Can someone give me bullet points on why rivens are so terrible?

[Lost_Cartographer]

My two problems with Rivens are control over what I get, and accessibility.

 

Accessibility

They're pretty much exclusive to sorties, and you have to hope you get one, and I think they're available as a bi-weekly alert reward... if you're around to catch it.  Keep in mind, we have over 300-400 weapons in Warframe.  That's a $#!%-load of guns to RNG riven for, and you don't even have the courtesy control of deciding if it will be for a melee, secondary, or primary.  So if you want a riven for the Karak because you just think it's so awesome... too bad!  You're gonna have to go to the market (which is horrible) and deal with the horrible bouts of inflation there.  Chances are the nut selling the relevant riven has rolled it enough to get at least one or two "desirable stats" and thinks that's enough to jack its price up to at least 400p, when no one's going to be taking it into a sortie over a non-riven Tiberon Prime anytime soon.

And that's another thing - rivens are artificially scarce because a great many people don't want to stand around in their Orbiter or Maroo's bazarr screaming into a chat box.  There shouldn't be an issue with an auction house exclusively for rivens because who's to say the riven with 180% crit chance isn't worth 200p more than the riven with 170% crit chance?  What about the other stats?  These ain't prime parts - it's hard to "undercut" or "set a price" when virtually every riven is different thanks to RNGed stats and stat strengths.

 

Control

And that's another thing - I want a riven that provides reload speed and magazine capacity to my Magnus or magazine capacity and fire rate to my Pandero because utility mods like slip magazine and quick draw are statistically garbage for their mod point cost and the slot they consume (gunslinger is okay, but I'd like at least +100%...)  A riven acts like a primed nightmare mod at even 3 disposition in comparison when it comes to most utility stat mods.  There's no way for me to guarantee I'll have both those stats on a riven for that weapon.  I can't sacrifice slip magazine and quick draw mods to improve my chances of getting those effects on a roll, and I'm thinking 1 mod = +1% chance if they're thinking this might be a fun idea to explore.

 

The short of it is: the intent of rivens is sound, and I do not mind the power creep.  What's enabling the creep is our rampant power abuse, as CC scales infinitely.  Weapon damage increasing is fine by me, it's just a natural way of making tougher content more accessible as time goes on and it becomes obsolete.  What I do mind is that the intent is not well realized because I can't decide to get a riven for an older, less powerful weapon unless I'm willing to fork over $10s (or for some weapons $100s) worth of platinum AFTER putzing about in my orbiter while staring at trade chat, then I have to play the lottery to get the stats I even want and hope I don't get those stats with some crippling negative like -damage%.  I've got a Magnus riven with +reload speed and +magazine size.  It comes with >100% -impact damage... which is most of the Magnus' IPS damage.  Still works in most normal play just fine at least, it just could be a little bit better without being meta without that -impact damage.  Ugh.

 

Some of the suggested fixes to alleviate the mess that are "mods meant to make bad weapons good again:"

• I get to choose if I want to roll for 2 stats, 3 stats, and have a negative to go with them, as the bonuses are weighted depending on what's on the riven (3 stats provides less +% than 2, and a negative present means bigger positive %s.)
• Perhaps some means of influencing the type of stat/stats are rolled on the riven.  If I want a high near guaranteed chance at reload speed, I need to sacrifice a boatload of reload speed mods.
• I'd like more control over if the riven is for a primary, secondary, or melee weapon at least.  Preferably some method of having it land on the weapon I actually want it for, within reason.
• There should be an auction house exclusively for rivens.  This should free up people to play while they sell stuff someone else might want.

For the most part, rivens aren't necessary to play Warframe.  I see all these people gunning for damage, multi-shot, crit chance and drit damage (to do what?  Go another 30 minutes past 2 hours in an endless?) when all I freaking want to do is turn a semi-auto pistol into a red-necked Lato Prime without eating up so many slots/points as to make it useless past level 20.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Littleman88

[Hypernaut1]

14 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

"Warframe" is not about linear (vertical) progression. What I was saying is that the vertical (becoming more powerful) progression is linear. I agree that a new Warframe is not vertical progression, but I would also say that getting a new Warframe is not a linear path. Weapons and Warframes are both horizontal progression, increasing the breadth of your arsenal. And, generally, these are the areas where RNG hits hard. Because just a single new weapon or new Warframe does not make you more powerful, their RNG nature of acquisition is fair.

