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Buh Bi, Tank Frames.

-Kittens-

By -Kittens-,
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-Kittens-

-Kittens-

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Well hopefully a capped range would help that occur, on both offense and defense.

 

The part I don't get it is "with no absolute powers, we can boost offensive powers especially low power and underused ones", then i look at Volt, Ash, and Ember, and it's pretty much press 4 or fail, even after 9.8.

 

Iteration takes time, of course, but I'm still not remotely convinced super pew pew offense from both PCs and NPCs is as awesome as Scott seems to think it is.

-shrug-

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-Kittens-

-Kittens-

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So what is frost suppose to do without bubble? Because his other 3 skills are very viable right?

Please, please, look at the entire skill set. He has nothing but bubble, any other skill, some other frame does it better.

 

I'm rather aware. I'm also just as aware that the gameplay lead said rather emphatically "never again absolute powers EVUUUR".

 

So here we are.

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-Kittens-

-Kittens-

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For a guy saying "OMG NERNJA SCARVES LIKE HATTORI HANZO"

 

You're pretty clueless about Hanzo's legendary abilities to block any kind of attack and then get three steps ahead of his opponent by analyzing it, which was kinda his defining thing.

 

 

hattori_hanzo_iga_clan_02.jpg > you.

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-Kittens-

-Kittens-

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Now this is the part that makes me scratch my head:

 

Steve pretty deliberately says "Warframe is about choices, and the consequences of those choices"

 

Yet, one of those meta-choices is being deliberately removed, systematically.

 

Why?

 

What does it serve?

 

Weapons already RULE, and I mean absolutely rule "endgame" damage; powers are utility and screening elements by level 85 for virtually every character, and the "most capable" of those frames literally use their powers as weapon-clearing base at that point.

 

So why completely obviate active defense?

 

Are people really spending that much platinum on revives?

 

As I've noted elsewhere, defensive mods are completely ridiculously priced within WarFrame's logistical and economic framework, again, for no discernible reason, while offensive mods of the same cost quite literally guarantee endgame level damage output.

 

Does DE really believe endless economic throughput by rote means is going to keep players engaged, and that the entire player base is interested in just spamming offense every time a cluster metric ding goes off?

 

As someone invested in design myself, giving player clear directions to make the ooh and ahh noises "on their own" are always welcome, but I am seriously mystified by some of the design motifs here.

 

What does it serve to cut out an entire avenue of gameplay?

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Morte_de_Angelis

Morte_de_Angelis

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I thought I should post this here too since this topic also lightly deals with Overheat's damage reduction change:

After the new changes I will probably try the same thing again to see if it changed how viable she is.

psshh

Taking 600 Shield Damage and some HP damage just to prove you don't need one ability?

I've ran solo with a rank 3 nyx using no abilities killing Ambalus and getting to extraction only rushing the very last run to extraction.

WITH NO MODS.

So just because you can run something without needing Overheat means nothing. Its like my running Pluto on my Frost without using Snowglobe.

I've also down that many times before, and my Rhino without using Iron Skin.

Sorry that it sounds like I am boasting, but if you needed Overheat to run Pluto then I don't know what to say :/

Edited by Morte_de_Angelis
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CloudPies

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Sorry that it sounds like I am boasting, but if you needed Overheat to run Pluto then I don't know what to say :/

Don't say anything. Nobody 'needs' mods to run anything, when you can just sprint past mobs, you 'pro'.

Most ember players want something as an alternative to WoF. Currently there is no reason to equip any other skill.

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Morte_de_Angelis

Morte_de_Angelis

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Don't say anything. Nobody 'needs' mods to run anything, when you can just sprint past mobs, you 'pro'.

Most ember players want something as an alternative to WoF. Currently there is no reason to equip any other skill.

 

Just when he's saying "resisting the urge to use Overheat"

 

If you NEED Overheat to complete Pluto then I don't know what to say.  You Don't need it.  Hell, I've done pluto while taking very little damage.  The only reason you will NEED Overheat is if you want to rush into every single group of enemies you see.  Yh, you can run past if you want to.  Get hit by a laser door and get mauled by all the enemies you just missed.

 

No change to any Warframe will make it completely useless.  Useless in regards to abilites? Yh.  Completely useless? No

Saying "Look I can complete Pluto without Overheat"

Big woop.  Its not really that hard, unless you have crappy guns then any thing thats high level is going to be really tough.  I've done pluto with a Nyx thats got 140 Shield and 140 Hp.  Does that mean any of Nyx's abilities aren't useless? Nope!. It means jack S#&$.

