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Why are new heavy blades always the best in everything?


EpicBred
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best damage, reach, crit chance/damage, status chance, and usually good attack speed.

First war, then galatine prime and the gram prime (although that ones a bit slower). They are statwise always simply the best weapon at the time they come out. look at daggers ...

Why do heavy blades excel in everything, and daggers are the exact opposite?

Its a good example of DEs bad balancing and missed opportunities. They could have made every melee weapon class special and unique, not only in their movement, but also their stats. have one excel in speed, the other in damage, another one in CHANNELING (the only opportunity to make a slow attack speed playstyle viable ...), but no. Its more like a tier list, with heavy blades on top, and dual daggers at the bottom.

And now with the new melee system, they even unify how the different weapons play! same combo input and utility on all of them. I just cant understand why they do it.

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1- No way the heavy blades have better reach than polearms and whips.

2- Zaws are the best weapons in the game.

3- There's a lack of status heavy blades, and Condition Overload is the best build in the melee category. Dual swords and Polearms still are the best because of this.

4- Melee 3.0 is coming, so everything we know about melee 2.0 can change.

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because of Berserker mod, that basically screwed the whole balancing of 'heavy' blades. I'd say they should get higher dmg, a lot less attack speed and unability to use the mod 

also it's because it might increase says for PA, since if they weapons are good then it'll drive sales, especially since chorma isn't that popular and they didn't give him the rework people wanted, so the OPness of the weapons is balancing that out 

I doubt they'll change heavy weapons in the rework though, since they're very popular, and any major change can spark an uproar 

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there's no denying DE seem to play favourites with heavy blades, now I love me some Greatswords (not like super-oversized Monhun/Final Fantasy type swords, ones that are still feasible to be wielded by someone human-sized) but evn I'm starting to get less enthusiastic with each Heavy Blade announcement. it's not so must the Heavy Blades being better, they still have less reach than Polearms and can be slower, plus not everyone likes the stances; it's more other weapon classes being weaker because they don't have the attention. Daggers should by rights be faster than everything except hand to hand weapon types (Sparring, Gauntlets and Claws.), and are only redeemed by Covert Lethality. Dual daggers though.. oof.

there are still plenty of other strong weapon types: Nikanas, polearms and whips can still be top-tier, it's just some weapons got way more love than others. hopefully Melee 3.0 will bring something unique to each weapon type.

 

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il y a 6 minutes, -SDM-NerevarCM a dit :

3- There's a lack of status heavy blades, and Condition Overload is the best build in the melee category. DUAL SWORDS and Polearms still are the best because of this.

choofed.gif

Joke aside, I think DE release a bunch of heavy blades because peoples actually like them. Heavy Blades are one of the most played category and by this, they know it would be a good choice to release one as the "newest cool weapon". There are only 4 "normal" Heavy Blades (Gram, Scindo, Galatine, Dark Split-Sword) with 3 prime variant of them and other Heavy Blades where introduced as special weapon for a reason :

  • War as the stalker sword for TSD
  • Zenistar for 300 days login milestone
  • Paracesis for Chimera

Also, Tennogen artists (including me) tend to do a lot of Heavy Blade skin, making the release of new weapons in the categorie even better. When the Paracesis was released, the daily sales of my heavy blade skin were about 3x higher for a week.

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It's pretty sad that Heavy Blades are arguably better, in all facets, than Single Sword.  Even Heavy Blade stances are light-years better than the garbage single-sword stances we have.  A Heavy Blade can be wielded in one hand with more efficiency, to greater effect, than any Single Sword can.  

Krokhur?  More like Joke-hur.

Broken War?  More like Broken Bore.  

Nikanas outclass swords in all respects.  Heavy Blades outclass swords in all respects.  Polearms outclass swords in all respects.  Whips outclass swords in all respects.  Daggers outclass swords in most respects.  Rapiers blow Swords out of the water.  There are even Sword and Shields that outclass the best Sword.  Swords might be faster than Hammers, but at that point who really gives a sh*t?  

