Valkyr 2.0: The Berserker Revival

[Synpai]

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[Andele3025]

All valkyr really needs is for her 1 to always pull for full length and 4 energy drain to not scale with time but damage taken (which should be calculated after armor comes into play while allowing her to lifesteal said damage (and possibly making her charge combo charge attack be the default charge attack instead of the generic sparring leg slam, but thats just my preference for attacks to not immobilize you).

[CometFireClaw]

her 1 needs more utility . like being able spider man a couple of enemies . maybe after you zipline one guy then whip lash him into a group making them rag doll for a couple of seconds

or hooking your line to a couple of guys and running around with them ragdolling behind..

yes this is silly.... but also fun

 

still in love with the ideal of adding health/energy steal to it tho

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by CometFireClaw

[Synpai]

On 2019-01-01 at 9:28 AM, Andele3025 said:

All valkyr really needs is for her 1 to always pull for full length and 4 energy drain to not scale with time but damage taken

Just to clarify I'm not a fan of "All this frame needs is X" arguments or reworks personally. I agree that there are more simplistic changes to get frames to "work" but I'd like something that feels like a full kit and wont result in the frame being made or broken by a single pillar or leave the frame outdated/unfulfilling after a month.

Most of the minimal changes that I've seen fail to remedy that Valkyr's current strength and usability relies heavily on the nonsensical reach and scaling of melee weapons (and the slash + viral combo) rather than being intrinsic to her kit. You take out the range and scaling of say heavy blades and she is significantly less potent. You'd be lucky to compete against most frames with something like dual swords or claws (this could change with melee 3.0, but I can't design around that). Regardless, they all still fall short to provide any synnergy greater than Warcry means more attackspeed for hysteria and ripline (if not used for movement) and paralysis are set up for finishers all of which are currently out-shadowed by weapons with longer range.

Combos and charge attacks seem like a discussion for post melee 3.0 as well.

 

On 2019-01-10 at 6:51 PM, CometFireClaw said:

her 1 needs more utility . like being able spider man a couple of enemies . maybe after you zipline one guy then whip lash him into a group making them rag doll for a couple of seconds

or hooking your line to a couple of guys and running around with them ragdolling behind..

Interesting, but I had the idea of tethering enemies behind for someone like Khora with her ensnare, pulling enemies behind her for various buffs depending on stance.

I think I'm leaning more toward Ripline turning into a Sonic dash of sorts when recast over the ability duration...where she turns into a "claw ball" and "rolls" at the target location, damaging and bouncing off before procing aimglide slow down so that you can just claw pinball all over the place. So it would basically still serve the same purpose as the current ripline. The pull would just function more like Exodia Hunt which is miles better and not even restricted to line of sight. 

[Gurpgork]

37 minutes ago, Synpai said:

Most of the minimal changes that I've seen fail to remedy that Valkyr's current strength and usability relies heavily on the nonsensical reach and scaling of melee weapons (and the slash + viral combo) rather than being intrinsic to her kit. You take out the range and scaling of say heavy blades and she is significantly less potent.

Well yeah. She's a weapon master. If the weapons suck, then Valkyr will suck, and that's all there is to it. The same thing goes for all of the other weapon master Warframes. That says more about the current melee system depending on janky mechanics than it says about Valkyr. Short of making Hysteria into more of a 100% uptime ability the way it used to be (which is a solution I really don't like at all), I don't see a lot that could be done to make her less weapon dependent without drastically changing her identity and her kit. 

[Synpai]

15 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Well yeah. She's a weapon master. If the weapons suck, then Valkyr will suck, and that's all there is to it. The same thing goes for all of the other weapon master Warframes. That says more about the current melee system depending on janky mechanics than it says about Valkyr. Short of making Hysteria into more of a 100% uptime ability the way it used to be (which is a solution I really don't like at all), I don't see a lot that could be done to make her less weapon dependent without drastically changing her identity and her kit. 

Who else are you considering to be a weapon master exactly?

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Synpai said:

Who else are you considering to be a weapon master exactly?