 

I'm not saying that "I am pro with l33t skilzz and S#&$z" but more of a case "What are you trying to prove?"

That you don't need Overheat?  Saying you only have 600 Shields and don't need Overheat.  Whats wrong with me saying that I took a Lvl 3 Nyx and Killed Ambalaus with no abilities? We are saying the same thing.

 

You don't need any HP / Shield / Ability Mods to be able to play the game.  Except that I just took it to the nth Degree and did it with a much weaker frame.

 

People who want to play Ember that doesn't just wana use WoF?

Then why not use the others? Not as effective? But but but you don't need abilities to play!

 

Atm if you want to complete the game there is never a reason to use any ability other then to make it easier for you.

I'm sure every Frost wants to use some other then Snowglobe.

Like every Rhino wanted to use something other then Iron Skin

 

Ember is no special cookie.  Just don't go around saying "YOU DON'T NEED OVERHEAT TO PLAY PLUTO!!!!" when you really don't need anything other then a gun that kills really really quick and good aim.  Thats about it, cause the Dispair / Acrid will still kill S#&$ way faster then any ability ever will, maybe Miasma.... maybe.

Edited by Morte_de_Angelis
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Grilleds

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psshh

Taking 600 Shield Damage and some HP damage just to prove you don't need one ability?

I've ran solo with a rank 3 nyx using no abilities killing Ambalus and getting to extraction only rushing the very last run to extraction.

WITH NO MODS.

So just because you can run something without needing Overheat means nothing. Its like my running Pluto on my Frost without using Snowglobe.

I've also down that many times before, and my Rhino without using Iron Skin.

Sorry that it sounds like I am boasting, but if you needed Overheat to run Pluto then I don't know what to say :/

The point was less whether Ember needs Overheat to be effective, and more how people underestimate how effective she is without it. Although within the original thread that I posted it on, the OP was claiming that Ember is entirely reliant on Overheat and that her other skills sucked. I made that post to point out that WoF is way more important to Ember than Overheat is. Within 4-5 ticks she kills every Corpus enemy short of a Corpus Tech, and the community seems to think Ember is useless against Corpus for some reason. She also kills light infected on Eris in 1 tick, although Ancients don't really take much damage from it. She only really feels crappy against Grineer, much like many things in this game. I also wouldn't recommend bringing her on an endless defense for 35 waves, then again I wouldn't recommend doing an endless defense for that long to begin with.

Oh btw:

"The only reason you will NEED Overheat is if you want to rush into every single group of enemies you see"

That is exactly what I did. Without Overheat. Near perma-WoF with Stretch makes most of the game a breeze. I barely ever had to fire my damn gun.

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Morte_de_Angelis

Morte_de_Angelis

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Oh btw:

"The only reason you will NEED Overheat is if you want to rush into every single group of enemies you see"

That is exactly what I did. Without Overheat. Near perma-WoF with Stretch makes most of the game a breeze. I barely ever had to fire my damn gun.

 

So it becomes another "press 4 to kill all" frame then

 

 

I'm... not sure if you're for or against overheat...

 

Neither.

 

I don't particularly like it because it makes a better tank then Rhino in soaking damage but I am not particulary against it in the sense that a nerf to the damage reduction would of been better IMO then completely re-working the skill but thats just me.

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CloudPies

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I don't particularly like it because it makes a better tank then Rhino in soaking damage but I am not particulary against it in the sense that a nerf to the damage reduction would of been better IMO then completely re-working the skill but thats just me.

Yea, but right now all Ember has is DoT of various energy costs... overheat just brought something interesting to the table. I'd personally rather have a speed buff rather than damage mitigation, maybe a better CC effect to fire blast too (knock down or something).

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Grilleds

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Nono... She runs around like a headless chicken and hope to god that mitigates the hitscan aimbots...

It goes through walls. If you dash from cover to cover near enemies, you can usually burn up whole rooms while barely taking any damage. You could also abuse wall jump mechanics and zorencopters to close into melee range ASAP so the enemies die quicker.
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CloudPies

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It goes through walls. If you dash from cover to cover near enemies, you can usually burn up whole rooms while barely taking any damage. You could also abuse wall jump mechanics and zorencopters to close into melee range ASAP so the enemies die quicker.

I was reduced to hiding behind boxes, only occasionally ducking my head out to see if the coast is clear.... :(
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