So There Are Lots Of Nerfs, What The F?&/" Happened To The...

[.Monarch]

What happened to the whole "Vauban, Nova is the new standard, we are going to bring everything up to par instead of nerfing"?????

 

No seriously, I'm not a Vauban fan, but DE you gotta keep your promise, you can't shove your own foot back into your mouth, that ain't healthy!

 

Stop nerf this nerf that, bring things up a notch. If you seriously want balance, then why don't you just enforce everybody using Mk-1 Braton, Lato and Skana? There will always be people who knows how to bring the maximum potential of a Frame or Weapon out, and when that happens people start whining how it's OP, needs nerf.

 

A sword doesn't need to be sharpen further, or make it duller. It depends on the one who wields it. A great swordsman can use a wooden stick to defeat an opponent, while an idiot would accidentally kill himself even if he was given the finest blade on Earth.

 

You nerf Vauban, people will just move onto something else. Then people will start crying about how that is OP, then go ahead and nerf that too. Then people shifts again and cry then the entire rinse and repeat once more. 

 

On another note:

There aren't much Trinity users to begin with. Taking the invulnerability away is just a bad move IMO. Yes, it is ridiculous that Trinity have God mode and what not, it is also silly how you can just spam Energy Vampire, Link, Ult and you'll be golden. But regardless of how "OP" Trinity is, nobody really touches it. Now that the extremely lucrative advantage Trinity has is gone, I can't see what else reason a player would choose Trinity over any other Frame.

 

One of the reason you're balancing things is to try to make players try a different varieties, is it not? Instead of cramping a set of "end-game" gear and be golden, you want to let the player base to be and have more varieties, tuning down something that's already covered in dust. I just don't see how that will help you achieve what you want in any way.

[PsychedelicSnake]

What happened to the whole "Vauban, Nova is the new standard, we are going to bring everything up to par instead of nerfing"?????

We happened.

[Angius]

People being like "Ooooooh, nerf Vauban, hes to OP hes trollinnng usss!!!!1111" and "Hooooo, nerf Nova shes tooo OP she totally stole mine killlll!!!!!!11111" happened...

[PsychedelicSnake]

People being like "Ooooooh, nerf Vauban, hes to OP hes trollinnng usss!!!!1111" and "Hooooo, nerf Nova shes tooo OP she totally stole mine killlll!!!!!!11111" happened...

Yeah. WE happened.

[NovusNiveus]

Nerf the forums now! Their damage rating is far too high!

[123Olympian]

There was like 3 nerfs and sevral buffs. Stop complaining.

Edited September 5, 2013 by 123Olympian

[.Monarch]

There was like 3 nerfs and sevral buffs. Stop complaining.

 

You clearly didn't read my reasoning. Let me recap for you.

 

1) Back few weeks (Around Nova time) DE made promise that, Vauban, Nova will be the new standard for Frames, things will be brought up to par, instead of nerf.

 

2) Trinity is an unpopular Frame, its God mode is the only incentive/reason people would even consider using it. Taking that away, doesn't matter what you buff, it's simply taking away the sole reason why people would even consider using that, comparing with all the other Frames out there.

 

Conclusion:

1) DE nerfing Vauban, that's breaking the promise. I have no love for Vauban, but this is about principle. This ain't right, and honestly I'd rather see Excalibur, Mag, Ember and all other Frames made awesome instead of Vauban turning into an old crippling battle technician.

 

2) I'm just stating I don't see the logic, reason, and profit behind nerfing something "meh" and buff it with "whatever".

Edited September 5, 2013 by Rain-Maker

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

I tell you what happened. Gamers deteriorated to a bunch of bloody elitists who think that is it their duty to scream on forums about how good they are and how game is easy, meanwhile having no idea on game balance, demanding stuff to be nerfed to the ground because of their selfish and distorded goals.

[jrkong]

There was like 3 nerfs and sevral buffs. Stop complaining.

HAHA very funny you realize murdering a Warframe's key traits to "balance" the playing field isn't a good way to do things. Honestly this is like Rhino (Iron Skin) all over again.

 

Truth be told it sounds like the new Bastille will be powercreeped by Necro's Terror Totem right now as Terror Totem makes things run away as well as hold them in place.

