Idea for Zephir and Chroma

[Hawner]

Justo ahora, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru dijo:

By my count only a single person agree with your post about Zephyr. Are you dumb? Doesn't looking like winning to me when everyone else met your post with criticism.

Only you 2, maybe another one but he was more respectful. Would need to check, though, I am honestly not 100% sure.

In any case, the number of those who act like you doesn't mean that all the rest of users that read this but didn't say anything think like you, only that they didn't care much for it to do it.

Also, that "we are 2 (let's say you are 4, just to be on the safe side) against 1, so we are right" is so wrong that I can't understand how anyone actually thinks that is true. there are so many cases in history where that assumption has been proven wrong that I thought noone used it anymore. Wow, I am honestly surprised.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 hours ago, Hawner said:

Only you 2, maybe another one but he was more respectful. Would need to check, though, I am honestly not 100% sure.

In any case, the number of those who act like you doesn't mean that all the rest of users that read this but didn't say anything think like you, only that they didn't care much for it to do it.

Also, that "we are 2 (let's say you are 4, just to be on the safe side) against 1, so we are right" is so wrong that I can't understand how anyone actually thinks that is true. there are so many cases in history where that assumption has been proven wrong that I thought noone used it anymore. Wow, I am honestly surprised.

So now we are allowed to count your hypothetical supporters who read the thread and didn't comment eh? 
Well then lets also count the hypothetical people who disliked your idea and didn't comment. 

You here screaming that you're right and everyone else loses somehow (lol). Its just so moronic.

And here we are self validating your own position while we have multple people saying your stance is misguided by your delusions.

3 hours ago, Hawner said:

Also, that "we are 2 (let's say you are 4, just to be on the safe side) against 1, so we are right" is so wrong that I can't understand how anyone actually thinks that is true.

3 hours ago, Hawner said:

If you say so. My post remain here for all to see. Any user that checks them will be able to confirm that I replied and argumented against everything that either of you threw at me. So far, you didn't win even one time.

[Hawner]

hace 1 minuto, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru dijo:

So now we are allowed to count your hypothetical supporters who read the thread and didn't comment eh? 
Well then lets also count the hypothetical people who disliked your idea and didn't comment. 

1

Of course you can! here, let me do it for you.

Laws of probability states that, given the options here, 50% of the users who read the idea would be on my side and the other 50% on yours. You know what that means? Nothing, because it has absolutely nothing to do here, exactly like your arguments against my idea. And that is what you fail to understand in that regard.

 

hace 4 minutos, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru dijo:

You here screaming that you're right and everyone else loses somehow (lol). Its just so moronic

4

Not everyone else, just you two who bring arguments without any logic at all or that have nothing to do here. If anyone would come and bring reasonable arguments, hey, that would be ok.

 

hace 6 minutos, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru dijo:

And here we are self validating your own position while we have multple people saying your stance is misguided by your delusions.

2

How many again? I thought we already cleared that up.

Oh, right, I forgot that is one of your strategies to discredit me, repeating things that I already argumented against. So sad.

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

There are others, like Azamagon and ObviousLee (who is the guy who most viciously fought for Flying on Zephyr) and more that I could summon, who are not very common sights anymore.

I still lurk around here, heh. Got some minor joint/nerve issues as of late, so I barely write/play anymore, sadly. But I'll give this thread a go:

I'm gonna ignore Chroma (as he needs a rather big rework, imo).

First of all; No to area-differentiation of abilities. It's better to try and fix an ability so it can be used for any area, for streamlining and consistency, but also to avoid confusion.

Second; I know the guys in here started off a bit... aggressively, but don't fight back with more aggression please. Be a better person and calm yourself (this goes for EVERYONE in here, ok?). I know it's frustrating for both sides, but please, behave yourselves.