Banshee, Chroma, Mirage, Harrow, and Rhino to name a few. Warframes who depend almost entirely on boosting weapons for their damage output. 

[Andele3025]

6 hours ago, Synpai said:

Just to clarify I'm not a fan of "All this frame needs is X" arguments or reworks personally. I agree that there are more simplistic changes to get frames to "work" but I'd like something that feels like a full kit and wont result in the frame being made or broken by a single pillar or leave the frame outdated/unfulfilling after a month.

Most of the minimal changes that I've seen fail to remedy that Valkyr's current strength and usability relies heavily on the nonsensical reach and scaling of melee weapons (and the slash + viral combo) rather than being intrinsic to her kit. You take out the range and scaling of say heavy blades and she is significantly less potent. You'd be lucky to compete against most frames with something like dual swords or claws (this could change with melee 3.0, but I can't design around that). Regardless, they all still fall short to provide any synnergy greater than Warcry means more attackspeed for hysteria and ripline (if not used for movement) and paralysis are set up for finishers all of which are currently out-shadowed by weapons with longer range.

Combos and charge attacks seem like a discussion for post melee 3.0 as well.

Dude, it is literally all she needs tho. Her 4 has baseline higher dps than most melee have between 2x and 3.5x combo, with a gladiator stat stick and sac steel Talons scale well into "you should no longer be playing, even frames with 7k ehp get instakilled by infested goop" mission length. Either letting Hysteria on a decent setup drain only 1.3 instead of 5.04 energy a second (or as i said letting energy drain depend on damage taken compared to EHP which SHOULD BE REDUCED VIA LIFESTEAL) is the onyl thing holding back kitty from being invul monster instead of a melee stick (tho inaros, nezha and rhino are much better melee stick since they ignore cc). Letting her be  "The immortal claw machine" with a uptrime gimmick that isnt "stop fighting, recast, return to place where fight is" is not a bad thing just as Nidus being equally immortal as long enemies that arent cc immune/can be pulled by larva into a fat stack pile is also not a bad and in fact very very much a good thing.

Also no, both range and scaling of melee is quite sane/capped (zaw rivens and weapons that can fit CO without breaking being the only dps-to-range outliers when it comes to weapons with good stances and no other use; just as dual daggers, nunchaku and machetes are outliers in melee having a combo of low stat, tricky to use "good point", no unique or focused combat feature and S#&$ty stances-new machete one excluded) finishers are not overshadowed by reach, they are merely ignored by people that dont know how finishers work e.g. not knowing that front and back having different multiplier based on weapon type, it using hit average means raw value of the weapon as true damage means status and berserker which doesnt contribute to animation speed are not important/shouldnt be used on such setups, etc

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

Either letting Hysteria on a decent setup drain only 1.3 instead of 5.04 energy a second (or as i said letting energy drain depend on damage taken compared to EHP which SHOULD BE REDUCED VIA LIFESTEAL) is the onyl thing holding back kitty from being invul monster instead of a melee stick (tho inaros, nezha and rhino are much better melee stick since they ignore cc). Letting her be  "The immortal claw machine" with a uptrime gimmick that isnt "stop fighting, recast, return to place where fight is" is not a bad thing just as Nidus being equally immortal as long enemies that arent cc immune/can be pulled by larva into a fat stack pile is also not a bad and in fact very very much a good thing.

Risk of failure is a fundamentally important part of video games (or any game at all), and any version of Hysteria that allows it to easily have 100% uptime goes against that. Even Wukong and Nidus, who are commonly cited as being immortal, have a risk of failure, even in their relative immortality; When one of these Warframes dies, Nidus loses 15 stacks, and Wukong loses 25% of his energy. Your health bar can reach zero, and there is a concrete, quantifiable reason why you do not want to let that happen. Risk of failure.

Hysteria doesn't have any of that. Its sole limitation is energy. And in a game where you can spam energy pads to instantly get like 600 energy, let alone a game where you can put that effect on a flipping hotkey, that is not a limitation. She absolutely should be held back from becoming an immortal claw machine again like she used to be, and she was nerfed for a very good reason. 

