from enemy types with a lowest level spawn of 50, and in a setting where all enemies have nullifier bubbles, and said enemy types possess armor. I begged for Fetch because I don’t have the gear to handle something like that on the Landscapes. Apparently they’re so dime a dozen there was literally ten people asking me to buy it off them from a single ask, and two people offering it for free. 

A whole 2 people don’t agree with me, one of whom can’t read my sentences right (not you), and a one post guy agrees with me. Es, that surely represents the overwhelming majority of people who have an opinion.

Why shouldn’t the mission solely exist for aquiring Kubrow mods? It is one of the better spots to farm Kubrow eggs, and we have single mission nodes that drop exclusively certain items, such as Pluto Dark Sector Excavation which loots near exclusively credits, endo, neo, and axi relics, in that order. The last two rotations and filled entirely with relics and nothing else. In addition Earth Sabatoge already has no other purpose but Kubrow mods as I explained already. Newbies can’t farm the caches, yet the caches are filled with stuff near exclusively useful for newbies.

I replied all the same and there’s nothing in the guidelines in reference to posting in old threads.