Jump to content

Timed Invincibility Mechanics are OLD and NOT FUN (Manic Rant)


Raspberry
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm tired of Grineer Manics just turning invincible after triggering a health gate, and I've had times (often in ESO where some zones guarantee several Manic spawns) where I was basically forced to ignore them because of the other enemies around me. When 3+ Manics surround me in all directions, some of which are invincible/cloaking and others that aren't, I eventually end up being killed with a finisher.

The Manic is one example of what I think is a poorly designed enemy, mechanically. You don't force a player to ignore a mob enemy because they have invincibility phases, but then also give them the ability to 100% guarantee kill you, on most frames, when you do ignore them. One Manic shouldn't really be a problem unless I just don't pay attention, but several is far from fun to play against (try fighting 20 level 100+ Manics at once with a frame that doesn't have extremely spammable CC). Honestly, even though the finisher attack, if initiated, almost cannot be prevented from killing you (unless you have anti-death abilities like Nidus' passive or Phoenix Renewal), it's not even all that bad a mechanic since there is some level of counterplay that can prevent them. I really think the invincibility portion of Manics is what hinders the counterplay to their finisher attacks, and that portion of this enemy's game mechanics should probably be removed (or replaced with something else).

All other enemies of "similar difficulty" like Bursas, Noxes, and Scrambus all have proper counterplay, often revolving around shooting their weak spots. Manic invincibility cannot be broken with counterplay; waiting is not counterplay, since the act of waiting is basically not playing the game. In a game whose overwhelming majority of missions are mob-based, being forced to ignore extremely agile and player-insta-killable enemies is not good game design. Squishy frames are in a pretty rough spot in public matchmaking because there are so few things they can do to stay alive at high levels already; there is no way I can just stare at the Manic and wait for it to uncloak if a nearby level 120 Heavy Gunner is firing at me, I will have to face her and turn away from the Manic.

However, I wouldn't mind some waiting mechanics on well-designed bosses that warrant them, like the relatively short phase changes in Tyl Regor's fight for example. Manics are not bosses, they are mob enemies, albeit usually very uncommon ones.

Had to get this off my chest. Invincibility in general should be kept at a minimum in shooters, but if they HAVE to be implemented to make high level Warframe reasonably difficult, please allow us to actively counter the mechanic instead of forcing us to wait for it to wear off. It's for this reason that Vay Hek, Sargas Ruk, and Lech Kril are currently probably the most hated bosses in the game: excessive forced waiting.

Edited by Raspberry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Raspberry said:

Manics are not bosses, they are mob enemies, albeit usually very uncommon ones.

 

I would argue that Manics (and Bursas) are intended to be Mini-bosses, the strongest possible base-line unit they can produce without being Unique Named Bosses themselves. They should be a pain in the ass to fight. 

However, I DO think that permenant invincibility frames isn't the answer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One trick I do while fighting in mission with Maniacs is use Trinity's link to point them out, they can be a bit hard to spot if running around
but link beam will still link to cloaked maniac.

The Maniac cannot perform finisher to kill a Trinity with link active without killing itself.
because the link beam will divert the damage back at maniac.

Gun point at the cloaked maniac and shoot it the moment it uncloaks.



 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Don't you tell others what is hard and what not! DID YOU EVER FARM FOR MUTAGEN SAMPLES? The hardest task in this game TO DATE😡 And it doesn't even make me "powerful" to get that stupid hema I already own.. (only because I left my samples in previous clans that disbanded)

Anyway, on topic, I agree that this mechanic is kind of.. outdated and boring, I like what they did to the ambulas for example, and nox units.. they are tough but in another way.. I like that resistance thing more than just plain invincibility..

Did you even read your first sentence and third sentence together?

Yes farmed Mut samples, no its not even close to the hardest thing in the game.

As for manics - the OP is clearly given to hyperbole - 20 manics at once? only in the simulcrum.

And @Klokwerkaos is correct. I rarely even notice when a manic is around and usually only play squishy frames like mag/banshee etc with few "survivability" mods installed.  ESO/Arbitrations/hours long endless/whatever. They're generally dead long before any bursa/nox/etc would be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Don't you tell others what is hard and what not! DID YOU EVER FARM FOR MUTAGEN SAMPLES? The hardest task in this game TO DATE. 😡 And it doesn't even make me "powerful" to get that stupid hema I already own.. (only because I left my samples in previous clans that disbanded)

Anyway, on topic, I agree that this mechanic is kind of.. outdated and boring, I like what they did to the ambulas for example, and nox units.. they are tough but in another way.. I like that resistance thing more than just plain invincibility..

Mutagen samples is nothing.  Come back when you did mountain tier pigment white solo.  Then we will talk, not to mention some things aren't even farmable anymore making them infinitely harder to get..  You are speaking from ignorance and your argument highlights that.  I am not special.  If I can do it you can do it.  The question is are you willing to invest the time to learn and do it?  This is a game 13 year olds can learn and excell at.  If that makes it too hard and complicated for you then I don't know what to tell you except what I already did... Up your arsenal.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...