As for your general idea (adding flight to Zephyr), I don't 100% hate it, but as @BiancaRoughfin pointed out; The part that could need changing is the holdcast part. If I were to suggest anything, it'd be this, which also delves into her passives a bit:

• Jump button - Tapping it lets her jump like normal. Holding the button, however, causes her jump to extend up higher with increasing acceleration (up to a max height). No, I don't mean a charge-function, but rather just extending your jumpheight if you hold the button longer, giving her back her old snappy upwards launch.
• Tapcast Tailwind - Left as is, but the Divebomb is changed.
• Divebomb - Now is a part of melee slams, adding a flat-damage nuke (albeit scaling with height still) and extra CC to all melee slams (along with the faster dive). Can be used even without having a melee weapon equipped. This means Divebomb NEVER gets in the way of your Tailwind-casts. Arguable wether the damage and radius of this added shockwave would be modifiable with Ability Strength/Range.
• Holdcast Tailwind - Puts Zephyr in flightmode, with the following characteristics;
  • Movement-mechanic-wise works like a faster Wukong's Cloudwalker (i.e. not keeping momentum after moving), thus movement is more controllable and agile, but also a lot slower than her tapcast Tailwind-dash. This also means she will hover if she doesn't move during flightmode. She can shoot during this regular flight mode.
  • Jump and crouch makes her fly vertically up or down, respectively.
  • Holding sprint makes her fly faster (still a bunch slower than Tailwind dashes though), but doesn't allow her to shoot meanwhile.
  • Would drain energy over time. Yes, this is a detriment to extended longdistance flights, but that's what you have the tapcast dash-version for. And it's also to not let you abuse the hover-power endlessly without landing occassionally for energy replenishments in between.
  • Rolling, using a melee slam (which is now merged with divebombing) or holdcasting the ability again puts her out of the flightmode.
  • Using a tapcast Tailwind during flightmode bursts her forward quickly, but all momentum is lost once the dash is over (i.e. it keeps her in the momentum-less flightmode).

Whatcha think? To summarize:

• Holdcast (i.e. flight) is more agile and more useable in cramped indoors areas while also still retaining the hover-mechanic.
• Tapcast (the dash) is still the bursty fast dash, which remains superior for longer distances (due to not having a drain, being more costefficient and also being faster).
• Divebomb no longer gets in the way, by being merged with melee slams.
• Straight-up-launch feature gets to stay in its old snappier way, by being added as a bonus-function to her jump button.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Azamagon

[Hawner]

First of all, thank you. This is what I wanted. You may not like the idea, but you brought constructive arguments and alternatives. Thank you!

 

hace 1 hora, Azamagon dijo:

First of all; No to area-differentiation of abilities. It's better to try and fix an ability so it can be used for any area, for streamlining and consistency, but also to avoid confusion.

I expected that. I am obviously in favor of area-differentiation of abilities (in this particular case... and in Chroma's, obviously), But I understand your point and I respect it.

 

hace 1 hora, Azamagon dijo:

Jump button - Tapping it lets her jump like normal. Holding the button, however, causes her jump to extend up higher with increasing acceleration (up to a max height). No, I don't mean a charge-function, but rather just extending your jumpheight if you hold the button longer, giving her back her old snappy upwards launch.

I like it. It's a simple change that suits her.

One question, though: I am the kind of player that keeps the spacebar pressed even after the jumping is done and can't affect it any longer. Would this affect gameplay in those cases?

 

Mostly, i like what you are suggesting. There are a few things like the Hovering, which would make her too similar to Titania's, but the overall is very good.

I can only find one problem that, ironically, is something the other two users have been accusing me of doing: the changes would affect gameplay on normal tilesets, and not always positively. if there is something I can agree with them, is that only Titania (for obvious reasons) should be able to fly outside open-world maps.

That particular issue aside, I love it. I wouldn't mind at all if it were your fixes what got in the game instead of my idea. Is simple, elegant, allow for both gamestyles (flying and not flying)...

