Can someone give me bullet points on why rivens are so terrible?

[Hypernaut1]

15 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

200p does not 10$. plat is completely farmable. there is not many meta rivens if that is your consideration of meta being ones with a base of 200p+ also alot of weapons are put up on that site for 2-3k. that doesn't mean anyone is actually buying them. i use riven market daily.

You can't really put a direct price value on rivens or plat. I have 9k+ plat hoarded right now from trading. It really has no cash value to me at all. 

If I drop 5k on a Riven, Its not 50$ to me. It doesn't mean I value that riven at $50. It means I have this currency in my account that's really sitting there doing nothing.

That's partly the reason why rivens go for so much. My assumption is most of those high priced rivens go to traders that have nothing better to do with their plat. I don't see many players buying plat directly just to get a meta riven.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Makunogo]

15 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You can't really put a direct price value on rivens or plat. I have 9k+ plat hoarded right now from trading. It really has no cash value to me at all. 

If I drop 5k on a Riven, Its not 50$ to me. It doesn't mean I value that riven at $50. It means I have this currency in my account that's really sitting there doing nothing.

That's partly the reason why rivens go for so much. My assumption is most of those high priced rivens go to traders that have nothing better to do with their plat. I don't see many players buying plat directly just to get a meta riven.

you misread the first statement. i guess it wasn't clear enough i meant 200p does not = 10$. the edit thing was being annoying so i left it.

in regards to the price. some of them actually do sell. i just meant there is a lot of random rivens with random stats with unreasonable prices.

i sold a riven for 3k last week and a different one for 4.5k. mind u the 4.5k was an unrolled perfect phantasma i unveiled it honestly wasn't worth that much but i sold it at the right time when it was inflated. but man it shredded AF.. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Makunogo

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

il y a 30 minutes, Hypernaut1 a dit :

I don't think you can say riven has no linear progression. I have several rivens that I roll when I can and eventually I get awesome stats. Sure WHEN I get awesome stats is RNG, but personally I usually get them in 20 or less rolls. 

The fact that we can keep previous roll means you never really lost progress. You can only get a better riven by rolling. And statistics dictate that you will eventually get a good roll, but there's a slim chance you never do. 

Except it's an upgrade hidden behind 3 layers of RNG.
This isn't your daily-grind quota progression where you have a goal and you'll reach it eventually by playing the game and giving out efforts.

It's a progression that is random, un-farmable and highly affected by community satisfaction ( disposition )
It's a form of progression that mostly benefit medium/high tier meta weapons. ( a weapon with 5 crit/status chance will still be terrible regardless of the roll )

While you may personally be getting good rolls in 20/less, I'm on my 83rd roll for the rubico and I keep getting Negative crit/Multishot stats over and over again.
Mind you, it's my eidolon hunting sniper, I can do well without the riven, but where's my progression?
I'm only going backward while someone else got lucky on his first try and can easily deal 5-10 time my damage due to a single ounce of luck.

While you may personally not see any issue because you can keep your roll, I see an issue into Gambling my time away on the same repetitive Kuva missions only to be rewarded with an offer that is less than I had previously.

I'd be a much more happy man if rivens were Curated effects/rolls.
Gaining it for a weapon and completing challenges WITH that weapon would be Literal Progression and it wouldn't be powercreep affected solely by luck but rather by effort.

Until Riven are in a better place, I've just settled to unveiling the riven and selling them at low price to whoever wants to waste their time gambling away their game-time.

