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Idea For Inaros Revival Passive


R34LM
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After the show off of the new mining system, it gave me an idea. Instead of Inaros reviving himself by sucking health from two enemies, which does not scale well, why not add a skill based mini game (similar to the new mining system) to revive yourself? The enemy level will determine how difficult the minigame is, so level 10 will be easy, ~50 intermediate and 75+ requiring significant skill. You will have to complete the minigame on two different enemies while in your coffin. I figure this will help in the passive's issue of scaling while also requiring some skill when achieving higher level play.

 

Mind you, this is no argument against how well Inaros keeps himself alive, obviously it doesn't take much. However, it doesn't necessarily excuse the fact that the passive doesn't scale. Nidus, arguably, survives as well as Inaros and he has guaranteed death resist form just mashing his 1 a lot.

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9 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Would this allow you to survive more or less as Inaros, compared to now?

Theoretically more, but there are already so many ways of making sure you never get downed...that the passive is just kind of pointless.

It works well in low levels where you don't need it and it doesn't work at all in high levels where you might need it. There are no alternatives.

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11 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Theoretically more, but there are already so many ways of making sure you never get downed...that the passive is just kind of pointless.

It works well in low levels where you don't need it and it doesn't work at all in high levels where you might need it. There are no alternatives.

I added a little note after my post in response to this. I just don't agree with the fact that the passive only works when you certainly don't need it and then when you might, as you say, you can't do much.

 

10 hours ago, Urlan said:

I know for me at least, having the coffin beam scale, perhaps a percentage based version or such; would keep Inaros' flavorful revive mechanic and make it useful outside of starter levels.

See, I'm just not sure how to scale it better. If it was percentage based (and I assume you mean a percentage of health per second), mathematically it would just take the same time to leech off every enemy no matter of level, not to mention it would ultimately guarantee revival no matter what level; if you sap 100% health after 5 seconds, any enemy you leech will be dead in 5 seconds, whether they be level 5 or level 5000. That's why I wanted to steer away from numbers and math, and try to put the responsibility in the player's skill. The skill check mechanic certainly isn't the only way to do it, but it was the first example I explored. 

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43 minutes ago, R34LM said:

I added a little note after my post in response to this. I just don't agree with the fact that the passive only works when you certainly don't need it and then when you might, as you say, you can't do much.

 

See, I'm just not sure how to scale it better. If it was percentage based (and I assume you mean a percentage of health per second), mathematically it would just take the same time to leech off every enemy no matter of level, not to mention it would ultimately guarantee revival no matter what level; if you sap 100% health after 5 seconds, any enemy you leech will be dead in 5 seconds, whether they be level 5 or level 5000. That's why I wanted to steer away from numbers and math, and try to put the responsibility in the player's skill. The skill check mechanic certainly isn't the only way to do it, but it was the first example I explored. 

So are we saying a simon says deal like the puzzle on Lua but with Space Mummy themes to absorb a nearby enemy to revive?

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7 hours ago, Urlan said:

So are we saying a simon says deal like the puzzle on Lua but with Space Mummy themes to absorb a nearby enemy to revive?

Could be, could not be. Like I said, it could be any sort of skill based test that scales in difficulty depending on enemy level.

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How many inaros posts will there be until one is made where the OP knows a lot more about inaros. 

His passive is more than just the hp regen on executes and the coffin laser.

If you go down as inaros, all enemies within 14m of you get marked with sand. This is purely a visual effect. Enemies hit with your laser also gain the mark. Any time a marked enemy takes damage from any source, it counts towards your revival. So if you go down and a lot of enemies are near you, your ally can use start swinging with a melee or use an aoe ability and Insta-revive you. You can also revive yourself if you shoot off a 4 before you go down and drag an affected enemy toward you and the marked enemies.

Making his passive stronger is NOT advisable or needed. 

Also, inaros has no issue with scaling until you get to the point where you get one shot by anything and have to rely on death gates or invisibility. 

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On 2018-10-31 at 4:18 AM, Urlan said:

So are we saying a simon says deal like the puzzle on Lua but with Space Mummy themes to absorb a nearby enemy to revive?

The new mining method they showed off on the last DevStream looked pretty cool and applicable to more things. You have to target a specific point (enemy) and charge up the beam to the right point and release it.