There is one detail that interests me. My idea about Zephyr's speed while flying was to make her as fast as the Archwing, but you want to make her somewhat slower, keeping the importance of Archwings and not let her overshadow its capabilities. On one hand, I think Zephyr should be at least as fast (because heck, she can fly as she is a bird, she shouldn't need a machine for that); but on the other, I think it's a wise move. I am even thinking in how could an Archwing benefit Zephyr, and I like the idea that is poping out right now.

Thank you, very good thinking. ^^

Edited November 2, 2018 by Hawner

[Azamagon]

18 minutes ago, Hawner said:

1) First of all, thank you. This is what I wanted. You may not like the idea, but you brought constructive arguments and alternatives. Thank you!
 

2) I expected that. I am obviously in favor of area-differentiation of abilities (in this particular case... and in Chroma's, obviously), But I understand your point and I respect it.

 

3) I like it. It's a simple change that suits her.

One question, though: I am the kind of player that keeps the spacebar pressed even after the jumping is done and can't affect it any longer. Would this affect gameplay in those cases?

 

4) Mostly, i like what you are suggesting. There are a few things like the Hovering, which would make her too similar to Titania's, but the overall is very good.

5) I can only find one problem that, ironically, is something the other two users have been accusing me of doing: the changes would affect gameplay on normal tilesets, and not always positively. if there is something I can agree with them, is that only Titania (for obvious reasons) should be able to fly outside open-world maps.

6) That particular issue aside, I love it. I wouldn't mind at all if it were your fixes what got in the game instead of my idea. Is simple, elegant, allow for both gamestyles (flying and not flying)...

7) There is one detail that interests me. My idea about Zephyr's speed while flying was to make her as fast as the Archwing, but you want to make her somewhat slower, keeping the importance of Archwings and not let her overshadow its capabilities. On one hand, I think Zephyr should be at least as fast (because heck, she can fly as she is a bird, she shouldn't need a machine for that); but on the other, I think it's a wise move. I am even thinking in how could an Archwing benefit Zephyr, and I like the idea that is poping out right now.

Thank you, very good thinking. ^^

1) You're welcome!

2) Fair enough. But as you noticed, my take on it wasn't about making her flight suitable for big landscapes (even if it could obviously be a boon there too), because her dash-Tailwind and/or equipping an Archwing is already great for that. It was about making a slow and agile flight that fits better indoors, which could still work well on big landscapes as a "hovering fighter" (as per her current charge-function).

3) Unfortunately, yes, it would affect the gameplay, as she'd rise higher and higher if you keep the spacebar held down (up to a cap though). Time to stop having heavy lead-weights equipped on your fingers though hehe ^_^

4) Yeah, the high similarity with Titania is the only real problem I have with the proposal. I wanted first to suggest that it would set her in a constant forward movement (so she keeps that "jet" style, versus Titania's "helicopter" style), but then the current Hover-function would probably need to be scrapped, if not implemented in some probably clunky manner.

5) Which is tough to seperate though, at least not if done in the (imo) confusing manner of giving her flight ONLY on big landscapes.

6) That what was I was trying to do; Cater to both crowds of flight and non-flight on Zephyr.

7) Exactly. Giving her fast continuous flight capabilities is kind of redundant considering her Tailwind's dash-version and equipping an Archwing already covers that long-distance-travel need (especially now when AWs have unlimited charges). What she DOESN'T have currently though, is Tailwind working elegantly in most indoor tilesets. That, and her current launch-up version and hover-mechanics are both very clunky and slow to use (both in- and outdoors). But I think my suggestions fixes those decently enough.

[Hawner]

hace 7 minutos, Azamagon dijo:

Fair enough. But as you noticed, my take on it wasn't about making her flight suitable for big landscapes (even if it could obviously be a boon there too), because her dash-Tailwind and/or equipping an Archwing is already great for that. It was about making a slow and agile flight that fits better indoors, which could still work well on big landscapes as a "hovering fighter" (as per her current charge-function).

