FOR FUN: choose 2 abilities you can't live without, and they can't overlap with other frames...

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Stop! Stop abusing ellipsis.

Well, unless you want your posts to look like written by a person with mental disability.

Spoiler

 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

6 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Yeah, but many people already seems to believe the frame is just an EV bot even though it's versatile.

If anything, we need more abilities per frame, more complexity in the game and harder content.

Yeah I am normally a buff everything sort of forum user..personally I hate nerfing...Hell I would make Chroma's effigy into something like Venari where you can ride on it's back like the old spice guy on a horse...but I had to ask myself what would you do if limited to 2 powers....you know just try it out when at work or bored...just remember no over lap...that makes it a little more challenging on the total roster synergy...

Edited October 27, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

12 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Never change, console players.....never change 

We'll have to when 5G is everywhere...

[ForgedReality]

All four of Octavia's abilities.

Everyone knows she's the best frame in the game. 😉

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

23 minutes ago, ForgedReality said:

All four of Octavia's abilities.

Everyone knows she's the best frame in the game. 😉

OMG Octavia was the worst to puzzle over with 2 powers...with a 2 power limitation you'd really have to do a total rework where you could cast the damage and lure effect on other targets since you have to toss out the roller...then your limited with invisibility for another frame so you gotta pull that out least you want to short change your only other choice between Loki, Ash, and Ivara...

Edited October 27, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

I feel like people just read the title and immediately reply without reading the first scentence.

 

Granted, that is an awfully misleading title, and it would probably be better suited for General discussion rather than general feed back, but still...at least read the first few words before immediately jumping to conclusions.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

2 hours ago, moostar95 said:

NO, this would kill my lovely equinox.

you can only have 2...which 2 would save your lovely equinox?

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

2 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

I feel like people just read the title and immediately reply without reading the first scentence.

 

Granted, that is an awfully misleading title, and it would probably be better suited for General discussion rather than general feed back, but still...at least read the first few words before immediately jumping to conclusions.

Click bait is strong in the OP...HA..Okay I changed it...now watch it plummet into oblivion without the clickbait...but thank you...

[Scissorsmith]

See, the biggest problem with this post is that you propose a "though experiment" for fun, but you put it under feedback. Feedback is for proposing ideas, commenting on why you like/dislike and what problems you have with certain features, as well as suggesting improvements to them. So when you propose an idiotic (as seen by most, me included) idea under feedback, people will rightfully call it stupid. If you didn't want to offer this as a suggestion, and just wanted to promote discussion, you should've put it under general discussion (it even has discussion in the name). Since you posted it under feedback, people are treating it as feedback, and replying as such. 

Anyway, there are problems with this though experiment of yours even so. Like why 2 skills? Some frames have stuff that synergizes through all 4 skills (with Saryn, I use all 4 abilities constantly for example, and they are kind of meant to be used all together, so removing something "because redundancy" makes no sense), while others just have 1 skill (like Wukong who only uses defy).

Furthermore, I don't know what you mean by "similar"or "redudant", because some of the things you listed make no sense. Lets take Limbo bubble vs frost bubble. They are similar in appearance only, since their functions are very different. In defense missions, for example, Limbo is terrible, since he slows things down to a slog. Frost is a really good frame for those missions. Limbo's bubble is an AoE CC pretty much, while Frost's acts like a defensive tank-function shield. Vastly different abilities, similar mostly in visuals. There are some abilities that are redudant, but the number is not 50%, and not exactly 2 for each frame.

And even for frames with overlapping abilities, you get to use them in combinations with different abilities. Lets take Oberon vs Trinity as an example. Both have a heal. Even ignoring the over-time vs fast-full-heal with buff difference (which is pretty big by the way if you've ever done tridolons or some of the other late-game stuff). Trinity has her heal in combo with energy restoration (even if you're using EV, a full-heal in a pinch is still great). Oberon has his different heal in combo with some AoE nuke (his 4) and a debuff-resistance field. So for tridolons, as an example, if you don't have a Harrow, you nay want an oberon, because he combines healing with debuff-resistance. If you do have Harrow, you probably want Trinity, wince she's a more reliable dedicated healer, plus can give you that 75% damage reduction which is great.

So overall, even as a though experiment, it's kind of pointless, because you're comparing uncomparable things on arbitrary rules that make no sense. I feel like you really did not think things through before posting this.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

3 hours ago, Scissorsmith said:

See, the biggest problem with this post is that you propose a "though experiment" for fun, but you put it under feedback. Feedback is for proposing ideas, commenting on why you like/dislike and what problems you have with certain features, as well as suggesting improvements to them. So when you propose an idiotic (as seen by most, me included) idea under feedback, people will rightfully call it stupid. If you didn't want to offer this as a suggestion, and just wanted to promote discussion, you should've put it under general discussion (it even has discussion in the name). Since you posted it under feedback, people are treating it as feedback, and replying as such. 