Take a step back and look at what makes you more powerful. The most important part of becoming 'powerful' in Warframe is upgrading mods with endo and credits. These two things just happen to be the least RNG tied currencies in game (alongside Kuva, ironically).

I know you don't feel this way, but I (and many others) don't think it feels very good to have vertical progression tied to luck. I am fine and endorse in some cases having horizontal progression tied to extreme luck, but not power.

 

I agree that it is by design, but I find it a faulty part of the design. If Rivens were actually balanced and worked like this...

  Reveal hidden contents

Then you wouldn't have to worry about people only picking Rivens for 'meta' weapons because it would be irrelevant. You already worked for the weapon, you already faced RNG in its acquisition (in some cases). You should be able to pick that weapon and put the work into it knowing that your work will pay off in the end and your RIven'd weapon will be competing with the best. It is insulting to the players to say that they won't be able to see past the non-Riven meta weapons. If everything was fair, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

I guess that point was not as much a point against Rivens (as it is a point against modding in general), I just wanted to point out that the 'positive' you wrote in the OP was not entirely accurate.

 

I'll finish this with a question, do you think Rivens could be better?

Thank you for not assuming I'm just trying to be a contrarian and actually addressing my points, not getting triggered and OT critiquing my internet forum debate style. 

You're right. A big disconnect between how I view things and people who dislike rivens is that I don't mind the RNG tied to that aspect of progression. My main reason is because I see rivens as optional. I would HATE it if getting a catalyst was RNG or if a weapon would only rank at random. I see those as necessary. But Its still opinion, not right/wrong as to whether or not riven rng feels good.

Choosing a riven for your favorite weapon could work with some tweaks. In fact, I at first thought it was this way because there are some ARPGs that do work that way. I'd have it take more work to unlock though and have it be a tailored as an achievement to that weapon type. That said...I don't think the system is broken because it lacks this. Again, not right/wrong but opinion. 

I definitely think rivens could be better.

1. Challenges could use some work

2. Stats should be more than just +dmg. There are so many around staple they could I, things like life strike, or headshot multipliers etc. Right now, rolling rivens really boil down to players just trying to get 3-4 stats with minimal downsides. Rolling should be more engaging than that. It should feel more like borderlands IMO where you get a cool gun and laugh to yourself as you try it out even though its not immediately the most powerful gun you have. 

3. I do think there are some dispositions that need to be increased. But I think disposition could be more fine tuned to specific stats. Like limiting chance for certain weapons to get +CC or something, but leave The other stats alone. Other than that, like I've started before, I don't see an issue with a weapon like the gram having a high disposition. It simply means that a few lucky players have an extra awesome weapon. Let them have it. It doesn't really ruin the overall balance of the game I think, and it's exciting to those players.

[LupisV0lk]

>Riven envy. THE most common cause for people to want the system scrapped or a dispo pass to happen.

>The "system has failed" long live the system. It makes good weapons ubermench while lower class weapons are only ever slightly made better.

>We the player base have failed the system. We refuse to use the rivens for the "bad" weapons. Human nature was the systems downfall.

There you go OP.

[DrBorris]

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You're right. A big disconnect between how I view things and people who dislike rivens is that I don't mind the RNG tied to that aspect of progression. My main reason is because I see rivens as optional. I would HATE it if getting a catalyst was RNG or if a weapon would only rank at random. I see those as necessary. But Its still opinion, not right/wrong as to whether or not riven rng feels good.

In some cases, getting a Riven is like getting a potato. If I want my Dera to ever be usable in late game content, I need a Riven just as much as I need a potato. However, this does bring me to a counter-point against myself. Getting Rivens does in its own way set to increase the breadth (horizontal progression) of your arsenal. If you get a Riven, you got a Riven. And if Rivens were balanced, you would know whatever Riven you got would be able to make you more powerful, even if you don't particularly lke the weapon.

However, I think it would be more 'fun' if you could reliably make your favorite weapons mechanically be late-game viable.

 

18 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Choosing a riven for your favorite weapon could work with some tweaks. In fact, I at first thought it was this way because there are some ARPGs that do work that way. I'd have it take more work to unlock though and have it be a tailored as an achievement to that weapon type. That said...I don't think the system is broken because it lacks this. Again, not right/wrong but opinion. 

