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Endurance runs as a whole in warframe.


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As an player who enjoys endurance I would love a scaling reward system to go with them on normal missions there isn't one which is sad but we do have fissures which have resource boosters that also scale the amount of traces you get that's amazing longer I stay in a mission more void traces I can get to refine more relics and the booster goes up to 100% and stacks with other resource buffs.

Only one issue I have a void trace cap making it worthless to go past the point of my cap and even better by the time you have hit your cap given you are running a booster and at least MR 21 you have only just started to get to witness greatness by having a 100% booster and another 100% booster for each crack giving you 100+ traces at the min. Then if you have a kavat oh boy you are off to the races with all that loot if you time it with a proc. That win tho oh its short lived when you see the next crack you will lose traces because its gonna go over your cap making it so all that work to get there was just go to hit cap a little quicker and be forced to ruin your run. Well you could stay and just deal with a free rad every five cracks instead of getting 5-10 rads worth of traces and a free rad. Best part of it all by the time that happens oh that fissure is long gone baby and you are very blessed if its refreshed.

My question is why create a scaling reward system then destroy it by a gate? Its the only scaling rewards we really get that become worth something but atlas its worth nothing as you can't even keep a rotation of constant rads cracking due to the cap. Even tho you are good enough to play that long and earn the total amount of traces to achieve that thanks to the scaling system.

Give no scaling rewards for most missions and when they finally have real scaling rewards the main reason for an player to go that long is taken away before even a 20th of the level cap.

Why make defense and excavation but not scale the objective to at least take hits but instead its one shot well before even 50% of the level cap.

Then there's the amount of bugs, I can understand you don't have the man hours for someone to bug test a 18hr run but then my question is why is it even a thing. Limit for what you can test for don't make players deal with a messy unenjoyable play because either the game breaks and stops working or mobs go into a overdrive state and act way out of code. We understand stuff can go wrong even after 100s of hrs testing but there is nothing that I can see is being done actively to keep the game mode running smooth. My endurance runs as a whole have gotten worse and worse with the bugs overtime its at the point to where I'd only be doing endurance runs to collect bug info and take hrs to log for DE then just to wait for them to fix it meanwhile they just destroyed months of planning for a long run and making time for it. Making the chances of doing it again much slimmer. Esp if its group play.

And for me most importantly why do so many frames not last at endgame in solo play. Our options not only from the bugs but from the armor scaling and damage scaling are forced into playing just a page of options when we have a dictionary at our hands and well the main way I killed at level cap which was melee(not covert) is also possibly being destroyed as well making my options even less. 

Why create endless when its only as endless as the bugs, gating will allow it and if its not that its the fact that most of the game doesn't even make it to 50% of level cap.

Why make group play endless and never give people a chance to pause and go the bathroom, get a drink I've made a post about this before do you just want us to have bed pans under us or get a bag attached to my body so I can go the bathroom freely?

I have also made a post with a game mode that would both be appealing to people who like fighting high level content faster, better rewards that can be found on my profile for my idea behind that.

I thought the idea of video games was to keep you playing as long as possible but when it comes to warframe I don't see that as the longer I play in a mission the less I want to play the game its boring as how I'm forced to play, unrewarding and as buggy as a game that just hit beta yesterday for its 1st day, the company produced it out of garage and hosting off their 56k connection while their mother is watching the latest pet videos in 4k.  

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2 minutes ago, thebakertv_-twitch said:

As an player who enjoys endurance I would love a scaling reward system to go with them

DE wants the game to be played in "bite sized chunks". So, at this stage DE has no intention to add scaling rewards. 

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The gap is there to not give people an incentive to no-life. Indication of this is the text "You have been playing for over an hour. Please don't forget to take a break.". The gap also stops you from making every single of your relics radiant and trivializing rare prime parts farm.

The idea of games should not be to incentivize people to play many hours at a time but allow and even reward shorter gaming periods so people can take those breaks you speak of.

The more content devs add to the game, the more bugs there are gonna be. And being short-handed compared to companies like Blizzard, DE has to choose which bugs it will address first. And they likely choose bugs that are affected by more players instead of long endurance run bugs.

I get the feeling this game wasn't also designed with endurance runners in mind: they simply allowed people the option to do those runs. A lot of frames don't seem compatible with long endurance runs, and non-melee weapons ain't so hot after 2+ hours of survival, especially against armored targets.

I used to raid in WoW. Did a lot of 3-4 hour raids and it got old at some point, even though they kept adding new raids. Having to do the same thing for 3+ hours is not as much fun as a change of pace and doing different things, not to me at least. And Warframe rewards you for those shorter periods of playing instead of making you sit hours at a time on one mission. That is why I like it.

Edited by GOOFBALL1
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1 hour ago, krc473 said:

DE wants the game to be played in "bite sized chunks". So, at this stage DE has no intention to add scaling rewards. 

So did you miss when they added the boosters and free refined relic from endless fissures? It starts at 25% for credit, affinity, resource and drop chance resource also every five crack you get a free refined relic this starts at exceptional. After 10 cracks those boosters they will have all upgrade to 50%(each round after the 5th crack gives a 25% booster to one of the boosters order is affinity, credit, resource and drop chance) and relic upgraded to flawless, after 15 cracks booster will be 75% and a free radiant relic will be rewarded at which one point every five cracks after will give another free radiant relic. The boosters on the 20th crack will all be at 100% and cap out there. Meaning you get 100% more affinity, credits, resources(void traces are counted in that) and drop chance. 