 

I did notice and I like that approach. While it would certainly not allow for a flight like I would like to have with Zephyr (to my excruciating frustration), I can picture kind of a slow but smooth flying around a battleflied or an Eidolon. It would give quite some problems, especially with energy cost since you would then need Turbulence continually, whereas with a faster flight it would be more sporadic, but it would be far better maneuver-wise.

I don't think it would be used indoors that much, though. As far as I remember, there aren't many tilesets with rooms big enough for that flight to be beneficial. There are quite big, like one used in Excavation missions against the Corpus, a big snowy, rocky outside section with a lot of space. Besides that, Zephyr would feel a little caged (pun intended).

 

hace 19 minutos, Azamagon dijo:

4) Yeah, the high similarity with Titania is the only real problem I have with the proposal. I wanted first to suggest that it would set her in a constant forward movement (so she keeps that "jet" style, versus Titania's "helicopter" style), but then the current Hover-function would probably need to be scrapped, if not implemented in some probably clunky manner.

 

I wanted to use the Hover mode as a complement. You felt it clunky?

 

hace 20 minutos, Azamagon dijo:

Which is tough to seperate though, at least not if done in the (imo) confusing manner of giving her flight ONLY on big landscapes.

2

I'm sorry, but I don't see where the confusion would be. To me, it even has sense, since a bird can't properly fly inside a box but almost defy gravity on a field (strange comparison, I know).

 

hace 33 minutos, Azamagon dijo:

Exactly. Giving her fast continuous flight capabilities is kind of redundant considering her Tailwind's dash-version and equipping an Archwing already covers that long-distance-travel need (especially now when AWs have unlimited charges). What she DOESN'T have currently though, is Tailwind working elegantly in most indoor tilesets. That, and her current launch-up version and hover-mechanics are both very clunky and slow to use (both in- and outdoors). But I think my suggestions fixes those decently enough.

 

The thing is that I feel weird and clunky how Tailwind is used to "fly" around the map. It works, I know that is the important thing, but doesn't feel natural for a frame like Zephyr and the control you have is... meh.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

still lurk around here, heh. 

Your ideas hasn't changed since we last spoke iirc which is sad because it means Zephyr is in the exact same place as where we were over a year ago.

You still have my support as usual. If DE wants to take any of ideas from the reworks we've proposed for years now please be my guests.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

I still lurk around here, heh.

Hey ^^ It is good to see you back, just wish it weren't in the middle of an argument with somebody that has their fingers lodged so far in their ears that they can fingerprint the inside of their retinas.

Take it easy though, typing isn't fun. I know another guy who has that, and it's not fun.

But I find myself having to agree with Renova again, Zephyr hasn't changed enough for us to have changed our stances on her. Unless there's some actual qualitative change beyond listening to the Reddit howlers... these same tired old discussions are just going to drag back and forth.

[Hawner]

hace 22 minutos, Thaylien dijo:

Hey ^^ It is good to see you back, just wish it weren't in the middle of an argument with somebody that has their fingers lodged so far in their ears that they can fingerprint the inside of their retinas.

1

In the middle of an argument? It ended when I got tired of repeating myself and bringing logic to your nonexistent issues, and more than an argument was you and the other one harassing me because you couldn't take me down.

By the way, did you see? There are people that know how to properly hold a debate without doing what you did. Azamagon also didn't like my idea but I can debate with him about it because he actually brings something constructive instead of what you did. You should learn from him.

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 minutes ago, Hawner said:

It ended when I got tired of repeating myself and bringing logic to your nonexistent issues, and more than an argument was you and the other one harassing me because you couldn't take me down.

It ended when you threw your toys out of your pram and refused to read a reply because I can actually quote your self-contradictions and lack of logic.

[Hawner]

hace 6 minutos, Thaylien dijo:

It ended when you threw your toys out of your pram and refused to read a reply because I can actually quote your self-contradictions and lack of logic.

