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Question, Does Harrow's Crits Beat Chroma's Damage?


Acculiterary
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il y a 26 minutes, Acculiterary a dit :

Sorry, meant max possible damage either from Crit or damage itself, loadout.

Use both. Now that thanks to adaptation you can actually use Avenger on Chroma, that plus an Adarza kitty gives you a fairly consistent +60/90% additive crit chance. Chroma is the single best generic weapon damage booster in the game, only beaten by Banshee (which requires you to hit small spots tho). 

Harrow is actually pretty bad at directly buffing damage. +200% crit chance sounds impressive before you realise literally all damage buffers give you more. 

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1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

Not even close. There are also a lot more ways to buff crit. Also, going past 100% crit chance from purely a damage perspective isn't that good. 

orange crit is double dmg. i think thats pretty good. if u can get a perma orange crit riven, thats perma double dmg and you've only used 1 stat

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il y a 55 minutes, Ragingwasabi a dit :

orange crit is double dmg. i think thats pretty good. if u can get a perma orange crit riven, thats perma double dmg and you've only used 1 stat

Not exactly. It's a bit less than double damage, and to get to permanent orange crits you'd need +300% crit chance for the highest crit chance gun in the game which takes at the very least 2 slots. Also, every siccessive step is worse than the one before. 

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7 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Not exactly. It's a bit less than double damage, and to get to permanent orange crits you'd need +300% crit chance for the highest crit chance gun in the game which takes at the very least 2 slots. Also, every siccessive step is worse than the one before. 

what do u mean its a bit less than double damage? is the multiplier not exactly 2?

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Acculiterary:

Title. Making a max damage from either Crit or plain damage, loadout.

Nothing does individually. Thing is just, chromas nature favors egocentric builds over team centered ones... means: he is strong and works well with buffs but at the same time doesn't participate in the synergy.

It doesn't really matter that harrow isn't stronger since buffed players x4 are then he is individually.... it goes beyond me how he's made it into the meta rooster in the first place.

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Nothing does individually. Thing is just, chromas nature favors egocentric builds over team centered ones... means: he is strong and works well with buffs but at the same time doesn't participate in the synergy.

It doesn't really matter that harrow isn't stronger since buffed players x4 are then he is individually.... it goes beyond me how he's made it into the meta rooster in the first place.

Harrow's critical buff is difficult to use and very dependent on external factors.  You need to have a lot of damage flying your way to turn it to any substantial critical chance.

Chroma's egocentric because some people choose to play him that way.  Vex can affect everyone close by if you build it to do so, it has a base 18 meters radius so as long as you don't use Narrow minded anyone even kinda close to you gets it.  Chroma's made it into the meta because his buff makes him so strong that you don't need the other 3 people to do damage, and its much easier to use.  If you use Covenant at the right moment, you might double or triple everyone's damage, but Chroma can easily always have access to over 850% base weapon damage, which with a weapon build designed to take advantage of it translates to around 4-5 times more burst damage in some instances.  

Edited by Soulgazer
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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Soulgazer:

Chroma's egocentric because some people choose to play him that way. 

Not really. It's rather because he's pretty greedy for stats because everything except for his buffs damage is set really, really low. You'd need to maximise his strength to get a real advantage over other buffers, build for high duration to adress the efficiency of his 25s buffs, probably build for health, armor, energy and rage /zenurik/arcanes if you don't expect defensive/supportive buffers in your squad and because his survivability mainly scales off of those...

How many slots does he really have left for support at that point?

People choose to play him that way because his entire setup is really, really greedy... or is there another frame in the game that's THAT reliant on all 4 power stats and every single basestat?

What they do is making the smart choice... not building for the stat that's the least usefull in any scenario but camping - range, so they can make the other stats viable. That's an fundamental issue of his more then choice.

Things would definitly be different if his abilities would have a static- or affinity range like harrows but the way he is right now, he's a lousy supporter.