[Makunogo]

yea it is a gamble tho i must say other games have a much worse RNG. and heck they have to pay real money for those. we have it pretty good in that we can farm the currency for rivens.

had something like stat locking come into play that so many people want. i wouldn't be surprised if that costed a crapton of kuva or even something like 10p - that doesn't seem like alot but if it takes 10+ rolls to get the stat u want it adds up -

also why are people so obsessed with progression what happened to just enjoying the game cus we like playing it? i dont think people start playing warframe thinking "i wonder how far i can progress"  more then "oh check out this space ninja warfare" 

tho in my case it was " i can kill with music sign me up"

Edited October 30, 2018 by Makunogo

[wtflag]

25 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

200p does not 10$. plat is completely farmable. there is not many meta rivens if that is your consideration of meta being ones with a base of 200p+ also alot of weapons are put up on that site for 2-3k. that doesn't mean anyone is actually buying them. i use riven market daily.

if someone is your clan/alliance is buying plat to get a riven perhaps you should teach them how to earn plat. 

You cannot farm platinum in normal gameplay.

Each platinum must be bought by someone from DE using real money.

All platinum has a real monetary cost even if you did not spend a single cent to acquire your platinum. 

In the end, you exchanged your time (to farm stuff) for their platinum. 

Ultimately the 200p for base riven method is just a reference. Regardless if you agree with that method, it does not change the fact that some weapons are more popular than others and their rivens are 10 to 100 times more expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

[DrBorris]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't think you can say riven has no linear progression. I have several rivens that I roll when I can and eventually I get awesome stats. Sure WHEN I get awesome stats is RNG, but personally I usually get them in 20 or less rolls. 

The fact that we can keep previous roll means you never really lost progress. You can only get a better riven by rolling. And statistics dictate that you will eventually get a good roll, but there's a slim chance you never do. 

I currently have about 250k Kuva (rookie numbers, I know) sitting in reserves for Melee 3.0 as there are some Melee Rivens I have that I would like to play with (I really, really want to bring my keg on a stick Sibear around on missions more often). Obviously it is not a good idea to roll stats before Melee 3.0 as we don't know what stats will be good, so I am just letting the Kuva pile up.

But here is the problem, I am not guaranteed even one good roll in all that kuva. Sure, it may be highly likely that I get a good roll, but I could also get skunked. That 250k Kuva should be worth the same amount as if you had 250k Kuva. Kuva should have the same value for every person, but due to RNG it doesn't. Someone could get 15 god rolls out of it. Someone could get a few good rolls. And someone could get screwed.

Is that really so crazy to want Kuva to be a consistent currency that has equal value to everyone? To be able to tell people that their time will be respected and that getting what they want can be done if they just put in the grind?

 

It is really odd, I give all this sh!t to Rivens but I still use them (it helps that I sincerely enjoy Kuva Survival). They do occasionally do their job, but they do it so inconsistently.

[Makunogo]

19 minutes ago, wtflag said:

You cannot farm platinum in normal gameplay.

Each platinum must be bought by someone from DE using real money.

All platinum has a real monetary cost even if you did not spend a single cent to acquire your platinum. 

In the end, you exchanged your time (to farm stuff) for their platinum. 

Ultimately the 200p for base riven method is just a reference. Regardless if you agree with that method, it does not change the fact that some weapons are more popular than others and their rivens are 10 to 100 times more expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

then you were just stating the obvious ? plat does not have a monetary cost. you cannot *legally* sell platinum for money. 

also value would be different for someone using a 75% discount. in which case i can get 4500plat w/ 25$. and i think it's less for americans.

of course popular rivens will be more expensive the demand is what keeps the price from dropping

it also takes time to make money does it not? 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Makunogo

[Rawbeard]

On 2018-10-27 at 5:31 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

1. I disagree. There's is progression. A vet with 90 will have a stronger arsenal petal than without any. That's progression to me. 

what's the point of this thread if you change the definition of words?

[Makunogo]

6 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

what's the point of this thread if you change the definition of words?

the OP stating that a veteran will likely have better rivens since they have had more time to improve them(regardless of the means) is a form of progression(an improvement from a previous state) at least that is how i would take in what the person said.

but to your actual post. there is many ways people translate things or perceive them so at the least we should try to understand them. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Makunogo

[Zi-Sui]

On 2018-10-27 at 6:07 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm trying to see if it goes beyond riven envy.