The passive could then restore a certain portion of Inaros' health per enemy and the actual difficulty scale of the minigame would be scaled by making there be multiple points or more unsteady aiming.

Could work, and also be quite quick, since the individual points on the new mining game charged each point in under four seconds... at least that's what I saw.

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1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

The new mining method they showed off on the last DevStream looked pretty cool and applicable to more things. You have to target a specific point (enemy) and charge up the beam to the right point and release it.

The passive could then restore a certain portion of Inaros' health per enemy and the actual difficulty scale of the minigame would be scaled by making there be multiple points or more unsteady aiming.

Could work, and also be quite quick, since the individual points on the new mining game charged each point in under four seconds... at least that's what I saw.

I agree, that could be worked in pretty well if the Mining mini-game is successful.

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3 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

How many inaros posts will there be until one is made where the OP knows a lot more about inaros. 

His passive is more than just the hp regen on executes and the coffin laser.

If you go down as inaros, all enemies within 14m of you get marked with sand. This is purely a visual effect. Enemies hit with your laser also gain the mark. Any time a marked enemy takes damage from any source, it counts towards your revival. So if you go down and a lot of enemies are near you, your ally can use start swinging with a melee or use an aoe ability and Insta-revive you. You can also revive yourself if you shoot off a 4 before you go down and drag an affected enemy toward you and the marked enemies.

Making his passive stronger is NOT advisable or needed. 

Also, inaros has no issue with scaling until you get to the point where you get one shot by anything and have to rely on death gates or invisibility. 

I am actually well aware of how his passive works, well enough to invest umbra mods and two graces. He was my main for about a year until the nezha rework caught my eye. Also, your example given relies on allies (which why wouldnt they res you directly instead of feeding the passive) or really lucky timing or awareness of possible burst damage sources, which doesnt always happen. Using a dagger on him basically mutes the concept of death. However...

 

On 2018-10-30 at 11:12 AM, R34LM said:

Mind you, this is no argument against how well Inaros keeps himself alive, obviously it doesn't take much. However, it doesn't necessarily excuse the fact that the passive doesn't scale.

All I'm saying is that the revival section of the passive could use a touch up. Am i asking for wukong levels of don't die (another can of worms, I might add)? Of course not, but it's never to hardly useful in meaningful content. Some other frames have this same problem, and I could make threads on all of them. But, Inaros was my focus because, well, I mained him for a year :P.

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16 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

How many inaros posts will there be until one is made where the OP knows a lot more about inaros. 

His passive is more than just the hp regen on executes and the coffin laser.

If you go down as inaros, all enemies within 14m of you get marked with sand. This is purely a visual effect. Enemies hit with your laser also gain the mark. Any time a marked enemy takes damage from any source, it counts towards your revival. So if you go down and a lot of enemies are near you, your ally can use start swinging with a melee or use an aoe ability and Insta-revive you. You can also revive yourself if you shoot off a 4 before you go down and drag an affected enemy toward you and the marked enemies.

Making his passive stronger is NOT advisable or needed. 

Also, inaros has no issue with scaling until you get to the point where you get one shot by anything and have to rely on death gates or invisibility. 

Quoted for truth.

Also, Provoked causes his natural drain of enemies to be increased, a mod I used in the Halloween event to rapidly self-revive. 

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14 hours ago, R34LM said:

I am actually well aware of how his passive works, well enough to invest umbra mods and two graces. He was my main for about a year until the nezha rework caught my eye. Also, your example given relies on allies (which why wouldnt they res you directly instead of feeding the passive) or really lucky timing or awareness of possible burst damage sources, which doesnt always happen. Using a dagger on him basically mutes the concept of death. However...

 

All I'm saying is that the revival section of the passive could use a touch up. Am i asking for wukong levels of don't die (another can of worms, I might add)? Of course not, but it's never to hardly useful in meaningful content. Some other frames have this same problem, and I could make threads on all of them. But, Inaros was my focus because, well, I mained him for a year :P.

 

You aren't that aware if you think it only works with your allies. It works with ALL damage. Your 4, bleed, toxic, fire, environmental hazards, anything can proc it.

Why would you ever use a dagger for anything but extreme late game where the only bulk that works are death gates or straight up invisibility? It's not fun just spamming 1 and running up with a dagger. If you start going for that late game, then you want arcane trickery and energize. 