Oh, wow! You can do the same thing that I do! Well, it shouldn't surprise me, since all you can do is repeat and not be original. or useful.

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, Hawner said:

Oh, wow! You can do the same thing that I do! Well, it shouldn't surprise me, since all you can do is repeat and not be original. or useful.

I've spent the last three years being useful here, along with the others. I notice that you weren't there for any of it, despite having an account on here for so long, so I can see how you'd be confused about what is and isn't useful.

[Hawner]

hace 5 horas, Thaylien dijo:

I've spent the last three years being useful here, along with the others. I notice that you weren't there for any of it, despite having an account on here for so long, so I can see how you'd be confused about what is and isn't useful.

Oh, yeah, I have seen how useful you can be. VERY helpful. The game would be closed by now if it weren't for you.

Whatever. I had a healthy debate with someone at least, I am happy. What you have to say is of no consequence to me.

Have a nice day. ^^

[Birdframe_Prime]

7 hours ago, Hawner said:

Oh, yeah, I have seen how useful you can be. VERY helpful. The game would be closed by now if it weren't for you.

Hey, at least when I said I could literally quote the flaws in your arguments, I did. And I wasn't the one to have a temper tantrum and discard the entire conversation, that's on you big boy.

You want to tuck your tail between your legs, fine by me ^^

[Hawner]

hace 4 horas, Thaylien dijo:

Hey, at least when I said I could literally quote the flaws in your arguments, I did. And I wasn't the one to have a temper tantrum and discard the entire conversation, that's on you big boy.

You want to tuck your tail between your legs, fine by me ^^

I beg your pardon? I have done nothing but prove you wrong this whole time until I got fed up of your attitude Check the posts again, you are very confused.

My tail is held very high, sir, just as my head. Thank you for your concern.

Now, do us both a favor and stop already. There is no point for you to stay here anymore and I am sure there are other users you can harras instead of me.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Hawner

[Birdframe_Prime]

7 hours ago, Hawner said:

I have done nothing but prove you wrong this whole time until I got fed up of your attitude

You have not proved anything, and where I called you out with actual quotes showing you hadn't, you replied to that exact comment saying you weren't even reading my response. In that same comment I even extended a hand of conciliation, trying to explain that none of this is new, none of this hasn't been said before, and that I was in your shoes along with all of the people you've spoken to in this thread, and you haven't come up with anything beyond the basics of what we came up with more than a year ago.

And you deliberately turned your nose up.

If you think that any of these comments of yours have proved anyone wrong, you are everything I've said you are.

The reason I'm here is because my points against your idea are supported by actual evidence of how this game functions, the way the developers use the exact ideas you've mentioned, and how neither support what you want to achieve. I will not be giving you the last word on the subject until you actually provide some fact-based argument to the contrary.

[Hawner]

hace 3 horas, Thaylien dijo:

You have not proved anything, and where I called you out with actual quotes showing you hadn't, you replied to that exact comment saying you weren't even reading my response.

 

You are mentioning only the very last of my replies, not all of those that came before proving you and the other guy wrong. Don't try to twist this to your favor, you can't.

hace 3 horas, Thaylien dijo:

 In that same comment I even extended a hand of conciliation, trying to explain that none of this is new, none of this hasn't been said before, and that I was in your shoes along with all of the people you've spoken to in this thread, and you haven't come up with anything beyond the basics of what we came up with more than a year ago.

And you deliberately turned your nose up.

 

Yes, you did indeed say that it wasn't new and all that, but not exactly in a conciliatory tone, just like all your posts in this thread. So forgive me if I "turned my nose up", as you say, when I didn't want to keep wasting my time with you. I've been nothing but respectful and patient until I couldn't anymore.

I'll say this again: all the posts are here for everybody to see, as evidence of what happened.