I said in 2 other topics you been in the same thing I'm gonna say now: at their current state of no disposition updates rivens don't break meta, they enforce it. And I got a good riven for enough good weapons, no reason for me to be jealous. I wonder how many more topics like this we're gonna be where you ignore what you don't like to see being said.

[Hypernaut1]

20 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

what's the point of this thread if you change the definition of words?

How am I changing the definition of words?

I simply see progression as a state of getting stronger. Having 90 rivens means you're stronger than before. 

 

And forgive some of my horribpe autocorrect typos. I swear these things are getting worse.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Hypernaut1]

10 minutes ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

I said in 2 other topics you been in the same thing I'm gonna say now: at their current state of no disposition updates rivens don't break meta, they enforce it. And I got a good riven for enough good weapons, no reason for me to be jealous. I wonder how many more topics like this we're gonna be where you ignore what you don't like to see being said.

Well maybe I'm looking for a more in depth answer than "disposition breaks game!" There have been far better points given in this very thread. 

How many times are you going to demand people accept your answers without understanding it's just an opinion and not fact? Therefore I don't have to accept what you've said in 2 other topics I've been in. 

No point in trying to berate me when there is more than enough conversation to be had here.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Zi-Sui]

19 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Well maybe I'm looking for a more in depth answer than "disposition breaks game!" There have been far better points given in this very thread. 

How many times are you going to demand people accept your answers without understanding it's just an opinion and not fact? Therefore I don't have to accept what you've said in 2 other topics I've been in. 

No point in trying to berate me when there is more than enough conversation to be had here.

You were the one calling your opposition jealous repeatedly.

Some facts: Tonkor 1, Venka 1, Simulor 1, Twin Grakatas 2, Sydon 2, Akbolto 2, Dual Kamas 2.

Arca Plasmor 3, Amprex 3, Plague Kripath 3, Pyrana 4, Tiberon 5, Gram 5, Kohm 5 (might actually be justified but a lot of people use it on endo farm), Twin Gremlins 5.

Quite a few weapons would likely see a disposition change if it was updated, namely all abovementioned. For some it would be more radical, like Pyrana.

As for your original question, rivens are terrible because of the RNG. The best you can hope for is a decent roll in the first 50 rolls, getting more means getting lucky. Combine that with the laborous kuva grind and you got a soup that makes people salty the wrong way. It's just faster to farm the platinum and buy a riven you really want than to reroll, unless you get lucky. It's by far the worst grind-related RNG this game has, that why there are a lot of people salty with it. Not updating disposition adds up to it.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

3 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

 While you may personally be getting good rolls in 20/less, I'm on my 83rd roll for the rubico and I keep getting Negative crit/Multishot stats over and over again.

This is so untrue. So in 82 rolls every negative was - crit/multishot? Nope.

What you mean is that with those 82 rolls none of them is what I wanted therefore the system is bad. Yeah, I may have rolled +impact damage but that's not what I wanted. 

This is your personal issue with being unsatisfied. Your weapon got stronger by using a riven, you just refuse to accept the buffs offered.

[AlinaBee]

pure gacha preying on human psychology

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

what's the point of this thread

Wondering the same, especially after I read...

15 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I really think that's one of the major difference between players. Some feel they need certain rivens or rolls to feel satisfied, others, like me, can just roll with it and see it as a cherry on top of gameplay. 

Which is really just another way of saying "envy". We're back to square one.

I'd love to know what I'm envious of though, really I would. I've already brought it up in the thread but didn't really get a response to it. I cannot use Rivens, they have little to no impact on my gameplay because they do not exist for the weapon I love. How am I envious because I haven't gotten a "god roll" when I literally cannot roll for it?

The few Rivens I do have are good, and are for weapons that I sometimes enjoy using, I don't feel the need to roll them any further.

What am I envious of? I'd really love to know how I fit into this situation, because I keep reading "it's 100% envy" instead of actual counter arguments. What is the point of this thread when it's never even been a discussion. This thread goes nowhere if your response to every point is to try and dismiss it as an emotionally fueled argument, and that applies to everyone.

