Cosmetic Armor is a lost gameplay opportunity

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

5 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I want it, and I'm sure I could find other people who do easily enough. You just have a flawed perception because you're only comparing it to a half dozen or so people in this thread. Nobody has given a good reason against it so far either; they only think they have. It's been mindless repetition of the same points I either debunked or found meaningless to begin with, such as name-calling and appeal to (false notion of) popularity. Other fun fallacies so far have been: appeal to what's new (as if the age of an idea has any bearing on its value), straw-man and mischaracterizations, false comparisons (old arcanes), and... while technically not a fallacy, but merely a flaw, failing to read the thread.

So far, this is how you guys look.


If you'd like to offer reasons that actually make sense and don't rely on the arbitrary preferences of people in an entirely other context, I'd love to see them.

dud DE has stated over and over they do not want to have payto win in the game and thats what your crying for and payto win is vastly un popular in every game it is in becasue it is not fair to those that can not for what ever reason

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, NotDealwithitdog said:

My god, I have never seen such self-righteousness in a forum post.
"You don't share my opinion, so clearly I've effortlessly debunked every point made, or didn't have to because they didn't matter. You have to specifically argue reasons that I care about, despite me caring about reasons that no one else seems to. Everyone in this thread is arguing against me, but that doesn't matter since no one outside of this thread would argue with me."

Read that as if I was saying it to you, and you'd see it how I do.

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

@FrostDragoon

Out of curiosity, why do you want to attach stat bonuses to a preexisting game component, and not just create a whole new separate feature?

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

@FrostDragoon

Out of curiosity, why do you want to attach stat bonuses to a preexisting game component, and not just create a whole new separate feature?

I addressed this earlier. They can do it either way. I'd just like there to be gameplay armor and not only cosmetic. I'm not just talking about the armor stat either.

Edited October 30, 2018 by FrostDragoon

[MasterBurik]

Just now, FrostDragoon said:

I addressed this earlier. They can do it either way. I'd just like there to be gameplay armor and not only cosmetic.

So, say, the ability for frames to swap between Ferrite or Alloy armor, and Shield or Proto Shield?

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

I addressed this earlier. They can do it either way. I'd just like there to be gameplay armor and not only cosmetic. I'm not just talking about the armor stat either.

But why suggest attaching it to specific pieces as even an option? And not just advocate for a separate feature?

[FrostDragoon]

10 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

So, say, the ability for frames to swap between Ferrite or Alloy armor, and Shield or Proto Shield?

I hadn't considered that, but that would be pretty amazing.

[FrostDragoon]

10 minutes ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

But why suggest attaching it to specific pieces as even an option? And not just advocate for a separate feature?

Because those cosmetics are designed to look like armor. If they want to make it separate, and just call those cosmetics "accessories" or something, I'm okay with that too.

[Makunogo]

i'm just wondering, why do you want stats on armor anyway? you need more incentive to buy it? have you bought the arcane helmets they are closest thing to this. do you use them ?

i think in general we are already pretty overpowered for the content we have so i find it pretty redundant to suddenly start adding stats on gear. and how would one decide what stats to put in the armor? 

there is so much variation on the frames and the builds if they suddenly add stats on armor, they will also haveto start putting in a way to change those stats and thats an other level of Rng that probably nobody wants, but they would also have to put stats on ALL other armor to keep it balanced out otherwise backlash is sure to follow.

of course DE probably wont be putting stats on armor again.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Makunogo

[FlusteredFerret]

36 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I want it, and I'm sure I could find other people who do easily enough. You just have a flawed perception because you're only comparing it to a half dozen or so people in this thread. Nobody has given a good reason against it so far either; they only think they have. It's been mindless repetition of the same points I either debunked or found meaningless to begin with, such as name-calling and appeal to (false notion of) popularity. Other fun fallacies so far have been: appeal to what's new (as if the age of an idea has any bearing on its value), straw-man and mischaracterizations, false comparisons (old arcanes), and... while technically not a fallacy, but merely a flaw, failing to read the thread.

So far, this is how you guys look.


If you'd like to offer reasons that actually make sense and don't rely on the arbitrary preferences of people in an entirely other context, I'd love to see them.

Only in the fluffy pink confines of your own mind.

All the salient reasons why your idea hasn't been and shouldn't be implemented have been given...many times over.

 

And FYI this is what you look like...

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by FlusteredFerret

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

So, the reason you started this thread was because of what the armor looked like to you. Not specifically due to a desired game-play mechanic... It just felt like... It should do something, right?