 

hace 4 horas, Thaylien dijo:

The reason I'm here is because my points against your idea are supported by actual evidence of how this game functions, the way the developers use the exact ideas you've mentioned, and how neither support what you want to achieve. I will not be giving you the last word on the subject until you actually provide some fact-based argument to the contrary.

2

All your so-called evidence that I am wrong can be resumed in one of your arguments, where you get offended of my idea because it would be useless and unusable in regular tilesets when I explicitly said many times that it would not be applied to those tilesets, only on open-world maps. Yet you kept on it, using nonesensical arguments of that kind. And those are here for all to see. Good luck trying to convince other users of how right you are with that evidence.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, Hawner said:

You are mentioning only the very last of my replies, not all of those that came before proving you and the other guy wrong. Don't try to twist this to your favor, you can't.

I quoted from your actual first two replies to me.

6 hours ago, Hawner said:

I explicitly said many times that it would not be applied to those tilesets, only on open-world maps

And that will never exist. That was the argument, that was why these points continue to be raised.

DE literally addressed that when the Plains was released, where repeated threads claimed that multiple abilities were not useful on the Plains because of the lack of cover, and they said outright that no abilities would be adapted or have changes specifically for the Plains.

If that was what you were basing any of your argument on, then it falls through immediately because it will not exist.

I don't have to convince others of my argument, it's not my argument, it's the established answer.

The same with Drain abilities, the same with flying mechanics and functions. The problems with them exist, and without anything to back up the opinions you have claimed that they don't exist or that they will have benefits that don't exist.

[Hawner]

hace 2 horas, Thaylien dijo:

I quoted from your actual first two replies to me.

 

 

hace 13 horas, Thaylien dijo:

you replied to that exact comment saying you weren't even reading my response.

 

I've counted 3 replies where I debunked you, being the fourth the one where I said "enough". So, no, you couldn't have quoted me on the first two of my replies because I did reply you in those. So, yeah, check your facts again.

 

hace 2 horas, Thaylien dijo:

And that will never exist. That was the argument, that was why these points continue to be raised.

DE literally addressed that when the Plains was released, where repeated threads claimed that multiple abilities were not useful on the Plains because of the lack of cover, and they said outright that no abilities would be adapted or have changes specifically for the Plains.

If that was what you were basing any of your argument on, then it falls through immediately because it will not exist.

I don't have to convince others of my argument, it's not my argument, it's the established answer.

The same with Drain abilities, the same with flying mechanics and functions. The problems with them exist, and without anything to back up the opinions you have claimed that they don't exist or that they will have benefits that don't exist.

1

The point of sharing ideas here is not to make DE use them, only sharing them. I knew from the beginning that it would probably never get even their attention and, even if it did, they would probably not use it because reasons. They already said they won't do that, that is ok, but still no reason why I shouldn't share my idea.

It is a viable idea, based on the fact that, again, opens possibilities without taking anything away. Would it need changes? Yes. Would it be complicated to balance those changes? Yes. I never negated any of that. Still, the idea, the concept that I shared, is viable for use.

You are the one basing your whole argument against me in that it would be bad outside the plains. That is the very only argument I actually ignored, mainly because it didn't need to be addressed for obvious reasons. All the rest, completely argumented against and solved.

If you don't want to see it, that is your problem. Don't blame me for that.

I am not going to debate the idea with you, and yet you are still here, accusing me... of what? Hurting your ego? You couldn't bring me down, now you are going to keep coming and fill this thread with further evidence of how you treat those who think differently from you?

Well, I just had an idea for that that will benefit me, and since you seem so immensely intent on having the last word, you are going to help me either you want it or not: We already said everything there is to say except to insult each other, and I don't want to go there. As said before, you are not going to let this go unless you are the last one, so I'll use that... determination, if you will, to keep bumping this thread everyday to the top. You keep coming and say whatever lie or fake argument you want, I'll just reply with "No" and leave it at that. I don't really lose my time dealing with someone like you and, if you still want to keep going at it, I benefit from that. I have been patient enough with this issue and your attitude.