In fact, are DE envious? They've officially stated that they dropped the ball and are going to sort it out. That means DE want it to change as well. If everyone who wants Rivens to change is envious, then surely that applies to DE as well? It doesn't, obviously, because the mindset isn't logical.

Edited October 30, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Hypernaut1]

7 hours ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

You were the one calling your opposition jealous repeatedly.

Some facts: Tonkor 1, Venka 1, Simulor 1, Twin Grakatas 2, Sydon 2, Akbolto 2, Dual Kamas 2.

Arca Plasmor 3, Amprex 3, Plague Kripath 3, Pyrana 4, Tiberon 5, Gram 5, Kohm 5 (might actually be justified but a lot of people use it on endo farm), Twin Gremlins 5.

Quite a few weapons would likely see a disposition change if it was updated, namely all abovementioned. For some it would be more radical, like Pyrana.

As for your original question, rivens are terrible because of the RNG. The best you can hope for is a decent roll in the first 50 rolls, getting more means getting lucky. Combine that with the laborous kuva grind and you got a soup that makes people salty the wrong way. It's just faster to farm the platinum and buy a riven you really want than to reroll, unless you get lucky. It's by far the worst grind-related RNG this game has, that why there are a lot of people salty with it. Not updating disposition adds up to it.

 Thank you. Now I can refute your points if I disagree. You can either try to further clarify it or just accept the fact we disagree on this issue. I've made plenty of points in this thread beyond "nuh-uh, you guys are jealous" if some of you would look. This berating that some of you do because I disagree is pointless to the discussion. You can simply just ignore me. I hate having to go off topic with meta debating.

Now, To address the actual topical substance of your post. Which I would prefer you either refute my points, or just agree to disagree.

1. I see some disposition changes I would raise, like the dual Kamas. It would make a few players happy, no one upset and won't break the game or make every other weapon in it's class obsolete. Win/win.

As for the high disposition weapons, sure some could use adjusting.... But I really don't see any problem weapons in that list. Im not constantly seeing arcas trivializing content or amprexes deleting rooms of enemies in every EOS or Arbitration mission. I don't see those weapons plaguing every mission. I don't (just personal experience) think that the community ignores every other weapon in it's class because of those (like how it used to be before rivens). What I do see is every now and then someone will have an awesome Riven for one of those weapons and wreck shop. That's fine with me. Im still seeing a variety most of the time. I have a few meta rivens, and while it does make those weapons even more awesome, for 99% of high end content I can take still take my other weapons with a Riven and have comparable results and TTK. So having a riven for my gram doesn't trivialize my other weapons with rivens. My Serra with an AWESOME riven does comparable damage and can do just as well in a sortie. My broken war without a riven doesn't compare to either rivened weapons, but still decent.  That's the point with rivens, it gives only some weapons a boost. I don't think it's absolutely necessary or urgent that devs readjust disposition so my serrra is guaranteed to do more damage my gram. I do wish my skana riven was a bit more OP though, maybe I just need to keep rolling it. 

So in conclusion I don't see the urgency needed for disposition changes. I don't see is Major effect on gameplay and I don't really see anyone making points on HOW a tiberon with a high disposition ruins gameplay and balance. My definition of "ruining gameplay" is if a weapon is so powerful everyone feels forced to use it, it trivializes content for most people, the power gap is so wide that everything else feels very weak in comparison. None of those strong weapons meet that criteria in my opinion. So again, I don't see the urgent need to have it changed when the biggest effect it would have is pissing people off. It certainly not a reason why "rivens are terrible" it's a minor hiccup to me if anything. A few players enjoying an awesome rare riven doesn't ruin the system or the game

2. We'll just have to agree to disagree with this point. What I consider a good roll is anything that makes my weapon better than it is without a riven. I can usually achieve that within 10- 20 rolls. To get an awesome roll can take more, but I work on that as I go. If it happens it happens. I can keep my previous roll so there isn't much risk involved. I can't lose progress on a Riven. 