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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Ran some simulated numbers for you on the Warframe Builder using some rough stats.

eRMQLZV.png

This is using 25%/2x Crit stats + Point Strike/Vital Sense, maxed out Serration and a 275% damage Riven to simulate Chroma's Vex Armor.

NrEuKCp.png

On the other hand, this is simulating a +200% crit multiplier over the previous, taking away the simulated Vex Armor.

Some notes on the data,

  • Harrow's Crit will outperform Chroma's Vex Armor out of the box but only on headshots. Body shots are rubbish by comparison. With 112.5%(62.5 + 50), the damage is down to 1278.
  • Covenant is capped at 200% which means the 2nd set of data is the maximum you can achieve while Vex armor will scale with Ability Strength. From this data set, 550% Vex Armor will actually only put you at 2546 damage, which means you need more than 200% Power Strength before you catch up in headshots.
  • If you take away Vital Sense, that 262% Critical Chance diminishes in value so significantly, resulting in the damage going down to 960.
  • As you have more damage bonuses such as Rifle Amp or a Riven that has +Damage, Vex Armor adds less value. This can make a difference when using Pistols which have 220% on Hornet Strike compared to 165% on Serration.
  • As +200% Critical chance is a flat bonus, Critical Chance plays a smaller part than Critical Multiplier when using Covenant. Reducing the Critical Chance down to 225% but keeping the 4.4x multiplier still keeps the damage at 2292.
  • Hammer Shot will increase the Covenant's value up to 3464 while increasing the Critical Chance to 300% only puts the damage up to 2968.

Overall conclusion is Covenant is better out of the box but only in situations where you have a high Crit Multiplier and can score headshots all the time. If you cannot meet those two conditions, Vex Armor is much more reliable.

Edited by Flandyrll
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16 hours ago, Flandyrll said:

Ran some simulated numbers for you on the Warframe Builder using some rough stats.

eRMQLZV.png

This is using 25%/2x Crit stats + Point Strike/Vital Sense, maxed out Serration and a 275% damage Riven to simulate Chroma's Vex Armor.

NrEuKCp.png

On the other hand, this is simulating a +200% crit multiplier over the previous, taking away the simulated Vex Armor.

Some notes on the data,

  • Harrow's Crit will outperform Chroma's Vex Armor out of the box but only on headshots. Body shots are rubbish by comparison. With 112.5%(62.5 + 50), the damage is down to 1278.
  • Covenant is capped at 200% which means the 2nd set of data is the maximum you can achieve while Vex armor will scale with Ability Strength. From this data set, 550% Vex Armor will actually only put you at 2546 damage, which means you need more than 200% Power Strength before you catch up in headshots.
  • If you take away Vital Sense, that 262% Critical Chance diminishes in value so significantly, resulting in the damage going down to 960.
  • As you have more damage bonuses such as Rifle Amp or a Riven that has +Damage, Vex Armor adds less value. This can make a difference when using Pistols which have 220% on Hornet Strike compared to 165% on Serration.
  • As +200% Critical chance is a flat bonus, Critical Chance plays a smaller part than Critical Multiplier when using Covenant. Reducing the Critical Chance down to 225% but keeping the 4.4x multiplier still keeps the damage at 2292.
  • Hammer Shot will increase the Covenant's value up to 3464 while increasing the Critical Chance to 300% only puts the damage up to 2968.

Overall conclusion is Covenant is better out of the box but only in situations where you have a high Crit Multiplier and can score headshots all the time. If you cannot meet those two conditions, Vex Armor is much more reliable.

Don't forget the condition in which you put mods on your warframe.

 

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Ideally you don't use Base damage mods with Chroma. You use Primed Bane, Primed Shred and/or a Riven without Base damage.

But that's one of the many things I hate about Chroma these days. Generally +%Damage is good on a Riven due to Primed Bane but not in his case.

They made him more team friendly but only if you mod a certain way, it's counter intuitive. I'll take Rhino any day when it comes to "buffs".

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