Edited September 5, 2013 by jrkong

[PsychedelicSnake]

 having no idea on game balance, demanding stuff to be nerfed to the ground because of their selfish and distorded goals.

QFT

[Verazix]

What happened to the whole "Vauban, Nova is the new standard, we are going to bring everything up to par instead of nerfing"?????

They're getting around to abilities which are impossible to balance. It's impossible to balance the game around invulnerability/nigh invulnerability and permanent CCs (though admittedly, only Infested could be permanently CCed, and Bastille's nerf is definitely a byproduct of that; hopefully Infested are also the only ones who are effected by the Bastille nerf as well). Hopefully it's a sign of the times and we don't have any odd double standards. I fully expect to see Invisibility, Smoke Bomb, and Sonar to be looked at (Sonar is another impossible to balance ability). You can't balance around the abilities without ruining it for those without, and if you don't balance around them they trivialize encounters. This should come a long way to fixing the issues of the game, contrary to popular belief.

But as I've said before today, let's not get our panties in a wad yet. We still don't even know the numbers nor how "bad" the nerf will be. Let's sit tight, be patient, and hope for the best overall outcome.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Verazix

[Tenyu]

They nerfed trinity AND vauban? wat? K now i'm mad.

 

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

[TemetNosce]

Good focus, and I agree - ignoring this issue for the moment to address this in a broader sense, DE really needs to work more on the clarity of their communication with the player base. Whenever we get a response from DE it usually winds up confusing me more than anything else. The perfect example of this would be armor, first they said nothing, then after a nonstop barrage of discussions of how to fix it they said it worked as intended, then suddenly after saying this they turn around and say they'll redo it.

 

I feel like I have no idea where in the world they intend to go with the game at this point, I don't know if they intend to make it more or less interactive, whether they're working to bring frames up or down, or really much anything past that more cosmetic options will continue to acrue.

[NeverNever]

Because they finally realized that just buffing stuff leads to this thing called "Power Creep", which is EXTREMELY bad for a PvE game. Nova, Vauban, the acrid, if everything was on par with those things, it would be impossible to actually develop challenging content.

People wanting only buffs are looking at the short term, rather than the long term. They are so worried about losing there big uber I win buttons, that they don't seem to notice they are actually making the game worse.

 

 

EDIT:- Oh, and trinity isn't getting nerfed. Seriously, she's getting made better in every way, except now you need to actually USE blessing to be completely invulnerable for as long as you could ever reasonably need to be, and in return you are getting the ability to actually compete with other frames in other respects.

Edited September 5, 2013 by NeverNever

[Angius]

They nerfed trinity AND vauban? wat? K now i'm mad.

 

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Bastille will stop only certain amount of enemies, Link will no longer grant invincibility, only damage reduction.

[Hayden11121]

How do you bring everything to Vauban and Nova level?

 

There is only so much you can do before playing god mode gets boring.

 

A challenge is needed, and we won't get one with Nova/ Vauban.

[honeybadger]

Bastille will stop only certain amount of enemies, Link will no longer grant invincibility, only damage reduction.

BUT WE STILL HAVE BLESS.  

 

and link is now multi-target along with AoE energy vamp.  Trinity received a BUFF.

[Sixty5]

That stance is still true, but they never said that that standard was fixed in place. It's DE's game, and they can do what they want with it.

[BadAimbot]

I tell you what happened. Gamers deteriorated to a bunch of bloody elitists who think that is it their duty to scream on forums about how good they are and how game is easy, meanwhile having no idea on game balance, demanding stuff to be nerfed to the ground because of their selfish and distorded goals.

 

And yet I could use that exact same reasoning to say that the elitists who love being OP don't want their toys to be brought in line with everyone else's.

[VScipii26]

Because upping everyone to Vaunban/Nova level would destroy any sense of challenge outside of T3 Nightmare Mobile Extermination Survival with a Raptor thrown in.

They did need reworks. I love how people are completely ignoring the fixes and buffs that they're getting alongside the small nerfs. Link will affect multiple enemies. Well of Life is getting a boost. Blessing gives invincibility at the start of the cast. Vortex will not affect teammates.