For me the kuva grind isn't laborious because I don't grind it. I get enough from sorties and floods to satisfying my needs. That's purely subjective I guess, but like I said I'm usually satisfied within 20 rolls. That said, I always use kuva when i get it because I'm always seeking to improve what I have, but it's not urgent to me because I usually have "good" stats on my rivens. At most, I'll grind short-term to improve a newly unveiled riven, but never to point of burnout. 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Zi-Sui]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

1. I see some disposition changes I would raise, like the dual Kamas. It would make a few players happy, no one upset and won't break the game or make every other weapon in it's class obsolete. Win/win.

As for the high disposition weapons, sure some could use adjusting.... But I really don't see any problem weapons in that list. Im not constantly seeing arcas trivializing content or amprexes deleting rooms of enemies in every EOS or Arbitration mission. I don't see those weapons plaguing every mission. I don't (just personal experience) think that the community ignored every other weapon in it's class because of those. What I do see is every now and then someone will have an awesome Riven for one of those weapons and wreck shop. That's fine with me. Im still seeing a variety most of the time. I have a few meta rivens, and while it does make those weapons even more awesome, for 99% of high end content I can take still take my other weapons with a Riven and have comparable results and TTK. So having a riven for my gram doesn't trivialize my other weapons with rivens. My Serra with an AWESOME riven does comparable damage. I don't think it's absolutely necessary or urgent that devs readjust disposition so my serrra is guaranteed to do more damage my gram. I do wish my skana riven was a bit more OP though, maybe I just need to keep rolling it. 

So in conclusion I don't see the urgency needed for disposition changes. I don't see is Major effect on gameplay and I don't really see anyone making points on HOW a tiberon with a high disposition ruins gameplay and balance. My definition of "ruining gameplay" is if a weapon is so powerful everyone feels forced to use it, it trivializes content for most people, the power gap is so wide that everything else feels very weak in comparison. None of those strong weapons meet that criteria in my opinion. So again, I don't see the urgent need to have it changed when the biggest effect it would have is pissing people off. It certainly not a reason why "rivens are terrible" it's a minor hiccup to me if anything. A few players enjoying an awesome rare riven doesn't ruin the system or the game

2. We'll just have to agree to disagree with this point. What I consider a good roll is anything that makes my weapon better than it is without a riven. I can usually achieve that within 10- 20 rolls. To get an awesome roll can take more, but I work on that as I go. If it happens it happens. I can keep my previous roll so there isn't much risk involved. I can't lose progress on a Riven. 

For me the kuva grind isn't laborious because I don't grind it. I get enough from sorties and floods to satisfying my needs. That's purely subjective I guess, but like I said I'm usually satisfied within 20 rolls. That said, I always use kuva when i get it because I'm always seeking to improve what I have, but it's not urgent to me because I usually have "good" stats on my rivens. At most, I'll grind short-term to improve a newly unveiled riven, but never to point of burnout. 

 

I think we're gonna have to agrer to disagree on some of those weapons getting a different disposition, because right now I can see each and every weapon I listed changing disposition. Amprex and Arca Plasmor are the least likely of those but they could still go down a disposition from what I've seen. But maybe not since there's less weapons in lower dispositions. I just thought those two would go there but that's speculation.

Anyhow, I agree in that I don't mind Tiberon Prime wrecking a target or Pyrana Prime mowing down a room in one breath, I do it myself too. I'm just having a hard time seeing them maintain their disposition, after which they should still achieve similiar results unless they both go down to disposition 1 maybe. My Tigris Prime is a beast with 1/5 disposition so I doubt those two innately powerful weapons become so much less used due to their innate power. Nor much less powerful, even at 1/5 disposition.