Anyway, there are problems with this though experiment of yours even so. Like why 2 skills? Some frames have stuff that synergizes through all 4 skills (with Saryn, I use all 4 abilities constantly for example, and they are kind of meant to be used all together, so removing something "because redundancy" makes no sense), while others just have 1 skill (like Wukong who only uses defy).

Furthermore, I don't know what you mean by "similar"or "redudant", because some of the things you listed make no sense. Lets take Limbo bubble vs frost bubble. They are similar in appearance only, since their functions are very different. In defense missions, for example, Limbo is terrible, since he slows things down to a slog. Frost is a really good frame for those missions. Limbo's bubble is an AoE CC pretty much, while Frost's acts like a defensive tank-function shield. Vastly different abilities, similar mostly in visuals. There are some abilities that are redudant, but the number is not 50%, and not exactly 2 for each frame.

And even for frames with overlapping abilities, you get to use them in combinations with different abilities. Lets take Oberon vs Trinity as an example. Both have a heal. Even ignoring the over-time vs fast-full-heal with buff difference (which is pretty big by the way if you've ever done tridolons or some of the other late-game stuff). Trinity has her heal in combo with energy restoration (even if you're using EV, a full-heal in a pinch is still great). Oberon has his different heal in combo with some AoE nuke (his 4) and a debuff-resistance field. So for tridolons, as an example, if you don't have a Harrow, you nay want an oberon, because he combines healing with debuff-resistance. If you do have Harrow, you probably want Trinity, wince she's a more reliable dedicated healer, plus can give you that 75% damage reduction which is great.

So overall, even as a though experiment, it's kind of pointless, because you're comparing uncomparable things on arbitrary rules that make no sense. I feel like you really did not think things through before posting this.

Well thank you, but you wasted a ton of time on me to put me in my place rather than simply answering the question or participating in the game...it's easy to critique while safely tucked away with nothing to show as how you would do things differently...and clearly you would put out some interesting information...now I suspect you'll want to get the feathers all floofed and retort scathingly...please don't, just put out list with reasons if possible for those choices...think of all the new players and learning from all the powers selected...just remember no overlap if possible....

 

Also I have no issues with this being moved...but if anyone who's super elite on power knowledge would actually take a serious stab at this they might put out a lot of feedback that could help the design council later on when they are provided a poll or come up with a new power for the new frame posts that De likes to drop every once in awhile...or not...probably going with "not" on that one...

[Scissorsmith]

1 hour ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Well thank you, but you wasted a ton of time on me to put me in my place rather than simply answering the question or participating in the game...it's easy to critique while safely tucked away with nothing to show as how you would do things differently...and clearly you would put out some interesting information...now I suspect you'll want to get the feathers all floofed and retort scathingly...please don't, just put out list with reasons if possible for those choices...think of all the new players and learning from all the powers selected...just remember no overlap if possible....

 

Also I have no issues with this being moved...but if anyone who's super elite on power knowledge would actually take a serious stab at this they might put out a lot of feedback that could help the design council later on when they are provided a poll or come up with a new power for the new frame posts that De likes to drop every once in awhile...or not...probably going with "not" on that one...

Peace dude, in that first graph Im just explaining why people are taking this as a suggestion, because you put it under feedback not discussion, which is potentially slightly misleading, and you have to agree, that reducing the number of abilities would be a terrible move in the game (which it initially seems like you're suggesting, cause it's under feedback, not discussion). Not trying to "put you in your place", just some healthy disagree-ing and discussing, I think, because a discussion where there's only agreement is just an echo-chamber, which is unhealthy. Don't take criticism so hard, as I meant no offense, and I do think I explained my points fairly well and politely, except maybe for the last paragraph, which sounds a little douchey now that I look at it.

Other than that that I was trying to understand the reasoning for 2 abilities per frame though, hence the questions I raised, because you basically raised the point that about 50% of the abilities are about the same or redundant, which I disagree with, and explained why (in short, some frames have synergistic kits and need 4, some other skills are only similar on the surface, and some are sort of similar in function, but placed in a different kit are vastly different in how they work). Was hoping you'd explain why you though some of the vastly different (at least in my eyes) abilities were the same basically, and explained why I don't think so. I guess my last paragraph sounds a little douchebaggy, sorry about that. The point still stands though.

Personally, i think some of the stuff just comes down to preference, where people have several different ways to approach the problem, and some effect overlap is good and healthy, as it gives people different ways to approach a problem. Take stealth missions for example. Some people take Loki for that. He has very straightforward invisibility. A teleport if he really needs it. The invisibility is easy to use and instant.  Personally I don't like Loki very much, so I look for other invis frames. Some prefer Octavia. She also has invisibility, but it works quite different, you can stay perma-invisible, and also have some neat AoE/CC, some other buffs useful in a pinch. Yet others like to do things slow and methodical, so they take Ivara, who goes slow, yes, but has the strongest potential in stealth with her augment.