I think the pieces are already there, Riven Transmutes. Getting a Riven from a Sortie or quest or alert still gives a random weapon after you unveil it, but if you dump four unveiled Rivens into a transmute you get a 'Radiant' Riven that will unveil to become whatever weapon you equip it on when the challenge is completed. In this case you still get the encouragement to try out older weapons, but have the option to target a weapon at increased cost.

 

22 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't see an issue with a weapon like the gram having a high disposition.

Well, unless you allow players to target weapons. If you let people pick Rivens, then disposition MUST be kept in check or else everyone is just going to get the 'meta' Riven. So what would you rather have, a way for people to target Rivens for weapons they like (at the expense of increased grind) or have inconsistent 'lucky' dispositions?

(Also, as discussed earlier, I think that your 'power' or 'vertical progression' should NEVER be tied to RNG, but I know that is a subjective thing.)

[seprent]

47 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

do you think Rivens could be better?

i think i can take a stab at a answer to this yes and no what they really need is balance due to stagnation in DE overlooking it 

personally to me i'm indifferent to rivens depends on use while DE wanted older weapon brought to the spot light with the new ones that clearly went south so we need to bring a method of balance to this system now i'm on the fence of either flat out removing them due to it being a broken system or sitting down and tightening its leash to bring it more in line and less out of control as you have seen from some rivens now how to do this well i propose a automated system a bot 

Why? well DE has the data already they know the % of weapons used and what variants of said weapons so they have the data of what is used by the player base over all and they can use that for this bot as to how well it comes down to some simple math there is 5 disposition levels the more popular the weapon the lower it is thus lower stats to benefit already powerful weapons higher the disposition for the less popular weapons to give them a chance on the table of our arsenal of death dealers your tigris, soma, dread, zarr, and such

100/5=20 so the imho most fair way to balance out the dispositions is to have it on a automated system that reviews the % of weapon popularity every hmm 2-3 weeks at-least once a month then lowers and raises disposition to match and the threshold table could look something like this 

• 80%+ to 100% used = 1 point disposition 
• 60%+ to 80% used = 2 point disposition
• 40%+ to 60% used = 3 point disposition 
• 20%+ to 40% used = 4 point disposition
• 0%+ to 20% used = 5 point disposition 

when a new weapon is released it is placed on the median of this set of numbers (3) so after the community has had a month at least to play with it tinker and talk about it the disposition will then rise or fall depending on popularity with the players it would also provide a clear history of what weapons are hit and miss with the majority player based and give DE a good idea of what weapons to look into for a weapon type or individual rework so to speak 

on a side note i think it could be possible to separate variants of weapons to have different dispositions and when you were to say apply a riven from  a tiberon to a tiberon prime it will show you the stat changes of the riven when you apply it perhaps a pop up saying applying this riven to this weapon variant of this disposition has raised or lowered its stats and lets you look at the them to review if putting it in is a worth the state changes showing the stat changes like how you compare weapons stats to another weapons stats showing green as positive changes and red as negative changes 

 

[DrBorris]

16 minutes ago, seprent said:

-snip-

Okay, but that is still Riven Disposition based off of usage, which has its own issues like...

3 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Disposition is broken because it is never updated, but even if it was, disposition based on popularity is broken because it does not account for...

• Ease of acquisition of weapons
• Niche synergies
• Exclusive items
• The distribution of low level to high level players (for example a lot of new players use Braton, does that mean it should have a low disposition?)
• How "fun" or "cool" a weapon is to use (ex: Paracesis)
• "Reactive" disposition resulting in unstable dispositions

So.... how do you account for those things?

• Should Paracesis have a lower disposition than Galatine Prime if it is used more (because it looks fudging sick and is central to the story)?
• Should the Bratons be cursed with an eternal low disposition?
• Should Sigma and Octantis have an insane disposition because so few people ahve it (guess this is less of a thing after Login 3.0, but you get the point.).
• Should Nukor's disposition be based no its interactions with Harrow?
• Should the disposition of vaulted weapons rise?
• Should a weapons newness affect its disposition? Even after a month or two newer weapons will have inflated stats.

 

I know this is controversial in itself, but I would like to see the Disposition of weapons be handled by human hands. Having like seven anonymous community members that together decided the disposition for weapons on an eight week cycle would be a great option IMO. Then have it so new weapons aren't able to receive Rivens at all until one of those disposition re-balances comes along so they can be given accurate dispositions. I don't see why there is a need for a new weapon to have Rivens day one. It has its issues, humans are fallible, but it would be considerably better than disposition based on usage.