Do you like that idea? If you don't, that is unfortunate. I am starting now.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Hawner

[Caelward]

54 minutes ago, Hawner said:

 

I've counted 3 replies where I debunked you, being the fourth the one where I said "enough". So, no, you couldn't have quoted me on the first two of my replies because I did reply you in those. So, yeah, check your facts again.

 

The point of sharing ideas here is not to make DE use them, only sharing them. I knew from the beginning that it would probably never get even their attention and, even if it did, they would probably not use it because reasons. They already said they won't do that, that is ok, but still no reason why I shouldn't share my idea.

It is a viable idea, based on the fact that, again, opens possibilities without taking anything away. Would it need changes? Yes. Would it be complicated to balance those changes? Yes. I never negated any of that. Still, the idea, the concept that I shared, is viable for use.

You are the one basing your whole argument against me in that it would be bad outside the plains. That is the very only argument I actually ignored, mainly because it didn't need to be addressed for obvious reasons. All the rest, completely argumented against and solved.

If you don't want to see it, that is your problem. Don't blame me for that.

I am not going to debate the idea with you, and yet you are still here, accusing me... of what? Hurting your ego? You couldn't bring me down, now you are going to keep coming and fill this thread with further evidence of how you treat those who think differently from you?

Well, I just had an idea for that that will benefit me, and since you seem so immensely intent on having the last word, you are going to help me either you want it or not: We already said everything there is to say except to insult each other, and I don't want to go there. As said before, you are not going to let this go unless you are the last one, so I'll use that... determination, if you will, to keep bumping this thread everyday to the top. You keep coming and say whatever lie or fake argument you want, I'll just reply with "No" and leave it at that. I don't really lose my time dealing with someone like you and, if you still want to keep going at it, I benefit from that. I have been patient enough with this issue and your attitude.

Do you like that idea? If you don't, that is unfortunate. I am starting now.

Are you still going? He's been nothing but polite, carefully explaining the problems with your arguments. You've failed to read and understand exactly where these arguments came from and why they existed. You seem hung up on having the only correct opinion after we've come in to tell you just what's going on.

We've already had this problem. We made these suggestions. Why tried to figure out 'how could Zephyr fly' only to have our ideas shot down by DE's own words and actions. So we shifted gears and tried to figure out what abilities could replace what she has. Or perhaps what could fix what's already there.

All ignored.

Are you disappointed with us?

We are disappointed with how widely Zephyr has been ignored. It's been four years since she was released. Until the massive warframe rework update the only attention she got was turbulence bug fixing. Then when they announced the changes our worries got buried in with conversations about 10 other frames, preventing us from have any sort of effective conversation.

 

You wanna know why we are bitter? Because we love Zephyr and saw so many ways she could be better. In the end, DE went with the quick and easy changes, fixed nothing and has refused to acknowledge us any further. This is the party you are trying to join. Our whole point is to help you understand just what it is you're getting into with Zephyr.

Neglect and silence.

[Hawner]

hace 1 hora, Caelward dijo:

Are you still going? He's been nothing but polite, carefully explaining the problems with your arguments. You've failed to read and understand exactly where these arguments came from and why they existed. You seem hung up on having the only correct opinion after we've come in to tell you just what's going on.

 

Actually, it has been the other way around, me being patient and replying his arguments when he only repeated the same already answered issues, talked to me like I was an idiot and failing to understand the very basic points of this thread. I've had enough. I can't be polite to someone who doesn't give a F.

 

hace 1 hora, Caelward dijo:

We've already had this problem. We made these suggestions. Why tried to figure out 'how could Zephyr fly' only to have our ideas shot down by DE's own words and actions. So we shifted gears and tried to figure out what abilities could replace what she has. Or perhaps what could fix what's already there.

All ignored.

Are you disappointed with us?