Single Swords don't have a single worthwhile advantage over any other weapon type.  

 

Edited by AlMcFly
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38 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

there are still plenty of other strong weapon types: Nikanas, polearms and whips can still be top-tier, it's just some weapons got way more love than others. hopefully Melee 3.0 will bring something unique to each weapon type.

You left out the amazing Venka Prime.  Those things are freaking great and have about the same reach as dual-swords with the Vermillion Storm stance.  Extremely underrated IMO by most because they don't have the reach of polearms and whips.  

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1 hour ago, EpicBred said:

best damage, reach, crit chance/damage, status chance, and usually good attack speed.

First war, then galatine prime and the gram prime (although that ones a bit slower). They are statwise always simply the best weapon at the time they come out. look at daggers ...

Why do heavy blades excel in everything, and daggers are the exact opposite?

Its a good example of DEs bad balancing and missed opportunities. They could have made every melee weapon class special and unique, not only in their movement, but also their stats. have one excel in speed, the other in damage, another one in CHANNELING (the only opportunity to make a slow attack speed playstyle viable ...), but no. Its more like a tier list, with heavy blades on top, and dual daggers at the bottom.

And now with the new melee system, they even unify how the different weapons play! same combo input and utility on all of them. I just cant understand why they do it.

Try Silva and Aegis Prime with Final Harbinger moves and slam attacks or a properly made Balla with Stinging Thorn Stance.  

Have you seen what skilled players can do with the Orvius?

There are ridiculously effective alternatives so stop lamenting.

And Big Swords are like big *insert colorful noun your brain comes up with here*

Everyone wants to get their hands on one for one reason or another.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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heavy blades shold have a +25% attack speed bonus cap hell most weapons should have an attack speed limit, when your two handed heavy blades moves faster than a dagger, you know your design team has done #*!%ed up.

with this they would make balance across the board easier, melee combos would be actually usable, melee animations wouldnt be weird af and best of all, each weapon type would feel like an actual diferent weapon type, heavy weapons would actually feel heavy, and fast weapons would feel fast, not as it is currently with every weapon attacking as fast as inhumanly possible. if my warframe has the strengt and dexterity to weild a 2h sword as a dagger, then why dont i have a 50 hits per second dagger?

 

note: a while back i removed most of my attack speed from my melee builds, the change in the feeling of using the weapon its huge, you play a 2h with berzerk and you destroy the feeling of it you might aswell just use a 1h its literally the same feeling... until you remove attack speed, ironically 2 handers feel stronger, as you can now feel the weight in the weapon, instead of flailing around a weightless paper mache sword.

Edited by Lisztomaniac
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1 hour ago, EpicBred said:

best damage, reach, crit chance/damage, status chance, and usually good attack speed.

First war, then galatine prime and the gram prime (although that ones a bit slower). They are statwise always simply the best weapon at the time they come out. look at daggers ...

Why do heavy blades excel in everything, and daggers are the exact opposite?

Its a good example of DEs bad balancing and missed opportunities. They could have made every melee weapon class special and unique, not only in their movement, but also their stats. have one excel in speed, the other in damage, another one in CHANNELING (the only opportunity to make a slow attack speed playstyle viable ...), but no. Its more like a tier list, with heavy blades on top, and dual daggers at the bottom.

And now with the new melee system, they even unify how the different weapons play! same combo input and utility on all of them. I just cant understand why they do it.

Heavy blade are slower than other blade,no sense if it's faster than blade

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2 minutes ago, IgnatiuSgaming said:

Heavy blade are slower than other blade,no sense if it's faster than blade

Berserker, Fury, Primed Fury, and Rivens invalidate your words.  

A Volt teammate does so as well.  

Edited by AlMcFly
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il y a 2 minutes, AlMcFly a dit :

Berserker, Fury, Primed Fury, and Rivens invalidate your words.  

they also invalidate the need for diferent types of weapons, we might aswell just have 3 categories, short reach, normal reach, long reach. prime fury and berzerk are the worst things to happend to melee imo.

