Idea for Zephir and Chroma

[Hawner]

hace 4 horas, (PS4)FriendSharkey dijo:

Is it me or do I sense Zephyr and Chroma might be siblings that (SPOILERS) Ballas made into frames....

Uh? What led you to that conclusion? O.o

Edited November 5, 2018 by Hawner

[Endrian]

THE SACRIFICE SPOILERS AHEAD

Spoiler

I do wonder what Chroma might've been like in life, if there's ever to be a Chroma Umbra quest that gives us a peek at his life. Was he a Dax warrior? Was he an unrelated "monster hunter"? Or maybe he was both, a Dax that specialised in hunting monsters, got Ballas's attention, and that led to his assimilation into the Warframe project.

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

14 hours ago, Hawner said:

Ha

See, I knew that there was a person underneath all that indignation.

[Hawner]

hace 3 horas, Thaylien dijo:

See, I knew that there was a person underneath all that indignation.

No

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Okay, now the thread is just bickering, on both sides. Usually from what I've seen those two don't comment with such aggression, but I guess Zephyr is a special case, lol. But @Hawner, as @Azamagon already said, no need to respond to them with more aggression. It doesn't take the thread anywhere constructively.

I actually do like the idea of the wind/bird to be able to fly continuously, though I don't think it's necessarily needed. Instead, how about mixing some elements of flight into Tail Wind which allows her to stop, so we'll have the best of both worlds and can tweak that ridiculous Hover mechanic. Hopefully it makes everyone happy.

Tail Wind / Dive Bomb

• simply tapping the command will propel Zephyr forwards like she currently does, but at 50% speed
  • colliding with any level geometry will trigger Dive Bomb, you can also instantly recover from Dive Bomb
    • basically, Zephyr can Dive Bomb into walls, and can also Dive Bomb on angles
    • this also helps because you'd be able to instantly recover after colliding with walls, which is something people really want
      • not as much struggle on indoor maps due to Tail Wind being slower and being able to instantly recover after collision
• holding the command will propel Zephyr forwards at 100% speed for 5 seconds, but costs double the energy
  • in this mode, Zephyr can change flying direction by guiding the reticule
  • plus, all the Dive Bomb extra effects are in this mode also
• pressing the aim command while using Tail Wind will cause Zephyr to Hover in the air temporarily

Basically, not only is Tail Wind much smoother to use indoors, but you also get guided flight outdoors, which is also much faster than Titania's.

How does it sound?

[Hawner]

hace 1 hora, (PS4)ArtPrince17 dijo:

Okay, now the thread is just bickering, on both sides. Usually from what I've seen those two don't comment with such aggression, but I guess Zephyr is a special case, lol. But @Hawner, as @Azamagon already said, no need to respond to them with more aggression. It doesn't take the thread anywhere constructively.

 

I am being completely passive. There is no aggression from my part, just his. He comes to fight, I refuse to. Simple.

 

hace 1 hora, (PS4)ArtPrince17 dijo:

I actually do like the idea of the wind/bird to be able to fly continuously, though I don't think it's necessarily needed. Instead, how about mixing some elements of flight into Tail Wind which allows her to stop, so we'll have the best of both worlds and can tweak that ridiculous Hover mechanic. Hopefully it makes everyone happy.

Tail Wind / Dive Bomb

• simply tapping the command will propel Zephyr forwards like she currently does, but at 50% speed
  • colliding with any level geometry will trigger Dive Bomb, you can also instantly recover from Dive Bomb
    • basically, Zephyr can Dive Bomb into walls, and can also Dive Bomb on angles
    • this also helps because you'd be able to instantly recover after colliding with walls, which is something people really want
      • not as much struggle on indoor maps due to Tail Wind being slower and being able to instantly recover after collision
• holding the command will propel Zephyr forwards at 100% speed for 5 seconds, but costs double the energy
  • in this mode, Zephyr can change flying direction by guiding the reticule
  • plus, all the Dive Bomb extra effects are in this mode also
• pressing the aim command while using Tail Wind will cause Zephyr to Hover in the air temporarily

Basically, not only is Tail Wind much smoother to use indoors, but you also get guided flight outdoors, which is also much faster than Titania's.

How does it sound?

2

While dive-bombing walls doesn't sound right to me, the general idea feels right. Zephyr wouldn't have flight mode per se, but Tailwind would feel close to it.