So if any part of her kit gets improved, it should be literally anything but Hysteria. I'd rather her melee sticking got improved through buffing her other three abilities, which will directly benefit and synergize with Hysteria without pushing even harder the whole "use Hysteria all the time or you'd be better off with a different Warframe" thing. 

[Andele3025]

12 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Risk of failure is a fundamentally important part of video games (or any game at all), and any version of Hysteria that allows it to easily have 100% uptime goes against that. Even Wukong and Nidus, who are commonly cited as being immortal, have a risk of failure, even in their relative immortality; When one of these Warframes dies, Nidus loses 15 stacks, and Wukong loses 25% of his energy. Your health bar can reach zero, and there is a concrete, quantifiable reason why you do not want to let that happen. Risk of failure.

Hysteria doesn't have any of that. Its sole limitation is energy. And in a game where you can spam energy pads to instantly get like 600 energy, let alone a game where you can put that effect on a flipping hotkey, that is not a limitation. She absolutely should be held back from becoming an immortal claw machine again like she used to be, and she was nerfed for a very good reason. 

So if any part of her kit gets improved, it should be literally anything but Hysteria. I'd rather her melee sticking got improved through buffing her other three abilities, which will directly benefit and synergize with Hysteria without pushing even harder the whole "use Hysteria all the time or you'd be better off with a different Warframe" thing. 

Dude, at least 1/8th of the warframe roster has NO RISK OF FAILURE UNLESS THEY DONT KILL NULLIES (and the wave pothead skaters). The issue with Valkyr (and Chroma, Wudong, Rev and TECHNICALLY Nidus and Nekros, tho those 2 are due to minor bugs and numbers balance) is that they have to STOP PLAYING to refresh that immortality INSTEAD of refreshing it by playing (nidus due to how buggy the umbilical cord targeting can be and having no innate range indicator requiring you to ping it while nekros Shadows priority not being by player choice, having retard AI, their hp refresh only happening at the end of the animation if all 7 shadows are up but at the start if one shadow dies which is dumb AND high build cost compared to other DR sources; so those 2 only count on technicality of ui and game speed from times past).

Hell prime example, Novas new augment. For people that want to be super safe, they keep going with the 1 augment, but if you like open maps or simply want a smoother game loop quality you go with the new one and she will remain on her 16-25k EHP, no arbitrary timer and the best part is (unlike e.g. Nekros where he has to build strength which doesnt help the rest of his kit much  or Chroma who for similar results needs to give up benefits to allies unless they keep hugging him) her defenses scale of what you would already build on her for maximum ally support.

And to make Valkyr 4 not be "recast after every room" (or every 2-3 rooms if you want to go with the energy pad argument), you need to gut range thus how many allies (and enemies) you catch with warcry and cc cone from paralysis.

P.S. Her melee stick usage is already as close as it gets to perfect with the clause of "for some reason you dont want to play Rhino, Nezha or Inaros to not just boost damage with high DR but also be cc immune and Saryn is too squish/high risk for you with how many new enemies just ignore cc", the "synergize issues" of her kit are that her 4 got gutted and 2 armor buff doesnt apply to damage absorb pool of 4 and that her 1 pull strengths are reverse, throwing enemies far behind due to momentum they get while her own pull to things ends 2/5ths the range in towars the point cast.

[Synpai]

19 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Banshee, Chroma, Mirage, Harrow, and Rhino to name a few. Warframes who depend almost entirely on boosting weapons for their damage output. 

I don't feel that all these remotely fit the same "Weapon master" category, primarily because each of the listed frames have a utility beyond any single weapon category. 

Bashee: Depending on where abilities target sonar damage will apply, equally not just for her (Support); it can be recast as many times as you have energy (scaling intrinsic to kit); equally she can CC/Damage rooms worth of enemies.

Chroma: Elemental Ward applies to everyone (Typically means a lot more health for everyone; support), Vex Armor applies to everyone in range (support); Enemies that die around pelt drop double credits. It's a bit annoying to have to make mod builds specifically when playing Chroma, but not having to have Serration and the like is also nice.

 

Not saying that the frames are perfect as they are ability wise, but they all have scaling, support, or unique utility in their own right (Mirage is the closest to fitting in a category with Valkyr, but even then she can still CC or support (augment)). There's a lot of discussion that can't really happen until Melee 3.0 sadly, but more damage is basically never something that can't be used, Attack Speed is a bit different, especially when you consider the effective range and the fact that you'd be then competing with others to keep the buff.

21 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Short of making Hysteria into more of a 100% uptime ability the way it used to be (which is a solution I really don't like at all), I don't see a lot that could be done to make her less weapon dependent without drastically changing her identity and her kit. 

See Above. The point of this post is to give her more utility in her kit and more roles via augments.

Even without the current blood rush and combo counter shenanigans she'd have:

• CC and territory control in her 1, making up for the short range of weapons with the pull && more long range traditional control with the augment && even more with claws.
• Support options for her teammates; giving them more EFHP due to sharing a percentage of HER armor instead of raising theirs by a percentage and be able to  make use of eternal war even if she doesn't get the kills (teamwork).
• Massive damage with any melee due to paralysis augment causing stealth multipliers.
• More incentive to use Hysteria and more options to use it as it's linked to her passive (but not invulnerability, in fact she'd have a greater risk of failure as you put it)

I'd like to know hat you think about the core of the post more so than the weapon master or not weapon master debate 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Synpai

[Kherae]

i'll be honest, I don't like most of your suggestions, OP. as she is, her 1 is useful for mobility, and aimable ranged single target crowd control. her 2 lets her and her allies attack enemies faster while greatly increasing survivability, both from increasing armor (sharing hers would be a nice change) and from the slow. her 3...yeah it needs some work, but it's still useful. opening enemies up to finishers isn't exactly trivial. Her 4 is a difficult beast to balance, i'll agree, but I wouldn't change it terribly much. What I saw about taking stored damage as the drain rate increases...not too far off, however I wouldn't have it be flat amounts. I'd have it be a percentage of the stored damage, instead. Maybe 20% of drain percentage (IE, at 100%, take 20% of stored per second, detracting from storage for the amount dealt)

Edited January 26, 2019 by Kherae

[Gurpgork]

On 2019-01-25 at 9:27 AM, Synpai said:

I'd like to know hat you think about the core of the post more so than the weapon master or not weapon master debate

Fair enough. 

So. 

Provocate 

While I think that Rip Line can be salvaged and doesn’t necessarily need replacing to make it good, this is actually a pretty good replacement idea. The shocking is a good and thematic Corpus reference, and the random passive Rip Lining can be activated reliably. 

I personally would update Rip Line to be complimentary to parkour 2.0 instead of replacing it, but if it was going to be replaced, this is a good idea for a replacement. 

Warcry

Giving allies an armor boost based on Valkyr’s armor is a very good and helpful change. However, I don’t see the ability to recast the ability being especially useful if you’re moving the slow to Paralysis. With a Warcry without a slow, the only reason you’d ever want to recast it is if you missed an ally with it. 

Maybe it would make Eternal War feel a little less necessary, but it’s really expensive for having refreshing the duration be the only real benefit to Valkyr herself. 

Paralysis

Using shields as a resource and having some benefit to taking damage are both ideas I really like. 

On the other hand, I like the current Prolonged Paralysis much more than your proposed change to it. Grouping up enemies on demand is such a strong effect for melee play. 

Hysteria

Perfect. 10/10. Absolutely nailed it. 

[Synpai]

21 hours ago, Kherae said:

'll be honest, I don't like most of your suggestions, OP. as she is, her 1 is useful for mobility, and aimable ranged single target crowd control. her 2 lets her and her allies attack enemies faster while greatly increasing survivability, both from increasing armor (sharing hers would be a nice change) and from the slow. her 3...yeah it needs some work, but it's still useful. opening enemies up to finishers isn't exactly trivial. Her 4 is a difficult beast to balance, i'll agree, but I wouldn't change it terribly much.

No worries, few people do :P.However, I'm not seeing what you don't like...I only see things that people know for the most part know

Considering the one I suggested improves movement speed (mobility) and CCs multiple enemies on top of still maintaining the original cast I don't see where you're having qualms here, other than the idea that it "works" so there's no need to improve upon or fix it.

 

22 hours ago, Kherae said:

What I saw about taking stored damage as the drain rate increases...not too far off, however I wouldn't have it be flat amounts. I'd have it be a percentage of the stored damage, instead. Maybe 20% of drain percentage (IE, at 100%, take 20% of stored per second, detracting from storage for the amount dealt)

The reason I didn't make it a percentage is because she should be tanky (period). Taking % of stored damage means that you'll very easily not be able to even survive in Hysteria when enemies scale wildly in damage. Because even 5% of too much damage, is still a lotta damage. Equally But notably such is hard to know for certain without testing.


 

 

14 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Provocate 

While I think that Rip Line can be salvaged and doesn’t necessarily need replacing to make it good, this is actually a pretty good replacement idea. The shocking is a good and thematic Corpus reference, and the random passive Rip Lining can be activated reliably. 

I personally would update Rip Line to be complimentary to parkour 2.0 instead of replacing it, but if it was going to be replaced, this is a good idea for a replacement. 

Yeah considering many people are fond of it I changed from a full replacement a while ago; but with the pull mechanic it seemed better to send Valkyr to the target (Even if enemy) so that it wouldn't rely on nonsense ragdoll that sometimes sends enemies all over the place on top of forcing a chance to proc the group pull:

On 2018-10-28 at 9:00 PM, Synpai said:

If Valkyr recasts over the duration, Provacate performs a Ripline with a chance to shock and pull nearby enemies

 

However, I've been giving reconsideration to change it to something like this:

If Valkyr recasts over the duration, Provacate performs a Ripline Roll that causes her to furiously impact to target location with a chance to shock and pull nearby enemies. After impact, Valkyr bounces off and rolls in the air (as if under the effects of aim glide). When "aim glide" duration end or melee occurs, Valkyr stops rolling.

Would still keep the reduced costs and increased damage on recasts, but I feel.....this could be crazy fun and powerful as well as give a reason to keep her original Swing Line augment. Full on Sonic build lol would allow for some hilarious maneuverability.

14 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Warcry

Giving allies an armor boost based on Valkyr’s armor is a very good and helpful change. However, I don’t see the ability to recast the ability being especially useful if you’re moving the slow to Paralysis. With a Warcry without a slow, the only reason you’d ever want to recast it is if you missed an ally with it. 

The recast was indeed intended to remedy the "jump off a cliff because I missed someone"; however it may be better to make Warcry similar to Chroma's Elemental Ward and similarly Eternal War like Everlasting Ward. Such that, Valkyr always gets duration refunded on melee kills innate, but the augment would allow for her allies to assist in the duration upkeep and maintain the ability out of her radius.

 

14 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Paralysis

Using shields as a resource and having some benefit to taking damage are both ideas I really like. 

On the other hand, I like the current Prolonged Paralysis much more than your proposed change to it. Grouping up enemies on demand is such a strong effect for melee play. 

Her 1 provides that utility. I do believe pulls like that are considered hard CC where the stasis is a soft CC. Meaning, the pull from her 1 would override the prolonged Paralysis (the enemies would be frozen, but pulled). I could be wrong though. I do know the current augment had use with ground attack obex and the like, but the obex augment is super silly considering the Sobek and Jat Kitag merely require kills period......

Though there's room to argue the pulses could pull as the current augment does, but it seems a bit redundant with the Exodia Hunt effect on her 1. Could move that utility off the 1 if I went the route of the Ripline Roll

 

Thoughts?

[Kherae]

I like the ripclaw's current functionality for its uniqueness.Find me another case that functions like that, letting you pull yourself to another location, or pull an enemy or ally to you. All on one frame.

As for the hysteria thing...yes, 5% of too much damage is too much damage. that's the whole point of such a change. She's insanely tanky due to armor, but hysteria lets her completely ignore a very, very large amount of damage provided she manages to get out of enemy line of sight before it runs out. That is one of my main gripes with it, it being too safe. I feel they should remove -that- mechanic (taking the damage if, and only if, enemies are in range when hysteria ends) and instead just have her steadily start to take some of that stored damage, so that she can't face-tank literally an entire super high level map for a long while and just discard the damage like it was never there. Plus, since the damage stored is affected by armor on release, it actually gives reason to build armor for a hysteria build, instead of just building max efficiency and overloading on strength.

Short version: Make waived damage steadily catch up to you, making lifesteal and armor more useful, and making hysteria less overpowered. Remove the "if out of line of sight, damage vanishes" part, as it's annoyingly overpowered.

I like Valkyr's kit, and like how tanky she is. I don't like invulnerability that trivializes content. I also don't like making major sweeping changes. Tiny tweaks are where it's at.

[Andele3025]

6 hours ago, Kherae said:

I like the ripclaw's current functionality for its uniqueness.Find me another case that functions like that, letting you pull yourself to another location, or pull an enemy or ally to you. All on one frame.

As for the hysteria thing...yes, 5% of too much damage is too much damage. that's the whole point of such a change. She's insanely tanky due to armor, but hysteria lets her completely ignore a very, very large amount of damage provided she manages to get out of enemy line of sight before it runs out. That is one of my main gripes with it, it being too safe. I feel they should remove -that- mechanic (taking the damage if, and only if, enemies are in range when hysteria ends) and instead just have her steadily start to take some of that stored damage, so that she can't face-tank literally an entire super high level map for a long while and just discard the damage like it was never there. Plus, since the damage stored is affected by armor on release, it actually gives reason to build armor for a hysteria build, instead of just building max efficiency and overloading on strength.

Short version: Make waived damage steadily catch up to you, making lifesteal and armor more useful, and making hysteria less overpowered. Remove the "if out of line of sight, damage vanishes" part, as it's annoyingly overpowered.

I like Valkyr's kit, and like how tanky she is. I don't like invulnerability that trivializes content. I also don't like making major sweeping changes. Tiny tweaks are where it's at.

Invul isnt op nor does it trivialize content since for the vast majority of fights where it could/would be good she cant use it (energy drain, fight not designed for melee, enemy literally not taking any weapon damage type, etc). Tho i do agree that the LOS mechanic needs to go, in fact the entire energy ramp and aoe check "this is invult but its actually a 94% DR skill that can kill you due to burst instead of just being 95% that also ramps energy cost" needs to go. Just make Valkyr store 100% instead of 30% damage, make it deal 100% of it when it ends as true damage (instead of impact) but let her lifesteal it away while in hysteria. Going from "take 3~5.6% of enemy damage you would have taken" to "take all of it, but playing around her 4 doesnt require you to interrupt your game loop to hide somewhere to toggle it off and on every other room". Or even simpler, making her 4 a 90% DR with full rhino/nezha/oberon carpet/titania 1/inaros augment status immunity+Claws for 2.5 energy a second instead of invul which in terms of raw math would actually even be a nerf if you always deactivated it with enemies in sight (75% or 25% of 30% damage taken), but would let the warcry armor and lifesteal actually do things.

[DerGreif2]

Its a old post but as a Kitty main I would love to see some changes. Love also that she get benefits for using claw weapons. That would really be great. Hope DE sees this post T.T

[Synpai]

On 2019-01-29 at 4:37 PM, Kherae said:

I like Valkyr's kit, and like how tanky she is. I don't like invulnerability that trivializes content. I also don't like making major sweeping changes. Tiny tweaks are where it's at.

Again I absolutely love valkyr, but changes are needed, I'm not fond of tiny tweaks, they tend to leave much to be desired at the end of the day for me. I do understand the appeal and value to tweaks though, just exactly what I want to avoid in this post. At the end of the day I think her problems are highlighted and I believe I mentioned minimal changes for each ability. I understand that current ripline may be unique....but I'd say it's usefulness in terms of gameplay is pretty lacking mobility aside. Pulling allies or enemies is shadowed by the pace of the game and alternative methods IMO.

I just don't want the current feel of her and Titania where you have 4 abilities that don't really feel like they're apart of a singular kit. I.e: Lack impactful synergies or interactions

Anywho, agreed that invulnerability and LOS trivializes content; however my concern for % damage is lack of reaction on player side, like the health drain could continue to increase as a preference.

Reason being is one second you're losing 20 health per second then a level 100+ nullifier,  Hyeka, etc master shoots you as the tick is about to occur and you're dead. I'm all for adding risk, but the idea is for it to be both: something a player can reasonably manage and have the ability to react to. Which I mentioned the % could work especially with such a safety net passive, but I plea to test before making concrete decisions

 

6 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

Its a old post but as a Kitty main I would love to see some changes. Love also that she get benefits for using claw weapons. That would really be great. Hope DE sees this post T.T

To be fair I have another post that's survived a year XD I think keeping up the discussion is at least helpful as we wait

[CometFireClaw]

what i saw from melee 2.9 looked great. i cant wait to see more of this "devil trigger" mode and how/if gonna affect her 4.

 

 

On 2019-01-24 at 12:27 PM, Synpai said:

 

Interesting, but I had the idea of tethering enemies behind for someone like Khora with her ensnare, pulling enemies behind her for various buffs depending on stance.

I think I'm leaning more toward Ripline turning into a Sonic dash of sorts when recast over the ability duration...where she turns into a "claw ball" and "rolls" at the target location, damaging and bouncing off before procing aimglide slow down so that you can just claw pinball all over the place. So it would basically still serve the same purpose as the current ripline. The pull would just function more like Exodia Hunt which is miles better and not even restricted to line of sight. 

this is even BETTER !

what do this think about adding particle effect to it too... like a cone/Cloak of slashing energy engulfing her as she zipps/sonics through enemies 

then as you hit a wall you can combo/recast and zooming through rooms hitting/slashing mobs as you aim for the next wall. you do a short animation where you kick off the wall leaving a crazy anime wave as you dash away from the wall into combat.

Edited February 23, 2019 by CometFireClaw
even better ideals

[CometFireClaw]

also can we have power strength and/or reach  make your hysteria claws longer..... is that a thing.

[CometFireClaw]

On 2019-01-29 at 10:32 PM, Andele3025 said:

Invul isnt op nor does it trivialize content since for the vast majority of fights where it could/would be good she cant use it (energy drain, fight not designed for melee, enemy literally not taking any weapon damage type, etc). Tho i do agree that the LOS mechanic needs to go, in fact the entire energy ramp and aoe check "this is invult but its actually a 94% DR skill that can kill you due to burst instead of just being 95% that also ramps energy cost" needs to go. Just make Valkyr store 100% instead of 30% damage, make it deal 100% of it when it ends as true damage (instead of impact) but let her lifesteal it away while in hysteria. Going from "take 3~5.6% of enemy damage you would have taken" to "take all of it, but playing around her 4 doesnt require you to interrupt your game loop to hide somewhere to toggle it off and on every other room". Or even simpler, making her 4 a 90% DR with full rhino/nezha/oberon carpet/titania 1/inaros augment status immunity+Claws for 2.5 energy a second instead of invul which in terms of raw math would actually even be a nerf if you always deactivated it with enemies in sight (75% or 25% of 30% damage taken), but would let the warcry armor and lifesteal actually do things.

like NYX's 4 , where the more DMG she absorbs ,the more she puts in the final AOE...... interesting

so if we applied this to valk it would be she get maybe a 95% armor buff and incoming damage is pooled together making her claw hit harder and harder. 

it would get around the "push 1 button a win" thing DE tends to avoid.

sidenote you could make this an argument and call it [Juggernaut]

[Andele3025]

1 hour ago, CometFireClaw said:

like NYX's 4 , where the more DMG she absorbs ,the more she puts in the final AOE...... interesting

so if we applied this to valk it would be she get maybe a 95% armor buff and incoming damage is pooled together making her claw hit harder and harder. 

it would get around the "push 1 button a win" thing DE tends to avoid.

sidenote you could make this an argument and call it [Juggernaut]

Nope, opposite, Nyx (when not built for assimilate) is rewarded with damage in exchange of energy while invul, Valkyr should be "rewarded" for lifestealing away damage she took/a high energy drain be a punishment for not removing the damage she took (not via toggling off/on while jumping or in a corner away from enemies thus interruption gameplay flow, but instead by attacking/lifesteal). In terms of damage output zerk kitty is good, hell her core kit goals are good too, its just little things breaking game flow (essentially same issue nezha had pre rework).

[Synpai]

On 2019-02-23 at 1:20 AM, CometFireClaw said:

what i saw from melee 2.9 looked great. i cant wait to see more of this "devil trigger" mode and how/if gonna affect her 4.

 

 

this is even BETTER !

what do this think about adding particle effect to it too... like a cone/Cloak of slashing energy engulfing her as she zipps/sonics through enemies 

then as you hit a wall you can combo/recast and zooming through rooms hitting/slashing mobs as you aim for the next wall. you do a short animation where you kick off the wall leaving a crazy anime wave as you dash away from the wall into combat.

I agree! Melee 2.9 is very snazzy, just waiting to see the full combo overhaul (And potential channel removal) from Melee 3.0 since that's where the meat of the ability is.


The particles seem super sick 😄

 

 

On 2019-02-23 at 1:26 AM, CometFireClaw said:

also can we have power strength and/or reach  make your hysteria claws longer..... is that a thing.

Hysteria is affected by range when modding, although the claws themselves don't grow, would probably be not worth the effort to have it do so.


 

[Andele3025]

25 minutes ago, Synpai said:

Hysteria is affected by range when modding, although the claws themselves don't grow, would probably be not worth the effort to have it do so.

Nothing in hysteria is effected by range (and that should actually stay that way to be in line with other exalted weapon skills (regulators excluded as they arent really "weapon" as much as "modded aimbot")

Edited April 15, 2019 by Andele3025

[000l000]

Not much fan of some ideas there. For now Hysteria is really powerful since being invulnerable is a top notch status, it's not meant to be permanent nor to have a cheap cost for obvious reasons - health cost included.

I'm fine with the slow aura on her 2nd as it is cause this power is a buff/debuff one and is used once to apply everything it has to apply - nothing else. I wouldn't rely upon a toggle with random activation for my slow aura.

The way you reworked her 3rd doesn't work since you miss a point here. The way her 3rd works synergizes well with Hysteria since she can get shield back while being invulnerable. The same way your version wouldn't work since she couldn't lose her shield while being invulnerable.

Tbh Valkyr kit synergizes quite well especially her 2nd and 3rd augment mods. The only thing she really needs is a viable 1st skill cause atm it's a terrible power, barely useful as a traveling skill and completely worthless (even counterproductive) as a combat skill.

For my part i'd change two or three things from her current kit:

First i'd change slightly her passive making her immune to grab. Better recovery is fine but grab don't care about that and being immune to such attacks would help her way better. So 50% less recovery time and immunity to grab.

Second i'd change her first power too for obvious reasons but wouldn't add another active buff, Chroma already works that way and that's really poor design, really boring too. I really like the idea of a traveling skill but with a way better combat usefulness. Instead of a zipline she could have quite a similar power but only making her charge/dash to an enemy or at distance to help her moving faster. I'd change its augment too, she'd execute a circular strike upon landing into an enemy dealing slash damages with status chance (more status per mod point).

Finally i'd change her 4th augment, since she could definitely use her new 1st to charge anything, something that should have been part of her own kit from the start and not through any augment. Instead of that i'd make her cast Hysteria immediatly upon using her 1st skill, thus bypassing any casting animation and being invulnerable just when the fight begins. It could make a short use of Hysteria more viable. Casting her 4th again will still bring her back from Hysteria though.

Tbh Valkyr isn't in such a bad spot and i don't think that a total rework would be taken seriously by anyone at DE, but some slight tweaks would be a way better approach since her design synergizes well atm.

Edited April 15, 2019 by 000l000