You know you can do that yourself, now, right? Self-impose mod restrictions to get a good role-playing feel. Wearing bulky attachments? Maxed out Steel Fiber and Vitality with a lower ranked Redirection and regular Flow. Using Dendra? Plop in a Primed Flow with a Maxed Redirection and lower ranked Vitality and Steel Fiber.

If you can't, or don't want to do, the above yourself, don't expect others to have the same forced upon them, sacrificing stats for looks.

This is a PvE game. Cosmetics shouldn't matter in Min-Maxing since you're not trying to judge the enemy's capabilities based on looks.

Edited October 30, 2018 by A-Midnight-Shanking

[FrostDragoon]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Only in the fluffy pink confines of your own mind.

All the salient reasons why your idea hasn't been and shouldn't be implemented have been given...many times over.

 

And FYI this is what you look like...

You only prove my point.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

So, the reason you started this thread was because of what the armor looked like to you. Not specifically due to a desired game-play mechanic... It just felt like... It should do something, right?

You know you can do that yourself, now, right? Self-impose mod restrictions to get a good role-playing feel. Wearing bulky attachments? Maxed out Steel Fiber and Vitality with a lower ranked Redirection and regular Flow. Using Dendra? Plop in a Primed Flow with a Maxed Redirection.

If you can't, or don't want to do, the above yourself, don't expect others to have the same forced upon them, sacrificing stats for looks.

This is a PvE game. Cosmetics shouldn't matter in Min-Maxing since you're not trying to judge the enemy's capabilities based on looks.

Pretending it has an effect is not the same as it actually doing anything, but like I said, I just want more customization, and armor looks like a good place to do it.

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

Having an additional method of modifying a Warframe's base stats (either powercreep or just swapping values around), via another method, I'm all for.

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

Pretending it has an effect is not the same as it actually doing anything, but like I said, I just want more customization, and armor looks like a good place to do it.

So, you want more customization, but with the initially proposed method you effectively decimate cosmetic customization...

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

but I don't agree that it's a good thing at all, because most of the games are dumming down their gameplay to do it. More cosmetics at the cost of gameplay is arguably more profitable, but it makes for worse games. Period.

How is the fact DE adds more cosmetics is costing Gameplay? Fashion Framing is one of the main focus of Gameplay in Warframe, your proposal to put Stats on armors would break that idea and negatively affect Gameplay, as previously said already, you would be forcing players to choose between looks and stats and people would be forced to wear the armor sets with best stats and make armors part of the Meta, it would mean an end to Fashion Frame as you would see a bunch of people with the same armor sets.

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Small Edit:

I don't mind them being purchasable with plat, but having a way to earn them would be nice. There's plenty of stuff to spend plat on in this game, so I don't buy any "this is how they earn money" nonsense.

The game is Free-2-Play, its business model relies on having some items being behind a pay wall for the game to pay for its self. [DE] already did an awesome job not making the game Pay2Win, staying far from Loot Boxes and other shady business models. Charging players for Looks is more than fair and it has worked perfectly for Warframe during 5 years so it is no Nonsense as you describe.

[IntheCoconut]

I'm indifferent to this idea, so long as I can "transmog" my armor into whatever appearance I want regardless of the stats. I think I'd rather they revisit mods first, but this idea could help with diversifying the meta and/or solve the "copy + paste" nature of builds.

Edited October 30, 2018 by IntheCoconut

[Makunogo]

1 minute ago, IntheCoconut said:

I'm indifferent to this idea, so long as I can "transmog" my armor into whatever appearance I want regardless of the stats. I think I'd rather they revisit mods first, but this idea could help with diversifying the meta and/or solve the "copy + paste" nature of mods.

how would it diversify the meta. it would make a new one 

[IntheCoconut]

9 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

how would it diversify the meta. it would make a new one 

That is certainly a possibility. The way I see it is that by offering more options with armor, you could free up slots for different mods. As a super simple example, if your armor adds shields, you don't need to run Redirection. But I think I'd go for deeper passives with armor, such as program random occurrence, stuff that is a bit more unique than what you can get from mods. Example: every time you are hit there is a 1/2/3/4/5% (depending on how many from that armor set you are wearing) chance that you will gain X-amount-of shields.

Edited October 30, 2018 by IntheCoconut

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

1 minute ago, IntheCoconut said:

That is certainly a possibility. The way I see it is that by offering more options with armor, you could free up slots for different mods. As a super simple example, if your armor adds shields, you don't need to run Redirection. But I think I'd go for deeper passives with armor, such as program random occurrence, stuff that is a bit more unique than what you can get from mods Example: every time you are hit there is a 10% chance that you will gain shield.

Which is generally what Arcanes do already...