Edited by Lisztomaniac
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Just now, Lisztomaniac said:

they also invalidate the need for diferent types of weapons, we might aswell just have 3 categories, short reach, normal reach, long reach.

Your point is valid, further adding to the imbalance that exists in this game.  

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1 minute ago, Lisztomaniac said:

they also invalidate the need for diferent types of weapons, we might aswell just have 3 categories, short reach, normal reach, long reach. prime fury and berzerk are the worst things to happend to melee imo.

Funny, could've sworn everyone said it was blood ru-I mean body cou-I mean maiming str-I mean......

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The real reason that greatswords are so great is because many of DE's senior staff are in their late 30s to early 40s.

Why is that important? Male children of the 1980s were required to carry a He-Man lunchbox to elementary school, and were mandated to watch Conan at least 20 times on VHS by the time they got their first ALF-themed Trapper-Keeper.

The title heroes of these fantasy adventures wielded bastard swords or larger two-handed swords and were, like, totally radical. Any sword similar to those wielded by such gnarly dudes had to be similarly tubular.

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à l’instant, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit :

Funny, could've sworn everyone said it was blood ru-I mean body cou-I mean maiming str-I mean......

power wise yeah sure, those mods are on the "never should have existed" list too, but i find berzerk to be much more problematic, while blood rush makes your attacks hit like a truck, it doesnt fundamentally change the feeling the weapon gives, sure the numbers will be bigger, but the weight will hold, the speed will hold, my 2hander will still feel like a two hander,

berzerker on the other hand gives you 30% attack speed on a single crit for 24 seconds thats a HUUUUUUUGE buff, and thats not even taking into account that it stacks for a wooping 75% attack speed (whoever came up with this number is stupid af), you can throw berzerk on weapons with even 5% crit chance and as long as they dont have an abysmal attack speed youll have berzerk up and running the whole mission, you cant do this with blood rush, because if your weapon has less than 15% crit, blood rush its not really that much of a buff untill you hit a x2 combo multiplier, you could remove blood rush and berzerk would still be a problem, if you remove berzerker (or make it dagger only as it should have been) blood rush balances out, wanna know why blood rush is so neccesary? cause you have a 75% attack speed bonus to build its combo in the first place. 

i firmly believe berzerker should have been a dagger only mod.

i feel bad for the people that spent hours upon hours on the combo animations, only for some idiot to release berzerker and throw all that work into the trashcan.

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il y a 6 minutes, Tain_OSkoom a dit :

The real reason that greatswords are so great is because many of DE's senior staff are in their late 30s to early 40s.

Why is that important? Male children of the 1980s were required to carry a He-Man lunchbox to elementary school, and were mandated to watch Conan at least 20 times on VHS by the time they got their first ALF-themed Trapper-Keeper.

The title heroes of these fantasy adventures wielded bastard swords or larger two-handed swords and were, like, totally radical. Any sword similar to those wielded by such gnarly dudes had to be similarly tubular.

both connan and he-man used one handed swords even if weilded with two hands tho... hell im pretty sure two hander weilding heroes have never been a thing outside anime.

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I wouldn't say the best. I mean I mostly use the Zenistar when I want to not pay attention to a certain Doorway for a Minute.

Heavy Blades are good, but a lot of weapons are just stupid powerful, The Silva and Aegis Prime, the Arca Titron, Ect.

3 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

both connan and he-man used one handed swords even if weilded with two hands tho... hell im pretty sure two hander weilding heroes have never been a thing outside anime.

Does William Wallace count as a Hero?

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5 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

both connan and he-man used one handed swords even if weilded with two hands tho... hell im pretty sure two hander weilding heroes have never been a thing outside anime.

William Wallace says hi.  

Edit:  D*mn. Beaten by less than a minute.  

Edited by AlMcFly
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