Or hell, what if weapon disposition was based on a universal 'rank' that all weapons were balanced according to based on objective calculations? If only there were such a rank... oh wait.

Edited October 27, 2018 by DrBorris

[seprent]

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

Okay, but that is still Riven Disposition based off of usage, which has its own issues like...

So.... how do you account for those things?

• Should Paracesis have a lower disposition than Galatine Prime if it is used more (because it looks fudging sick and is central to the story)?
• Should the Bratons be cursed with an eternal low disposition?
• Should Sigma and Octantis have an insane disposition because so few people ahve it (guess this is less of a thing after Login 3.0, but you get the point.).
• Should Nukor's disposition be based no its interactions with Harrow?
• Should the disposition of vaulted weapons rise?
• Should a weapons newness affect its disposition? Even after a month or two newer weapons will have inflated stats.

 

I know this is controversial in itself, but I would like to see the Disposition of weapons be handled by human hands. Having like seven anonymous community members that together decided the disposition for weapons on an eight week cycle would be a great option IMO. Then have it so new weapons aren't able to receive Rivens at all until one of those disposition re-balances comes along so they can be given accurate dispositions. I don't see why there is a need for a new weapon to have Rivens day one. It has its issues, humans are fallible, but it would be considerably better than disposition based on usage.

Or hell, what if weapon disposition was based on a universal 'rank' that all weapons were balanced according to based on objective calculations? If only there were such a rank... oh wait.

you bring a good point to the table i didn't think of those things 

what you could do is have majority of weapons handled VIA a AI bot and then have it then go under human review so changes can be made so it could potentially cover those bases and it could only start using % from MR 8 since that's when rivens open up to the player i feel i made a decent frame work for this idea but ill admit it needs fine tuning

yes weapons would have inflated stats that would over time normalize vaulted weapons can still be build and used and sold so they would be effected by it i think under most of those conditions you stated the bot could make a suggestion on the disposition then under human review decide yes or no before correcting if need be then passing it out to the public builds

i think that's a pretty good idea for the first month just make so new weapons cannot get a riven for it so the bot can account for all the newly built weapons before making disposition choices though i feel having 7-8 people choose it could leave it up to bias for certain weapons because i cant name many people who be fine nerfing potentially their favorite weapon  

as for the braton series well i like my braton prime even with out a riven it does fairly well on its own id suggest maybe keeping a hard 3 since its a has a hand in broad level range from new to high mid game 

[Vox_Preliator]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm not understanding where I just said "nuh-uh". Not saying I didn't, but can you point to what came off as just "nuh-uh" maybe I can clarify. From my PoV, I'm just seeing things like "it's bad just because" no real reason as to his it effects the gameplay. Like gram being powerful doesn't seem like a reason enough as to why it's an issue, it would be if it was trivializing content, but it's not. RNG isn't as issue to me because we can keep old rolls. So really, you're just depending on it to get you better stats. 

And if you truly don't want to talk with me, this post can be early ignored. Doesn't mean I won't post what I feel like. 

 

6 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Seriously? I don't see the big problem.

 

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Sigh. Thank you for calling me out master debator. Bye now.

And this just just quickly glancing over the first page of a single thread, I could find dozens of examples if I searched farther.  You've always been like this, any argument you don't think you can best is always immediately dismissed or discredited no matter what the actual content was.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Vox_Preliator

[(PSN)Hanyabal]

I love rivens, they represent the ultimate end game for me, that's my grind, if rivens were removed I'll remove myself from the game, it'll become tedious. Rivens make the game fun for me, that should be enough reason to keep rivens.

Edit: I don't care about dispo changes, I have a large collection of grolls, some are for strong and popular weapons like Tiberon, and other for forgotten guns like Akzani, who cares, if the system is rebalanced some things will rise their dispo and others will drop it.

Edited October 27, 2018 by (PS4)Hanyabal

[Hypernaut1]

21 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

 

 

And this just just quickly glancing over the first page of a single thread, I could find dozens of examples if I searched farther.  You've always been like this, any argument you don't think you can best is always immediately dismissed or discredited no matter what the actual content was.

You're completely free to ignore my post. Why even respond with this? You have your opinion on my post, congratulations. This is not the topic. Bye. I don't waste my time critiquing posting style.