I agree that kuva grind is not laborous when you don't need much of it. But being honest here, you just don't get anywhere close to a god roll with 50 rolls without lucking out. Some people have rolled a single riven 400+ times actually, while the most runs it took somebody to get a single Harrow piece was 80+. And even with a booster, one Harrow piece run takes twice less time than to get enough kuva for just one roll unless there's a quick flood and you're good with them. So it's not entirely a matter of opinion, even though it's a matter of preferrence for what kind of rolls you can live with. And we're not talking about getting the riven for right weapon, though with the current prices that's much less of a problem.

I agree that having rivens the way we have them is better than not having them at all, they do bring interest to the game. They just could be in so much better place, at least somewhat in line with the rest of the content, not behind horrible and unforgiving layers of RNG and either floods for only the skilled (I can survive a flood easily but just can't hit the bloody thing) and survival slowness for the rest of us. The worst part is, going for god roll is equivalent to subjecting yourself to inhuman amounts of grind for quite possibly no reward whatsoever, and I can bloody well take a roll one stat away from god roll if I wanna really max out which I don't with this kind of grind, so the only feasible option is to reroll it until it's a good or decent roll for every weapon you want rivened, sell the demigod rolls you got unless you really need them, and buy the best roll you can afford from someone who got lucky with the slot machine. Because everyone except those who like challenge and gimping themselves for it would be happy with god rolls, and even they probably like it.

So there's an incentive. You can ignore that sure, I ignore it too since it's a pain. But that doesn't make the problem to go away.

There's a reason nobody complains how expensive zaw and operator arcanes are. They cost 150-500p per a max ranked one, pennies compared to good weapon god roll riven, but the point is you can grind those without that horrible RNG. Same with prime parts. And similiar with eidolon arcanes.

On the othet hand, rivens are mods and a lot of those good mods are rare, yes. But that's only their drop chance. The rarest mod might cost 300p unranked which again, is pennies compared to rivens. And you're more likely to see those rare mods drop than getting a single demigod roll you could sell for 2k+ platinum. If everybody would get even demigod rolls, god rolls wouldn't cost so much but trash rolls on good weapons would cost more, and it would be quaranteed that everyone would buy the cheapest trash roll for good weapon riven and roll it themselves, even with the clunky kuva grind we have now. So I doubt DE would lose money if it was easier to get good rolls, as long as you keep that weapon you get for riven random.

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

I think we're gonna have to agrer to disagree on some of those weapons getting a different disposition, because right now I can see each and every weapon I listed changing disposition. Amprex and Arca Plasmor are the least likely of those but they could still go down a disposition from what I've seen. But maybe not since there's less weapons in lower dispositions. I just thought those two would go there but that's speculation.

Anyhow, I agree in that I don't mind Tiberon Prime wrecking a target or Pyrana Prime mowing down a room in one breath, I do it myself too. I'm just having a hard time seeing them maintain their disposition, after which they should still achieve similiar results unless they both go down to disposition 1 maybe. My Tigris Prime is a beast with 1/5 disposition so I doubt those two innately powerful weapons become so much less used due to their innate power. Nor much less powerful, even at 1/5 disposition.

I agree that kuva grind is not laborous when you don't need much of it. But being honest here, you just don't get anywhere close to a god roll with 50 rolls without lucking out. Some people have rolled a single riven 400+ times actually, while the most runs it took somebody to get a single Harrow piece was 80+. And even with a booster, one Harrow piece run takes twice less time than to get enough kuva for just one roll unless there's a quick flood and you're good with them. So it's not entirely a matter of opinion, even though it's a matter of preferrence for what kind of rolls you can live with. And we're not talking about getting the riven for right weapon, though with the current prices that's much less of a problem.