What happened is that the Devs got smarter than the people who were saying "Absolutely no nerfs" and realized that you can't buff everything through the roof, and at some point have to bring something down, or else the enemies will be forced to be bullet sponges.

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

And yet I could use that exact same reasoning to say that the elitists who love being OP don't want their toys to be brought in line with everyone else's.

 

They don't want to be OP, they want to scream on forums about them being OP.

[Yinkuji]

Because they finally realized that just buffing stuff leads to this thing called "Power Creep", which is EXTREMELY bad for a PvE game. Nova, Vauban, the acrid, if everything was on par with those things, it would be impossible to actually develop challenging content.

People wanting only buffs are looking at the short term, rather than the long term. They are so worried about losing there big uber I win buttons, that they don't seem to notice they are actually making the game worse.

 

 

EDIT:- Oh, and trinity isn't getting nerfed. Seriously, she's getting made better in every way, except now you need to actually USE blessing to be completely invulnerable for as long as you could ever reasonably need to be, and in return you are getting the ability to actually compete with other frames in other respects.

To add to this.

 

[Agent_of_Change]

There was no Nerfs or Buffs it's all in your head.  Can we please step out of the idea that things are fixed, we can argue about what "beta" means all day long but at the end of the days as long as DE puts the "beta" tag on the game they are advertising for the record that the game is a work in progress and that anything and everything can be changed.

 

Now it seems to me they have rebalanced/refocused the warframes in question.  I'm not happy with all the changes either but i also fully expect any changes that are actually a mistake to be further modified in the future.  More to the point it seems that they have tried to feed more specific purposes to the frames rather than everyone can do everything (further enforcing a need for variety in parties.  Hey now the best tank in the whole game actually IS the Rhino... imagine that, maybe just maybe that was the intent.  

 

- The Trinity is now focused primarily as an effective health and energy returning utility warframe instead of the best tank in the game, seems fair.

 

- The Ember is now a more aggressive straight damage dealer, and not a damage sink, sadly most of the powers are very very similar but I do believe in time DE will get back around to it.

 

- The Nyx and Mags are just getting straight fixes that they needed to re balance them.

 

- The vaubans powers are getting one much needed fix and a rebalancing of a single power.

 

But the one thing that hasn't happened is that we haven'

t seen the numbers behind the proposed changes, we haven't seen them in action, maybe just maybe we should see the rebalance in the context of all the changes being made... because that's the devs eye view.  Myopic whining about pet *@##$es when big things are afoot solve nothing.  Take a deep breath, calm down, voice your fears and at least wait for the patch to starting the silly screaming about how X is ruined forever.

[neKroMancer]

Players seem to see thing in a smaller scale than usual when it comes to balancing the game. Screaming that power A is useless without any data, gameplay, and stat to back up the accusation is simply....pointless. I think DE's statement about using Vauban and Nova as new standard is more about design than actual stat. One is straight damage dealer while another is straight CC. Both of them create a totally different way to play the game and that's the actual "standard" in mechanic.

However, if you persist on looking at nothing but stat and satisfaction of blowing things up then I have two questions.

How would you buff Overload and WoF to M.Prime's level?

How would you buff CC powers to Bastile's level?

It is an impossible task to achieve without break the game's balance to pieces. Buff subpar powers a bit and toning OP powers down a notch is the way to deal with it and DE finally realized that this method is better than straight buff/nerf a single power. Invulnerability is BS design anyway and I'm glad DE finally have the gut to deal with it. Similar to Rhino situation months ago.

Although, I have to say that DE staffs are bloody stubborn when it comes to certain subjects.

[EclipsedHusky]

On another note:

There aren't much Trinity users to begin with. Taking the invulnerability away is just a bad move IMO. Yes, it is ridiculous that Trinity have God mode and what not, it is also silly how you can just spam Energy Vampire, Link, Ult and you'll be golden. But regardless of how "OP" Trinity is, nobody really touches it. Now that the extremely lucrative advantage Trinity has is gone, I can't see what else reason a player would choose Trinity over any other Frame.

BLESSING still PARTY based invinciblity...