There's plenty conversation in these 3 pages for you to focus on. Jump off please. I'll try to ignore any pointless post from some of you in the future to not be having this useless back on forth "he said, she said". This isn't an intervention.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[seprent]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

You're completely free to ignore my post. Why even respond with this? You have your opinion on my post, congratulations. This is not the topic. Bye. 

you know that can invoke reverse physiology right? 

also you dont control the thread you can say bye to everyone in here and that wont do jack besides make you come off as rude 

[seprent]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Hanyabal said:

I love rivens, they represent the ultimate end game for me, that's my grind, if rivens were removed I'll remove myself from the game, it'll become tedious. Rivens make the game fun for me, that should be enough reason to keep rivens.

well they need balance because as of right now they are a item in a game that needs to be watched and balanced but DE keeps dropping the ball on doing it 

[cheliel]

My first unveil was for the Ogris. I would have dumped it because grenades kill me, and the design is not pretty

And then I got a free riven for the Hind. I still tossed that thing lol

Then an Akstilleto riven. What was once a fave became forgotten, then dusted off. 

Then Akbolto. One riven for 3 weapons is exciting (vanilla, telos, prime) 

The system is so cool, it allows for new experiences, especially when one is tired of simply leveling things to 30 then rinse/repeat. 

On my new account I’m locked until MR11 for riven. This gives me plat profit if I don’t like to unveil.

But unveiling is not as hard as I thought and is also a source of more engagement of content. Riven challenges give way to new setups, I dusted off frames too because of rivens 

 

[Hypernaut1]

14 minutes ago, seprent said:

you know that can invoke reverse physiology right? 

also you dont control the thread you can say bye to everyone in here and that wont do jack besides make you come off as rude 

I'm not saying he cant post. It's an open discussion. I'm saying I have no interest in this side debate about personal issues. I think I'm trying to have a discussion in this thread and not going about picking apart peoples posting style trying "call them out". So this will be the last time I address someone that has nothing of substance to say regarding the topic.  If you think I don't get the point, then you don't have to explain anything to me. Fine. If it makes you feel better to "call me out" fine. I'll just try to ignore for real now. Can a mod remove these OT post that have nothing to do to further discussion, including mine

Edited October 27, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[DeMonkey]

23 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

posting style.

There's posting style, and then there's debate style. I have no qualms with your posting style.

Your debate style however is disingenous, dishonest and contrarion. When I point out that you are using a strawman I am not criticising the style of your post, I am criticising the "argument" that you are attempting to make.

That actually makes it entirely on topic when I do so.

I'm more than happy for you to attempt an actual constructive debate with me, hell, provide some counter arguments to what I'm saying right now. I only point out what I point out in the hopes that you will learn something.

And if not, if you continue to just ignore everyone who points this out, then why bother attempting to take part? Threads like this come across less as an opening for a debate, and more as a jab at certain members of the community.

[Hypernaut1]

17 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

There's posting style, and then there's debate style. I have no qualms with your posting style.

Your debate style however is disingenous, dishonest and contrarion. When I point out that you are using a strawman I am not criticising the style of your post, I am criticising the "argument" that you are attempting to make.

That actually makes it entirely on topic when I do so.

I'm more than happy for you to attempt an actual constructive debate with me, hell, provide some counter arguments to what I'm saying right now. I only point out what I point out in the hopes that you will learn something.

And if not, if you continue to just ignore everyone who points this out, then why bother attempting to take part? Threads like this come across less as an opening for a debate, and more as a jab at certain members of the community.

There's plenty to discuss here if you try to look. Why try to derail right now?

Edited October 27, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Toppien]

hace 6 horas, TouFuub dijo:

One simple bullet point:

• Why adding in controversial balance system when you can actually make effort to weapon balancing in the beginning?

Haven't they done such weapon balancing with e.g. Sicarus Prime?

you know they just did an overal balance on all weapons a few weeks back right?

[Kuestenjung]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Hypernaut1:

Why does it matter that a few lucky people have extra awesome gram primes? Seriously? I don't see the big problem. We are allowed to have strong weapons as long as they aren't ruining missions by trivializing everything. 

And that´s the problem, you obviously don´t think that a PvE game needs balalnce, which is completly wrong.

 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Yagamilight123:

The only argument is that people that start that type of threads are the ones that cant get a riven for the weapon they want or pay for them .