I agree that having rivens the way we have them is better than not having them at all, they do bring interest to the game. They just could be in so much better place, at least somewhat in line with the rest of the content, not behind horrible and unforgiving layers of RNG and either floods for only the skilled (I can survive a flood easily but just can't hit the bloody thing) and survival slowness for the rest of us. The worst part is, going for god roll is equivalent to subjecting yourself to inhuman amounts of grind for quite possibly no reward whatsoever, and I can bloody well take a roll one stat away from god roll if I wanna really max out which I don't with this kind of grind, so the only feasible option is to reroll it until it's a good or decent roll for every weapon you want rivened, sell the demigod rolls you got unless you really need them, and buy the best roll you can afford from someone who got lucky with the slot machine. Because everyone except those who like challenge and gimping themselves for it would be happy with god rolls, and even they probably like it.

So there's an incentive. You can ignore that sure, I ignore it too since it's a pain. But that doesn't make the problem to go away.

There's a reason nobody complains how expensive zaw and operator arcanes are. They cost 150-500p per a max ranked one, pennies compared to good weapon god roll riven, but the point is you can grind those without that horrible RNG. Same with prime parts. And similiar with eidolon arcanes.

On the othet hand, rivens are mods and a lot of those good mods are rare, yes. But that's only their drop chance. The rarest mod might cost 300p unranked which again, is pennies compared to rivens. And you're more likely to see those rare mods drop than getting a single demigod roll you could sell for 2k+ platinum. If everybody would get even demigod rolls, god rolls wouldn't cost so much but trash rolls on good weapons would cost more, and it would be quaranteed that everyone would buy the cheapest trash roll for good weapon riven and roll it themselves, even with the clunky kuva grind we have now. So I doubt DE would lose money if it was easier to get good rolls, as long as you keep that weapon you get for riven random.

Now don't get me wrong, I can see disposition changing for some weapons, my argument is that it's not urgent. I don't think it's a major issue for rivens as a system. More of a tidying up maintenance that can be done. I do believe that constantly changing dispo based on popularity will upset more people that solve problems in game though. There's a difference between popular and overuse. I think the current Arca/lenz is popular, the old simulor was overuse. 

I definitely don't think the system is perfect. But I'm enjoying what we have. My biggest disappointment with rivens is that the stats are boring. Sure, it's a power boost, but rolling really comes down to just chasing CC/CD for many weapons. I'd prefer more creative procs on rivens, like you get in traditional ARPGs. Heck, even cosmetic modifiers could be cool and make things a bit more interesting. But my points as to why rivens are one of the best additions to the game still stands IMO.

[DeMonkey]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

my argument is that it's not urgent.

I don't see where anyone you're disagreeing with has argued that it is urgent. Just that it should happen, it's been stated to happen and some of us would quite like to see sub-par weapons become a bit more usable.

You're arguing against a point that hasn't been raised, so far as I can see _{(that's a strawman)}. Plus if your argument is that it's not urgent, why did you not bring it up in your OP?

I agree that it's not urgent, but frankly nor are 90% of the bug fixes for this game beyond the game breaking ones. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't be fixed, and that certainly doesn't mean people shouldn't ask for them to be fixed.

Does Gram Prime ruin the game? No. Has anyone actually said it has? No. Why are you making an argument out of it? Who knows.

Neither the Gram being powerful and having a strong disposition, nor the Dread being rather sub-par nowadays and having a weaker disposition break the game in any way. But why does that mean it shouldn't be changed? Why does that mean people can't ask for it to be changed? If Disposition is never changed again then you might as well do away with the entire system.

And hey, if you don't like it when I point out your Strawmans, argue that they aren't Strawmen. I mean, if you don't think they are then you must have a reason for it. Argue that they aren't, if you can't I'm entirely justified because no one gets a free pass on dishonest arguments. It'll go a lot better than sending me a pm tantamount to harassment 

Edited October 30, 2018 by DeMonkey

[ArbitUHM]

5 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I really think that's one of the major difference between players. Some feel they need certain rivens or rolls to feel satisfied, others, like me, can just roll with it and see it as a cherry on top of gameplay. 

Which is really just another way of saying "envy". We're back to square one.