We are disappointed with how widely Zephyr has been ignored. It's been four years since she was released. Until the massive warframe rework update the only attention she got was turbulence bug fixing. Then when they announced the changes our worries got buried in with conversations about 10 other frames, preventing us from have any sort of effective conversation.

 

You wanna know why we are bitter? Because we love Zephyr and saw so many ways she could be better. In the end, DE went with the quick and easy changes, fixed nothing and has refused to acknowledge us any further. This is the party you are trying to join. Our whole point is to help you understand just what it is you're getting into with Zephyr.

Neglect and silence.

2

I am NOT disappointed in you as users, not at all. I've had the luxury of not having experienced that silence from DE, but I can imagine that it has not been pretty for you. If anything, my disappointment goes to DE. I understand that not all ideas from players are exactly golden (Hell, my own idea would need a lot of work if DE decided to give it a try, and that is a big if.), but completely ignoring the players? That is something I do not agree with.

I understand you are bitter, I do. But just because I dared let my mind go wild and show you something that for you may be yet more of the same but for me is new (I've been out of warframe for 4 years and I am not much of a forum kind of guy) it doesn't mean anyone has the right to shut down my idea like he is trying to do. Even you, who are also against it, only posted your argument a couple of times and let this thing go. This other guy still hasn't. It's not me who you should be blaming, but him instead. Had he stopped after I decided to drop the issue instead of making this personal, this wouldn't have happened.

I do understand why you guys are bitter about this issue with Zephyr, but I do not care how bitter you are if what you do because of it is being something I prefer not to say to avoid a red flag. That is crossing a line.

You have come here and explained this situation to me with respect, so I replied in kind. Same with Amazagon, who was also against my idea but still tried to work with it, sharing his own view on the matter. Can you sincerely find that kind of respect you and Amazagon had in any of Thaylien's posts? I have checked them just now and there isn't any at all. He is just angry and aggressive. I am no saint, even less so after certain point, but I am defending myself from his provocations.

That is the problem at this very moment, and I have reached my breaking point. I do not want to start calling names, so that leaves me with very few other options to try and solve this problem.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Hawner

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 hours ago, Caelward said:

He's been nothing but polite, carefully explaining the problems with your arguments.

Actually after he started ignoring those problems I've been pretty impolite with him, mostly because I don't take well to people that fail to grasp logical arguments and pretend that they've debunked them.

14 hours ago, Hawner said:

The point of sharing ideas here is not to make DE use them, only sharing them. I knew from the beginning that it would probably never get even their attention and, even if it did, they would probably not use it because reasons. They already said they won't do that, that is ok, but still no reason why I shouldn't share my idea.

The point of sharing ideas on a Public Forum is that the Public expresses their views and will bring points and counter-points. If you cannot actually address those to the public, how do you think you're ever going to address them to the Developers?

14 hours ago, Hawner said:

It is a viable idea, based on the fact that, again, opens possibilities without taking anything away. Would it need changes? Yes. Would it be complicated to balance those changes? Yes. I never negated any of that. Still, the idea, the concept that I shared, is viable for use.

Except that's the entire argument; it isn't a viable method because it was already raised as a possible viable method and we've been told that it isn't one.

This is why all of your responses have been blue-sky imaginings and nothing that will hold up under scrutiny; because they've been examined and turned down before.

You can't 'debunk' arguments against your ideas when the ideas themselves are simply carbon-copies of ones that came before and were already debunked.

If you have no relevant debate to add and cannot show even a shred of initiative to try and explain how your ideas are different and how they would actually address my points, rather than hiding behind the pretend defense of 'they're just ideas, don't be mean', all you have to do is say 'no' in reply.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Is it me or do I sense Zephyr and Chroma might be siblings that (SPOILERS) Ballas made into frames....

[Hawner]

hace 3 horas, Thaylien dijo:

Ha

Edited November 5, 2018 by Hawner