I got all my arcanes from raids. Didn't buy them. And umbra mods aren't indicative of anything. I had all my umbra mods maxed out and my main inaros suited with 2 of them within 2 days after sacrifice dropped. Now I have 2 inaros where 1 is a pure tank. 

Sure, I understand how some people don't get his passive. But trust me as someone who has mained inaros for far longer and has done far more with him, his passive is crazy strong when you fully understand it and know how to use it.

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21 hours ago, moostar95 said:

As a  inaros main myself, who are you to tell people what they like or don't like about a frame. You, i and many others love this frame for what he does. What we are asking for is some quality of life improvements.

 

 

Not saying what they should like or dislike. 

What I am saying is that there is far more to inaros and if one finds him weak, then they haven't really seen his full strength. 

No, these aren't QoL, these are buffs. QoL would be making targets afflicted by 2 easier to notice and discern from targets afflicted by his 4. QoL would be giving his 4 cc duration a timer above the ability icon instead of having 2 armor indications. One on the buff bar and the other on the ability icon. 

Making his passive better, making his 2 better, these are buffs. The only thing that inaros needs is a QoL change to make it easier for his allies to see what he is doing and maybe an initial energy cost reduction on his 3 so you don't feel punished by using it. A thread full of people who just say "his passive sucks at high levels" without any indication of a full understanding of how it works or doesn't have that much experience needs to know that his passive really isn't weak at all. 

It's the difference between someone who started playing inaros and doesn't quite understand how he works versus someone who has played and mained inaros for ages. One will see the surface "issues" Like his passive, or that he feels that you can only use a dagger with him, or his 2, etc. The other will see that his issues are clarity, how few people understand inaros, and how the current meta of kills per second makes inaros's abilities not necessary in many cases when working with a team. 

 

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10 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

 A thread full of people who just say "his passive sucks at high levels" without any indication of a full understanding of how it works or doesn't have that much experience needs to know that his passive really isn't weak at all.

Limbo had the same deal with him before he was reworked. People praised him for complex gameplay, but you know what got him changed? Complete lack of accessibility in answering "how does this work". It doesn't pay off to have a frame that only a small percentage actually knew how to use; it means the larger percentage just blow him off. Now, Inaros is simple, but his passive, as you say now, is not. You can make his passive work, sure, but honestly most could just diffuse this entire thread by saying "what are you doing dying as Inaros anyway?".

Look, did I ever say I strictly used a dagger and just spammed my 1 on anything Mot? No, but it sure as hell works for a quick heal when you need it or to just deny a high DPS target of life. Most of the time I just used a zaw staff instead and never used his 1 because his health kept him going regardless, not to mention staff finisher attacks just stink so I don't set them up for it. I am reading you like you're assuming that I'm saying Inaros is complete trash because of one passive not scaling in my opinion; again, did I ever openly disregard all of the other things he could do? I've lived without it just fine. This is strictly about his passive, nothing more, and it has been something discussed on and off since he released. The thing is, in my playthroughs, his revives have never worked for me, and if I've been playing him this long and haven't "figured it out" (as well as some others in thread) then we may be talking an issue of access depending on how many other players share that sentiment. Anecdotally; honestly I don't care to prep for my death in the way you describe and would rather prep ceasing the threat of it. The reason I suggested this is because if Inaros is going to advertise the ability rise from the dead you might as well give it consistency and have it not be determined inversely by enemy scaling so much. Am I denying that what you say works? Not at all, I'm confident in your findings, but my playstyle dictates that I should not be in that situation to begin with. Very likely nothing will change anyway, and, like I said, we've been doing fine anyway, but this thread was merely to throw an idea out because I'm sure people were thinking of ways too, but I also knew someone would defend how it is now.

In the end, I won't care if it were to get changed or not; we get 4-6 free revives per mission anyway. This is just a think tank.

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i would simply remove and change the current inaros passive with something else, like if you die with a character with 4k+ health good armor and 4 spells that: 

1) cc the enemy

2) heal yourself and your team

and you still manage to go down you simply should wait in shame someone to revive you or simply consume 1 revive. 

maybe a passive that encourage to build and use abilities rather than build inaros with only hp, armor mods and adaptation would be nice

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