 

No I think it's closer to what he actually said - that some players have very different standards about what a "decent" roll is. You have people in this thread saying 50 rolls will only get you a decent roll. I have not rolled any of mine (I have 48) more than 15 times, and most of them are just fine for sorties and adjudications. Rolling a single Riven 50 times is crazypants and completely unnecessary to me.

Similarly, there are people saying that low-tier weapons will never be usable even with god-tier Rivens, and honestly I don't think they have tried or have a very different definition of the word "usable". Even bottom tier weapons with like Bolto and Flux Rifle will pull you through a sortie with just a mediocre Riven.

I get that it's kind of unfair and not real logical that a Tiberon Prime is eligible for the same boosts that a Flux Rifle is, but that doesn't stop a Flux Rifle from being a fun and usable weapon with a Riven. 

[DeMonkey]

43 minutes ago, ArbitUHM said:

No I think it's closer to what he actually said - that some players have very different standards about what a "decent" roll is. You have people in this thread saying 50 rolls will only get you a decent roll. I have not rolled any of mine (I have 48) more than 15 times, and most of them are just fine for sorties and adjudications. Rolling a single Riven 50 times is crazypants and completely unnecessary to me.

Similarly, there are people saying that low-tier weapons will never be usable even with god-tier Rivens, and honestly I don't think they have tried or have a very different definition of the word "usable". Even bottom tier weapons with like Bolto and Flux Rifle will pull you through a sortie with just a mediocre Riven.

I get that it's kind of unfair and not real logical that a Tiberon Prime is eligible for the same boosts that a Flux Rifle is, but that doesn't stop a Flux Rifle from being a fun and usable weapon with a Riven. 

But that's not even close to being actual envy, and it's certainly not "everyone is envious, that's why they want dispositions changed" which is what the thread as a whole is about. That's just people having different standards of "good".

You said it yourself, it's not logical that Tiberon has the Disposition that it does, when that's supposed to be reserved for sub-par weapons. Why is it wrong for people to want that changed? Why is everyone wanting that changed dismissed with some "you're envious of people with god rolls" nonsense.

Read the thread, OP asks for points as to why people don't like Rivens, people give valid points much like the one you've just listed, people get called envious anyway.

I'm sure there are some people who are envious and want dispositions changed out of spite, but that's absolutely the minority.

As a side note, I have a Braton Riven I'd consider good, +100% status chance, +180% damage, -20% damage to Grineer. Not Sortie viable.

Edited October 30, 2018 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Il y a 10 heures, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru a dit :

This is so untrue. So in 82 rolls every negative was - crit/multishot? Nope.

What you mean is that with those 82 rolls none of them is what I wanted therefore the system is bad. Yeah, I may have rolled +impact damage but that's not what I wanted. 

This is your personal issue with being unsatisfied. Your weapon got stronger by using a riven, you just refuse to accept the buffs offered.

There's plenty of weapon destroying stats to make that very true.
Who are you to conclude that it's impossible and that I didn't get bad luck 82 times in a row?
As far as I know, I'm the one holding this cursed riven with 82 rolls and everything I've received so far was "Neg Damage/multishot/crit damage/crit chance" in no way is this a buff.

Oh but, what if, what if the very next roll is a good one? Yeahhhhh... No, I'm not falling for this crap another hundred time.

Do you know the frustration of gambling your life away holding on to the thought that "Surely there's no way the next roll is gonna be the same crap", but being deceived over and over again by the game's RNG troll?
Gambling your progression SHOULD LITERALLY NOT be a thing.

But no, keep holding on to your delusions.
You got your good roll on the first try, this means that it's impossible for everyone else to be cursed by that same system.
Surely this system can't be flawed if it works for some people, right?

Edited October 30, 2018 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Who are you to conclude that it's impossible and that I didn't get bad luck 82 times in a row?

Stopped reading after this. We're done here.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

à l’instant, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru a dit :

Stopped reading after this. We're done here.

Yep, delusions.
You've refused to acknowledge a mathematical probability just because you weren't hit by it.

Have a good day.