Stop talking such nonsense, especially if you don´t have any argument yourself. I have several Riven for weapons I like and none of them are meta, not even close and nevertheless Riven are bad as they are right now.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Kuestenjung said:

And that´s the problem, you obviously don´t think that a PvE game needs balalnce, which is completly wrong.

 

Stop talking such nonsense, especially if you don´t have any argument yourself. I have several Riven for weapons I like and none of them are meta, not even close and nevertheless Riven are bad as they are right now.

I never stated that a pve game doesn't need balance. Most dungeon crawling ARPGs (which Warframe is) has RNG where some lucky people get powerful weapons and items. And even then, while that person got lucky with a gram another got lucky with another riven...so there's still a balance anyway. This has nothing to do with overall game balancing. When a pve game isn't balanced it's when there's one weapon that's clearly better than the rest to the point where it's pointless to use anything else. That's not the case with the gram. It's a powerful weapon that can be made even more powerful if someone happens to get a rare riven that also happens to have great stats.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[KIREEK]

7 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I don't mind it either. Sometimes I get lucky with an obscenely powerful riven, sometimes I don't. I think most people end up getting a great roll and not even realizing it because of having a great understanding of Warframes mechanics and potential. 

For example, I have..

Staticor-Geli-ignidex

+40.7% SC
+45% Heat
+46% Cold
-16% Dmg to Infested

And I'm often told to reroll it. Makes no sense when I can have a corrosive, radiation, and blast on a weapon with +90% SC, armor stripping capabilities, CC capabilities and radiation effects on a secondary so it has tons of multishot. 

Nobody understands this because it doesn't have CC CD and MS/DMG so its trash.

Most players in Warframe now unfortunately run to the frums to cry about EVERYTHING. DE ________ too hard. DE _________ unfair. Which is why we dont have any challenge left in this game. So rivens just fall into that category in my opinion.

Many players still have question on modding, many still ask what riven is better or what roll is better, you surpassed that likely a long time ago, but many still strugle with the basics and obvioulsy, if someone says CC and CD are the best, they follow along because they don't have a defined gameplay and don't know what is better for them

Most do not understand you because most players are comparable to newbies, the gear simply hides it.

[Vox_Preliator]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You're completely free to ignore my post. Why even respond with this? You have your opinion on my post, congratulations. This is not the topic. Bye. I don't waste my time critiquing posting style.

Boy, I sure am glad we live in a world where ignoring problems is the solution to fixing them. Oh wait.

[Hypernaut1]

4 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Boy, I sure am glad we live in a world where ignoring problems is the solution to fixing them. Oh wait.

Choosing a riven for your favorite weapon could work with some tweaks. In fact, I at first thought it was this way because there are some ARPGs that do work that way. I'd have it take more work to unlock though and have it be a tailored as an achievement to that weapon type. That said...I don't think the system is broken because it lacks this. Again, not right/wrong but opinion. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

You're very welcome. 

I'm annoyed that the weapons that could really use Rivens... can't. You can't make an Eso viable Braton Prime so far as I can tell, but something like the Gram Prime is already viable without it. 

There's so many weapons that could really use then, but can't because they never get altered.

Mostly I'm just annoyed by certain posters though. 

I'm annoyed at DE when they removed the Artax Riven because "it's (Artax) damage was to low"...

Gimmie my Artax Riven back!

[Vanille]

I don't really have issues with rivens, the only thing is, they completely shifted the economy. Rivens going up in thousands of plat worth, making farmed prime sets 30-50 plat or even less just because rivens have way too many extra rng layers and kinda defeats the purpose of playing the game to get stuff.
PS: And they're one of the reasons why trade chat is the spam S#&$show it currently is.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Kiwinille

[-AiLuoLi-]

Other than the few things that people have pointed out, I'd say I'm salty about the rivens economy.

Let's say I have a kraken and tiberon riven. I hate tiberon and love kraken. You'd expect me to roll kraken riven yes? ...Except I'd be incredibly dumb if I did that. Why roll kraken riven if I can roll top tier stat for tiberon, sell it for thousands of plat and buy top tier kraken riven with lots of plats to spare? With how the riven economy works, why even bother wasting precious kuva rolling cheap non-meta riven?

Not saying it's DE's fault though.

Edited October 28, 2018 by -AiLuoLi-