Dojo decorating; frustrating collision + ideas for creation tools

[Salenzar]

Hey all,

Since I can no longer find the Clan & Dojo feedback forum, I can only assume this is the place to post any feedback regarding dojos, and more specifically: decorating.
First of, I'll get into some of the major gripes I've encountered so far, and lastly I'll go into something which could, most likely, be called wishful thinking, with regards to ideas for new decoration tools.

Frustrations:
While I'm calling this frustrations, I think that everything frustrating about dojo decorating can be summed up in one word: collision. 
The issue I have with the placement of just about any object (finished object, or just initial placement), is how most of it is fine, except for the way the game detects, and responds to collision between objects. It's not uncommon to have an object wildly jump from position to position by half a mile when you're trying to move it an inch, and while I (sort of) understand what's happening in the game's engine, the main question it raises for me is: 
Why?
While it is true that I am not familiar with coding, and the decoration system must already be a nightmare to code for to begin with, I still cannot begin to fathom why, especially considering how complicated it already is, objects must have such a strict form of collision while placing them? This becomes even more mind-boggling as, when you really get into decorating, you start to realize that all you're doing is just arranging and rearranging objects with the sole purpose to bypass said collision. Why is it that I cannot place two objects to overlap each other because there is a completely arbitrary collision in place that prevents me from doing so, but when I only place one of those objects, and then slide the other object on top of it, it suddenly isn't a problem anymore? The same goes for trying to place pillars to overlap with the standard dojo pillars - you have the most horrendous experience imaginable, but I cannot understand why. Why must I first put the camera into some kind of headlock before it's even remotely possible to overlap the two, and even then the objects bounces wildly across the room, as if possessed by some kind of undying wish to not intersect with another object? The same goes for room ceilings and floors, which are completely rigid when you want to place an object just an inch into the floor, so as to make it natural, which is completely impossible. Don't even get me started on rotating objects into other objects, which is just a prime example of how we are all desperately trying to bypass this arbitrary collision.

To me, it all seems like this is contrary to creativity. It is such a constraint, and while I understand that constraints are necessary in some parts - making sure you can't make doors completely inaccessible, for example - having constraints this severe just makes decorating a chore. As creators of whatever art we're trying to make in our dojos, why can we not simply let the player be responsible for what it is that they create, even if that creation is disfunctional? I cannot help but feel that this kind of collision is there to prevent missteps being made, but I feel that the only constraint we will ever need is to be able to enter the room, so we could remove any decorations that might hinder us from moving through the room. I see the need for room entrances to be unbuildable space due to the aforementioned, but I fail to see why it is beneficial to have collision on objects while we are placing them. Just let us overlap them in whatever way we see fit. If it doesn't work, or look ugly, we'll fix it ourselves.  

This is pretty much my main gripe with dojo decoration. Everything below this is just wishful thinking, so the actual feedback ends here.

Decoration tools
Bear with me on this one, as, to be quite honest, this is something that made an appearance in a feverish dream I had a couple of weeks back. (Don't ask why I dream about dojo decorating, and not about intense grineer space battles... I don't know, and yes, it's strange, even to me.)

What this dream was about was, put quite simply, dojo decorating, but in a far more elaborate style than what we have now. It had free-form room construction with rooms connecting both horizontally as well as vertically, with vertically merged rooms and spherical walkways that spanned across multiple rooms. Put quite simply, this would be nigh impossible. Just wanted to let you guys fantasize about this a bit. What I also saw, and which, hopefully, might be a bit more feasible, was the placement of water. 

Water and other dedicated tools
What I dreamed of was the ability to create set spaces of water, almost as if placing fluid bricks of lego. Despite it being a dream, it was nothing so crazy as physics-based water that molded itself to the environment, just plain "building blocks" of water that would allow us to create our own spaces of water for in the dojo. As it stands now, I cannot help but feel that what the dojo lacks most is the ability to have water. Aquariums with fish are another matter entirely, and I will not go into that topic at all. 
Having the ability to place these kind of building blocks would allow us to create whatever we want, whether it is a lake, pond, or just a small canal. Of course, in order for this to work we would, ironically, have to be able to place these water blocks slightly under the surface of the floor, but that is due to the collision which I already talked about in the small booklet mentioned above. I understand this could be a tremendous undertaking, but at the same time, it would not be so different from the decorations we already have; they can consist of preset blocks, which we can alter in size to suit our needs, and they would need to consist of water. Giving a sense of directional flow would not be hard either, since waterfalls already do this as well. 

The shape of this water, then, would be the biggest obstacle, seeing as to how square blocks of water would just be plain silly, unless when building a walled off canal of sorts. I do have faith it can be done though, although this next suggestion might be incredibly difficult to implement: dedicated tools.
Imagine that we would not be simply placing blocks of water, but having a dedicated tool to shape our own water. Imagine it as the spray can from any type of editing software, where you decide where, in what shape, and how dense you spray something. I realize this latter part is incredibly wishful thinking, but it would open up all sorts of other paths; what if we could have other dedicated tools, to create piles of sand/earth to give more shape to our dojo rooms? The possibilities would be endless.

That's pretty much it for now, let me know what you think.

TL;DR  -  Collision on decorations bad, want it good, moar water pl0x. 

 

[DreisterDino]

Fully agree, that placement system is unnecessary complicated.

They should simply remove the hitboxes the objects have as long as they are not funded.

After decorating alot, i cant find motivation to build something else i have in mind because of these issues. Its simply annoying.

 

Anyway, there are workarounds (but the fact that those exists is another argument to simply remove the weird hitboxes)

- when you want to rotate an object, it shows the axis (blue/red/green). If you take a long pillar for example, the pillar will have collision on the end where those axis are shown, but on the other end there will be no collisions with other objects - so when rotation doesnt make a difference, just rotate it to clip it into something else.

 

- When you are inside of an big object with your camera, you can move other parts into in without any problem, its only a problem when the camera is outside.

 

 

Again, although these workarounds exist, this should get some changes sooner or later, and this methods i explained help sometimes, but not always.

[Salenzar]

7 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Anyway, there are workarounds (but the fact that those exists is another argument to simply remove the weird hitboxes)

- when you want to rotate an object, it shows the axis (blue/red/green). If you take a long pillar for example, the pillar will have collision on the end where those axis are shown, but on the other end there will be no collisions with other objects - so when rotation doesnt make a difference, just rotate it to clip it into something else.

 

- When you are inside of an big object with your camera, you can move other parts into in without any problem, its only a problem when the camera is outside.

Again, although these workarounds exist, this should get some changes sooner or later, and this methods i explained help sometimes, but not always.

Haha, I'm well aware of these workarounds, which is one of the main reasons I made this topic to begin with. The workarounds are straightup crazy, and, if anything, only serve to highlight how bad these issues are, that we need such crazy methods to fix them. As for the pillars, like you said, I know only 1 side of them has collision, which makes it all the more silly that they have collision at all, which is why I would rather see the collision gone entirely.

[DreisterDino]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Salenzar:

Haha, I'm well aware of these workarounds, which is one of the main reasons I made this topic to begin with. The workarounds are straightup crazy, and, if anything, only serve to highlight how bad these issues are, that we need such crazy methods to fix them.

Yes, and it doesnt work for everything you might want to do.. thats why i wrote "but the fact that those exists is another argument to simply remove the weird hitboxes" 😉