I aint against being able to mix-n-match stats, but don't tie specific bonuses to specific pieces of armor. Say you can do something like Lenses (Or previously Arcanes), and choose to imbue pieces with bonuses.

Which would just take us back to the *@##$-fest that was Arcanes and Syandanas and have players asking to be able to have the bonuses separate. And we'd have done the same S#&$ twice now.

[FrostDragoon]

3 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

how would it diversify the meta. it would make a new one 

I wouldn't worry about the meta anyway. There are plenty of useful non-meta builds people can and do use. That's just more an issue of personal mindset than a problem with the game. Every game has a meta, but few of them have as much freedom to deviate from it. I think this would be one more avenue of doing just that.

 

8 minutes ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

So, you want more customization, but with the initially proposed method you effectively decimate cosmetic customization...

Look, if you really think that, fair enough. It isn't the only possible solution. The OP was simply suggesting that it was mistake to have gone this route in the first place because this would have been a great way to have more customization in the game from the beginning. They did it this way, and we can come up with different solutions. I have no issue with that.

 

8 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I'm indifferent to this idea, so long as I can "transmog" my armor into whatever appearance I want regardless of the stats. I think I'd rather they revisit mods first, but this idea could help with diversifying the meta and/or solve the "copy + paste" nature of builds.

Revisiting mods wouldn't hurt. It's a fact that there are roughly 20x (give or take) the number of mods in the game as how many get used in normal builds. Meta or not, you can't deny the usefulness and power of Serration, for example. I'm not sure what they could do about that, but I do think it's a separate topic from this one. It's possible that if this idea ever got any traction and found a proper implementation for warframes, something similar could be used for weapons. I don't know, but it's interesting to consider.

 

12 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

/snip

Most of this has been covered already. Lots of p2w already exists in the game, and some things can technically be gained without paying, but the rate of acquisition for those things is so low that you're essentially facing that paywall all the same 95% of the time. Even if you wanted to discount that argument, there's no grinding for warframe/weapon slots, so you're going to have to get plat somewhere, some time. I'm not complaining about any of that, though. I'm merely saying that you can't provide a convincing argument that the point you're trying to make is really so relevant. Not because I'm immune to persuasion, but because I'm familiar with the game, how it works, similar models in other games, and how these things interact. I'll admit to a small amount of presumption in saying that you lack the tools to convince me, but this is merely because I've heard all the same arguments over this before, and it's statistically unlikely that you will be able to bring new information to the table. Given that I have heard those arguments, and don't find them persuasive, I'm justified in saying that it's "nonsense."

[Tsukinoki]

20 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Pretending it has an effect is not the same as it actually doing anything, but like I said, I just want more customization, and armor looks like a good place to do it.

You're basically contradicting yourself here.
You're saying "I want more customization!" at the same time your idea is pretty much "Lets remove customization by making armor have stats meaning one best armor, meaning no one uses cosmetics to customize their appearance because they would be actively gimping themselves if they try to!"

Your very idea doesn't add anything to customization, it takes it away.

Cosmetics as they stand add customization so you can make yourself stand out and your idea would actively hamper that.

[FrostDragoon]

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

You're basically contradicting yourself here.
You're saying "I want more customization!" at the same time your idea is pretty much "Lets remove customization by making armor have stats meaning one best armor, meaning no one uses cosmetics to customize their appearance because they would be actively gimping themselves if they try to!"

Your very idea doesn't add anything to customization, it takes it away.

Cosmetics as they stand add customization so you can make yourself stand out and your idea would actively hamper that.

You're mistaking what is meant by "customization." I don't care about cosmetics so much. I want gameplay customziation. The initial proposal may not be the best avenue of approach, and I'm okay with alternate suggestions, but it's no contradiction. It's only you taking the way that I mean a word and applying it to a different meaning for that word. That's called an "equivocation" fallacy.

[MasterBurik]

@Tsukinoki"Customization" is a term that can be applied to areas beyond aesthetics.

[IntheCoconut]

2 minutes ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

Which is generally what Arcanes do already...

I aint against being able to mix-n-match stats, but don't tie specific bonuses to specific pieces of armor. Say you can do something like Lenses (Or previously Arcanes), and choose to imbue pieces with bonuses.

Which would just take us back to the *@##$-fest that was Arcanes and Syandanas and have players asking to be able to have the bonuses separate. And we'd have done the same S#&$ twice now.

I get that it probably wouldn't be worth the effort, but pretty much every MMO in existence right now has the ability to transmogrify armor appearances. If you aren't sure what that is, players can change the appearance of their armor to match that of a different one while the stats remain the same. But you are absolutely right, its probably easiest to just keep armor as cosmetics and introduce new "slots" to expand upon.