The energy costs would be something to debate about. While I agree that 5 seconds allows for quite some travel in comparison with what it does now, double the cost seems a bit excessive. The basic cost is 25, so a 5 sec travel would cost 50 energy each time. Even if we mod Zephyr for travels, it doesn't look cost-efficient.

What if, as an added cost, instead of double we make it 10 extra energy unaffected my efficiency mods? For efficiency builds would still sting, but not that much, and for power builds (that add more costs to abilities), it wouldn't add an excesive amount of extra per use. Think it is better?

There is another thing now that I think of it: Holding the 1 key would activate the full propel mode or you have to keep it down during those 5 seconds? If the former, then there is no problem, but if the later, then to activate "hovering mode" we would be pressing both 1 (to keep the ability active) and aim to hover. That would be a little uncomfortable, don't you think?

Other than that, I find it a very good change. Fixes its use indoors and adds a new traveling function for open maps. I like it! *thumbs up*

Edited November 6, 2018 by Hawner

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

22 hours ago, Hawner said:

The energy costs would be something to debate about. While I agree that 5 seconds allows for quite some travel in comparison with what it does now, double the cost seems a bit excessive. The basic cost is 25, so a 5 sec travel would cost 50 energy each time. Even if we mod Zephyr for travels, it doesn't look cost-efficient.

What if, as an added cost, instead of double we make it 10 extra energy unaffected by efficiency mods? For efficiency builds would still sting, but not that much, and for power builds (that add more costs to abilities), it wouldn't add an excessive amount of extra per use. Think it is better?

I was thinking in the back of my mind that double might be a bit too much. Something like 10 extra energy is good, but to compensate, would probably lower the base duration to 3 seconds.

22 hours ago, Hawner said:

There is another thing now that I think of it: Holding the 1 key would activate the full propel mode or you have to keep it down during those 5 seconds? If the former, then there is no problem, but if the later, then to activate "hovering mode" we would be pressing both 1 (to keep the ability active) and aim to hover. That would be a little uncomfortable, don't you think?

Just holding it for about a second or two, just like what Hydroid can do.

[Hawner]

hace 56 minutos, (PS4)ArtPrince17 dijo:

I was thinking in the back of my mind that double might be a bit too much. Something like 10 extra energy is good, but to compensate, would probably lower the base duration to 3 seconds.

 

Yeah, something like that would work very nicely. Zephyr is normally modded with duration, so those 3 seconds would end up being like 5-6 easily. Not enough to fly around the whole map, but enough for trips from an area to the next. ^^

[Caelward]

On 2018-11-06 at 7:10 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

 

• colliding with any level geometry will trigger Dive Bomb, you can also instantly recover from Dive Bomb
  • basically, Zephyr can Dive Bomb into walls, and can also Dive Bomb on angles
  • this also helps because you'd be able to instantly recover after colliding with walls, which is something people really want
    • not as much struggle on indoor maps due to Tail Wind being slower and being able to instantly recover after collision

I've touted this one before, but I'm reluctant to support it now. Just tossing out certain abilities such as her airburst show the unreliability of terrain hit boxes. 

We did take the suggestion a bit further through our conversations.

One of the suggestions we attempted to champion, and got sadly ignored, was for Zephyr to transition into wall running if she skimmed terrain or wall latch (with potential divebomb proc) to any surface she hit at a sufficiently steep angle. Divebomb is nice, but Zephyr is also about freedom of movement and divebomb tends to require you stop in place for a minute. A straight wall latch would give you more freedom to bounce off that surface and continue moving since you are likely traversing the map at this point anyways.

 

I'm a little biased on Divebomb though because I feel like it should be a passive that replaces Zephyr's melee slam. They certainly don't seem to want to let divebomb be upgradable, so instead give it set stats, with straight additions from her held weapon. Divebomb would then see use outside edge cases within tailwind and would also solve the odd hover glitch Zephyr has when trying to melee slam at the apex of a jump. As part of this you could also give her a quick, near useless divebomb when she isn't carrying a weapon, allowing her a way to get back to the ground supporting her thematic air mastery.

 

But there's something funky going on with Tailwind considering the stubborn problems we've had with momentum even until today. I have no complaints with the tap to go suggestion for tailwind, it sounds quite feasible, it's come up before and I liked it here as much as I liked it then. The only worry is that we're afraid DE would put a drain on it and drain has annoying limitations that make it expensive. I'd like the tap to launch back, but as much as I want it, I don't see DE putting that back. But yea, with that momentum problem, tap to go will probably still plant you into the occasional wall. 😕