In short - what Im saying is that the problem you raise initially is not a problem for most frames, and only applies to a few who don't have their niche. Frames like Atlas, for example, who just doesn't do anything better, or isn't even on par with any other frame for any function, basically. And at that point it just comes down to "a few frames need tweaks/reworks", which is a slightly different problem. Don't get mad just because someone has a different opinion.

[Nitro747]

The OP literally edited the title and a bunch of sentences just to pass off like he wasn't proposing a very bad, terrible idea... That's just sad.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

1 hour ago, Nitro747 said:

The OP literally edited the title and a bunch of sentences just to pass off like he wasn't proposing a very bad, terrible idea... That's just sad.

You gotta read some of the other posts and requests..just being accommodating to what they asked for with the original title...what's really sad Is I'm still waiting for you to put up a post on your idea so I can respond with a thoughtful post rather than your standard of normal laziness of nah...seriously nah is a sad, even by region chat standards...

Edited October 28, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

1 hour ago, Scissorsmith said:

Peace dude, in that first graph Im just explaining why people are taking this as a suggestion, because you put it under feedback not discussion, which is potentially slightly misleading, and you have to agree, that reducing the number of abilities would be a terrible move in the game (which it initially seems like you're suggesting, cause it's under feedback, not discussion). Not trying to "put you in your place", just some healthy disagree-ing and discussing, I think, because a discussion where there's only agreement is just an echo-chamber, which is unhealthy. Don't take criticism so hard, as I meant no offense, and I do think I explained my points fairly well and politely, except maybe for the last paragraph, which sounds a little douchey now that I look at it.

Other than that that I was trying to understand the reasoning for 2 abilities per frame though, hence the questions I raised, because you basically raised the point that about 50% of the abilities are about the same or redundant, which I disagree with, and explained why (in short, some frames have synergistic kits and need 4, some other skills are only similar on the surface, and some are sort of similar in function, but placed in a different kit are vastly different in how they work). Was hoping you'd explain why you though some of the vastly different (at least in my eyes) abilities were the same basically, and explained why I don't think so. I guess my last paragraph sounds a little douchebaggy, sorry about that. The point still stands though.

Personally, i think some of the stuff just comes down to preference, where people have several different ways to approach the problem, and some effect overlap is good and healthy, as it gives people different ways to approach a problem. Take stealth missions for example. Some people take Loki for that. He has very straightforward invisibility. A teleport if he really needs it. The invisibility is easy to use and instant.  Personally I don't like Loki very much, so I look for other invis frames. Some prefer Octavia. She also has invisibility, but it works quite different, you can stay perma-invisible, and also have some neat AoE/CC, some other buffs useful in a pinch. Yet others like to do things slow and methodical, so they take Ivara, who goes slow, yes, but has the strongest potential in stealth with her augment.

In short - what Im saying is that the problem you raise initially is not a problem for most frames, and only applies to a few who don't have their niche. Frames like Atlas, for example, who just doesn't do anything better, or isn't even on par with any other frame for any function, basically. And at that point it just comes down to "a few frames need tweaks/reworks", which is a slightly different problem. Don't get mad just because someone has a different opinion.

Oh yeah, it really comes down to preference...of course every answer is going to be different for each player...as for Limbo and Frost on the earlier post...I hamstrung Limbo due him to trivializing Frost's importance...You just have to run a mission on Herriarcon to see Limbo outperform Frost with defending the extractor between slamming the brakes on oncoming enemies and popping in out of the rift to avoid some random Ancient ready to drop you with a corrosive scream....

So it comes down to I have to balance out 2 powers that makes sure that I use every frame... I would use Limbo for defense missions...but then you have frame like Frost in the dust bin let alone Gara ready to eat his lunch as well...Where as Limbo can also be used for spy and variety of other missions and poor Frost is like "Hey I'll just make sure nothing bad happens to this thing, again."...

It wasn't easy..everyone is going to have a different take...The forums have never let me down on missing the fun point of the exercise and exacting a laser focus on the poster to tear down an idea...But really if the smarter ones would actually break down their choices on the 2 powers they would pick...some would learn as to the value of those powers...only you have to make sure you keep all the frames from becoming obsolete to players who just stick to one or two mains and that's it...

I think most responding negatively are missing the point of the fun part...battling each other over stats and the finer details day after day has gotta make them on edge....whew... god knows I've been taking a schalaking here...but I got the temper to say up yours in a heart beat..so cheers to the apology and explanation from you sir or m'am...and peace as well.

Edited October 28, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey