Eidolon Hunts: Oberon VS Harrow - Who is the better choice?

[thegreatAce21]

In the hundreds of eidolon you killed I think you'll prefer more harrow cause less to no energy pizza consumption! 

[spirit_of_76]

2 hours ago, Erytroxylin said:

That's kinda risky tho. If you're running enough power strength for his renewal to replace Trinity, then if anyone in group is running CP you're gonna strip all the armor and make everyone have the wrong damage type and actually make it worse

no Oberon does a % armor strip after CP they do not stack additively but multiplicatively this is why Oberon does not use CP on any sane build as it fewer benefits compared to growing power/steel charge (+25%power strength on demand or +4 more drain.) and requires +1 forma 

Edited October 29, 2018 by spirit_of_76

[spirit_of_76]

2 hours ago, (PS4)HolyApplebutter said:

If you're really concerned about that armor why not use Shattering Impact on a Sarpa instead?  Don't know why else you would ever want or need a melee weapon during hunts.

I don't know if how or if Oberons 2&4 combo effects eidolons.  

[Erytroxylin]

2 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

no Oberon does a % armor strip after CP they do not stack additively but multiplicatively this is why Oberon does not use CP on any sane build as it provides little benefit.   

Are you sure? If so, that's nice to know. But how does it interact with shattering impact? Additive or multiplicative? I know it stacks additively with itself because I use it to punt Lephantis/Plague Hemo down to 0 armor with two casts.

[ljmadruga]

I see your petty squabbles between Harrow and Oberon while I completely nullify the magnetic waves from the eidolon while dealing more effective damage (by preventing the healing in the final stage) as Limbo.

[spirit_of_76]

1 minute ago, Erytroxylin said:

Are you sure? If so, that's nice to know. But how does it interact with shattering impact? Additive or multiplicative? I know it stacks additively with itself because I use it to punt Lephantis/Plague Hemo down to 0 armor with two casts.

for shattering it is nither,  shattering reduces base armor by 6 per hit (sarpa does 5 hits per charge attack so -30 base armor) Oberon reduces base armor by x% of max depending on power strength (normally around 55%-100) adding with himself.  I would have to do tests to find the true relation as Oberon is normally used instead of not with shattering sarpa.

[Duality52]

7 hours ago, Zeclem said:

cus i can do that with vazarin or trin with less button presses and coordination already. 

But can Trinity protect anyone from the Enegy Spikes procs? Can she reliably supply everyone with energy without using any energy pizzas or Zenurik? Also, using EV on the Vomvalysts won't work once they go into their spectral states (they don't release the stored energy unlike any other enemies when they die while EVed).

Limbo's Rift does more than just ignoring damage; it restores energy too. Combined with Zenurik, you get more than 2 energy/s. This feels more manageable than just spamming pizzas.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Duality52

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 5 heures, (PS4)HolyApplebutter a dit :

If you're really concerned about that armor why not use Shattering Impact on a Sarpa instead?  Don't know why else you would ever want or need a melee weapon during hunts.

Paracesis is a thing for the final phase if you're into that 😄

Il y a 2 heures, spirit_of_76 a dit :

I don't know if how or if Oberons 2&4 combo effects eidolons.  

It does. 

Il y a 2 heures, Erytroxylin a dit :

Are you sure? If so, that's nice to know. But how does it interact with shattering impact? Additive or multiplicative? I know it stacks additively with itself because I use it to punt Lephantis/Plague Hemo down to 0 armor with two casts.

It stacks additively with itself and multiplicatively with everything else. 

 

On topic I'd say for organised hunds I'd rate Harrow higher than Oberon simply because it has less chances of #*!%ing up. 

Oberon is neat because it can act as pocket buffer and healer as well tho, which means it's great for 2/3x3 on non minmaxed comps. 

[(PSN)Dublincore]

8 hours ago, Xardis said:

.If you see a Harrow jumping into the lake, either something has gone wrong... or he got a but that prevents any abilitiest to be casted.

Lol man, i don't even recall as Harrow the tons of swimming due to bugs. At least one every capture, lately.

Anyway, here's my 2 cents: Harrow is way better for all the reasons already written by others. You can protect your team even from Gantu lasers, and because you need pretty much only Covenant you cancellare mod it for more tankiness than Oberon.

[spirit_of_76]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Dublincore said:

Anyway, here's my 2 cents: Harrow is way better for all the reasons already written by others. You can protect your team even from Gantu lasers, and because you need pretty much only Covenant you cancellare mod it for more tankiness than Oberon.

what a bout the Hydrolyst mag bubbles.  this is where I think that Oberon shines

[SpiderMonkeylord]

So, I just tested to make sure nothing had changed recently, because some of the posts here differed from my experience: I can confirm that Oberon's hallowed+reckoning armor stripping combines *additively* with a single corrosive projection with no coaction drift: any armor stripping rating greater than 70% (achieved with anything over 233% power strength) fully strips armor from targets in a single cast. This does not work on eidolons, nor do multiple casts strip eidolon armor (I thought maybe it worked multiplicatively for eidolons and that's why people thought that's how it worked, but it has no effect). Neither a single nor multiple casts has any effect on the damage done to synovias. It's possible that it works on the final stage; I forgot to test that.

Tested solo on PC as host, with matchmaking set to friends only, additive armor stripping behavior tested in the simulacrum and then in a grineer interception arbitration. Tested the eidolon armor stripping interaction with Teralyst (synovia only) still solo but with matchmaking still set to friends only.

No opinion on original question, I only run eidolons very casually either solo or with friends, and of the two, have only ever used Oberon. I can say that as a person who is still pretty fresh to eidolons in comparison to many people, with Oberon (+ madurai operator) a tridolon capture is pretty straightforward solo, but obviously a bit slower than with a decent team; I have not completed a 2x3 solo yet, only a 1x3 followed by another Teralyst and Gantulyst.

[(PSN)Dublincore]

2 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

what a bout the Hydrolyst mag bubbles.  this is where I think that Oberon shines

It depends. With a proper squad i almost never have the bubble problem, but maybe you're right in case of a longer capture and less expert group, i think. Yet still there's the energy spike, but anyway no one stops you from using Brob, if you're more comfortable 😉

[JariWeis]

 

Quote

"I don't really get it, Harrow makes you immune but hey you'll be in operator anyway for that void strike buff which you're not getting on Harrow because you're too busy jumping in water than actually contributing."

This is not the point. The immunization doesn't only apply to the damage dealt by the waves, but the most important aspect is that you are immune to THE MAGNETIC PROCS.

Yes, Oberon does this too, in a relatively small AoE instead of a 50m Radius like Harrow does.

Harrow immunizes you to both damage and procs in Affinity Radius, Oberon only protects from procs and only does so in a smaller AoE.

Quote

" I also know the whole 'But did you know you can have Arcane nullifiers you can make yourself 100% immune rofl' "

This isn't how chance calculation works. The chance of triggering them is not additive, they're seperate instances. It's a 96% chance to proc either one of the Nullifiers. ALMOST immunizing, but not entirely. Plus you already said yourself that these are not an ideal option, since you're better off running DPS- or eHP-boosting Arcanes. After Erytroxylin's reply to my comment I double checked the information, and PASSIVE Arcanes are indeed additive. This point is valid.

Quote

"If someone says "but crit buff" just do yourself a favour and walk out because if you're not already 1 shotting limbs without adarza kavat, then you should all just run adarza's because omg they offer 60% buff ... wait for it ... EACH that's 60 x 4 = 240% possible crit buff (more like a 80~90% ish uptime on a 60%)"

I'm sorry, what? The crit buff is THE reason why Harrow is 100% superior to Oberon.

One-shotting the limbs is easy, even without an Adarza. But the argument you're making of "Just take an Adarza" is preposterous. To balance out you not being able to one-shot a limb, you're advocating using an RNG-based event with a cooldown that's longer than it usually takes to take down the shields?

Even if you leave the spotty nature of the buff out of the equation, IT DOESN'T STACK - further nullifying your weak argument.

Furthermore, you don't use the Harrow buff FOR THE LIMBS. You use it for the killshot.

Which brings me to:

Quote

"(...) you're too busy jumping in water than actually contributing."

Your task is Shield DPS, nullifying procs and buffing. That's your CONTRIBUTION.

Harrow provides +200% Crit Chance on Headshots, which the killshot is always going to be.

For the Lanka: 112.5% Crit Chance with Point Strike and Max Zoom, 4.4x Crit Multiplier with Vital Sense > 312.5% with Harrow buff.

Total Crit Multiplier = Crit Level × (Crit Multiplier − 1) + 1
Total Crit Multiplier = 4 * (4.4 - 1) + 1 = 14.6 > Your entire base shot (incl. Elementals) will get a 14.6x Damage Multiplication.

For the Rubico: 95% Crit Chance with Point Strike, 8.1x Crit Multiplier with Vital Sense and Max Zoom > 295% with Harrow buff.
Total Crit Multiplier = 3 * (8.1 - 1) + 1 = 22.3 > Your entire base shot (incl. Elementals) will get a 22.3x Damage Multiplication.
 

Even with a max Power Strength Smite Infusion Oberon, you are not going to be anywhere NEAR those numbers.

If you fail to see why people prefer Harrow when he is better at:

1. Immunizing procs
2. Negating damage
3. Buffing Damage

And Trinity is better than Oberon at:

1. Healing Teammates
2. Healing Lures
3. Giving damage reduction outside of Harrow Ults

Then it's not up to us to prove you wrong, but rather up to you to re-evaluate why you're taking a frame to the Eidolons.

Edited October 29, 2018 by JariWeis
Rectification of false information.

[Erytroxylin]

19 minutes ago, JariWeis said:

The chance of triggering them is not additive, they're seperate instances. It's a 96% chance to proc either one of the Nullifiers.

Actually they are additive for the proc defense arcanes. If you don't believe me, equip them and go stand in water all night. You'll never get a single mag proc. 

This is what many of us equip to do solo tridolons.

[wtflag]

Oberon prime is dirt cheap. Harrow farming makes me want to puke. So there is no way people choose Harrow because he is easier to acquire.

The reason Harrow is preferred is because the best defence is offence, most people have arcane null and Edgelord is way cooler than Goat-guy.

Now if oberon had four legs instead he will immediately be the number one coolest warframe. Unfortunately we will never see that due to technical limitations. 

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

If you have done a solo trido capture, you realize that mag procs are no big issue and are overcome by using energy pads here and there. 

But if you go pub and end up in a team of only two, you really appreciate a Harrow by your side.

As for full prearranged teams, either or I would say, just down to each teams preference.

[Xerenova]

Quote

Who is the better choice?

The one you think it's the better choice. Doesn't matter who's the better frame because everyone have their own preference. Frame A might be better than frame B but that doesn't mean everyone will like A. Not everyone are minmaxer and they choose the kit that suits them.

[Drftingcloud]

Harrow is better at doing 2 things.

1. Magnetic proc and damage mitigation

2. 200% crit chance buff when shooting eidolon head ain't no joke

 

Oberon is worse at 2 things, but can do 3 things.

1. Heal lures, badly. Heal team mates, based on ability range and not affinity range.

2. Magnetic proc mitigation, but not damage mitigation on that aoe. Also based on ability range, not affinity range. Can't use Narrow Minded.

3. 100% Radiation damage buff for team mates on targeted cast with his 1 augment.

[spirit_of_76]

11 minutes ago, Drftingcloud said:

Heal lures, badly. Heal team mates, based on ability range and not affinity range.

 the initial cast is range based after that it has infinite range.  making it a sidegrade to trin when in a normal mission (infinite duration and range after the first cast but it is a hot has less DR) also instant revive for less experienced teams 

16 minutes ago, Drftingcloud said:

Magnetic proc mitigation, but not damage mitigation on that aoe. Also based on ability range, not affinity range. Can't use Narrow Minded.

base primed continuity is more than enough duration, can provide protection for mag procs during the damage phases (useful for the Hydrolyst fight) 

[(XBOX)Shad0wfire99]

10 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

what a bout the Hydrolyst mag bubbles.  this is where I think that Oberon shines

Don't stand in them and still use Harrow.

[Eisdschungel]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Joe_Barbarian:

 just do yourself a favour and walk out because if you're not already 1 shotting limbs without adarza kavat, then you should all just run adarza's because omg they offer 60% buff ... wait for it ... EACH that's 60 x 4 = 240% possible crit buff (more like a 80~90% ish uptime on a 60%)

Cats Eye from multiple Adarzas do not Stack btw. Having more than 1 kavat just raises the uptime

Source: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Cat's_Eye and own experience (my rubico not red critting as much as it should if they stack)

[kikasnoob]

neither is better! in a pre made tricap squad. volt shield, one shot eidolon shield, chroma one shot limb,horrow/ober buff then trin buff,,,rinse and repeat for the rest of the night,

the most difficult thing about eidolon hunts is finding competent hunters.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by kikasnoob

[Law95]

I would say Harrow coz well immune to all damage plus that crit buff. A good Harrow player would time his 4th just right. When I play as Harrow, I would use his 4th when the eidolon is just about to use his mag proc wave thing and the crit buff would last until my teammate or me one shot another limb (we have max VS volt of course) and repeat. When the eido is whining on the ground, you can also use your 4th just at the right time for his crit buff when the eido stands up again for another 1 to 3 shot kill. The crit buff is more reliable than adarza imo coz it doesn't always proc and also the cat can die easily. So yes, personally I think Harrow is a better frame for eido hunt. To me, Harrow is all about timing. 

I have also played as and also with Oberon for eido hunt plenty of times as well. Yes I agree his phoenix renewal is handy and all but everyone who gets downed just instant revive anyway as to not trouble other players and not like ppl who knows how to do eido hunt get downed so much until they run out of revives anyway. It's handy, but not needed. As for his magic anti mag proc carpet, I find it a hassle to always have to run and look for one to stand on it and go to operator mode before the eidolon uses his mag wave thing. There's too many steps. I mean, which is easier? Doing that or just pop Harrow's 4th and just stand there? It's obvious which is the better and easier method.

[Zi-Sui]

One guy with Sarpa Shattering Impact is superior to 3x Corrosive Projection because then you can fill the aura slot with damage boost and armor will get reduced anyways. Basics.

Harrow has fire rate buff too, I don't think Oberon can speed up the fight. But Oberon is better than Trinity imo since Oberon can both keep the lures alive and negate magnetic proc. I don't know if Harrow's covenant crit buff applies to operator amp, am not experienced enough to notice, but I don't see a reason to bring Harrow over a second Rhino if it doesn't. But yeah, if you got a good Ivara you shouldn't need a second Rhino, might as well be another Volt.

Edit: just took the time to read the topic and yeah Harrow does have that 200% cc headshot buff. But you probably don't need it if you have Ivara and Limbo on squad, or just a very good Ivara. I still don't know of Phoenix Revival works on lures, didn't see anyone mention that.

Edited October 30, 2018 by GOOFBALL1

[Omnijack]

Came to shill limbo, but it seems my limbros have already come and made our position clear. Cataclysm fo' life.