This is called scaling rewards. So they had intentions but dropped them and forgot about the game mode as a whole to the point where they didn't even remove it. This is my issue and if you read my post fully you would understand that I wasn't asking for scaling rewards but them to either take the game mode out or fix it. Should I of kept it bite sized for you?

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1 hour ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

The gap is there to not give people an incentive to no-life. Indication of this is the text "You have been playing for over an hour. Please don't forget to take a break.". The gap also stops you from making every single of your relics radiant and trivializing rare prime parts farm.

 

Well I never get that message as I am in america the EU version you'll get that well that's at least what DE Reb said recently but see on solo you can pause and take a break. Shocking right?!?!? So shouldn't we be asking for that in group play to so we can take a break?

Have you played Diablo or any grind based game?

1 hour ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

The idea of games should not be to incentivize people to play many hours at a time but allow and even reward shorter gaming periods so people can take those breaks you speak of.

A simple pause for 10-15 mins every 55 mins fixes that if the timer hits 55 mins and still in the round it will wait till the round is over to give you option to pause and take a break. Could go even better by making the pause as long as you want.

 

1 hour ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

The more content devs add to the game, the more bugs there are gonna be. And being short-handed compared to companies like Blizzard, DE has to choose which bugs it will address first. And they likely choose bugs that are affected by more players instead of long endurance run bugs.

Most of the time players don't do endurance runs because of the reasons I posted above bugs being a huge part. 

 

1 hour ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

I get the feeling this game wasn't also designed with endurance runners in mind: they simply allowed people the option to do those runs. A lot of frames don't seem compatible with long endurance runs, and non-melee weapons ain't so hot after 2+ hours of survival, especially against armored targets.

This game was built off endurance the void key system is a prize example of that. One key you can stay as long as you want and keep getting loot. The leaderboards of old were flooded with people doing content till they couldn't because it was the best way to farm. 

Most importantly why would they have the content if it wasn't intended to go there wouldn't a company give their players then a cap and a end reward that was worth the time spent? 

Why did they at one point have stealth for every frame attached to the melee system which is the system that scales the best besides sniper rifles, making it so all frames could go as long as they wanted?

This game was designed around endurance there are old cave paintings telling of this in its past but it was the game of old why not either do one of two things get rid of it or tune to it. You can't have a game mode and not tune for it. 

1 hour ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

I used to raid in WoW. Did a lot of 3-4 hour raids and it got old at some point, even though they kept adding new raids. Having to do the same thing for 3+ hours is not as much fun as a change of pace and doing different things, not to me at least. And Warframe rewards you for those shorter periods of playing instead of making you sit hours at a time on one mission. That is why I like it.

That would be your personal take level of enjoyment which warframe has the perfect missions for you and I'd never say take them away as days where I don't want to run endurance or maybe help some new people out quickly I can without putting them into situations where they aren't comfortable but you seem to only care of your own self wants and not think that maybe there is someone out there that loves going to whatever the highest level content is in the game. Me idc I love D3 and the rift system just to give you an idea and been to level cap in warframe 4 times solo doing solo interception with frost and rhino prime.

Edited by Guest
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and I go there solo only because I can take breaks with pausing the game. I think its insane they have endless and no pause for group play.

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4 hours ago, thebakertv_-twitch said:

My question is why create a scaling reward system then destroy it by a gate?

They don't want people to regularly spend hours in the same mission, or, even worse, feel like they "have" to in order to play the game "right". Fissures have increasing rewards, yes, but they don't scale infinitely and Fissures are only available randomly, lots of times not even having an endless Fissure up.

2 hours ago, thebakertv_-twitch said:

I think its insane they have endless and no pause for group play.

Because wanting something doesn't negate the fact it is a hard thing to do. It is a non-trivial thing to coordinate given the game and the network, so it really isn't all that surprising it hasn't been introduced and wouldn't surprise me if it never comes. They probably see ending the mission as a suitable pause for groups.

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32 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Fissures have increasing rewards, yes, but they don't scale infinitely and Fissures are only available randomly, lots of times not even having an endless Fissure up.

I was happy with the scaling my issue is the void trace cap.

 

32 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They don't want people to regularly spend hours in the same mission, or, even worse, feel like they "have" to in order to play the game "right".

How would that force people to feel like they need to do endless? We have the system in play and can hardly get a pug group to stay for 10 cracks as is let alone 20+....removing the cap wouldn't change that. As they already skip out on the efficiency they are given and given its not even at half of most players caps yeah safe to say removing the trace cap wouldn't change a thing. 

If they didn't want people doing it, they wouldn't have endless as a game mode just saying it would have a end. Please answer this one over all of them. Why would they make endless if they didn't want people sitting in a mission for hrs and have many missions in the game. They even did a rework on excavation and still made it endless. I'd love to know where you all get this idea they don't want you to sit in a mission for hrs when they've created that mission type on every planet and different types of those missions.

35 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Because wanting something doesn't negate the fact it is a hard thing to do. It is a non-trivial thing to coordinate given the game and the network, so it really isn't all that surprising it hasn't been introduced and wouldn't surprise me if it never comes. They probably see ending the mission as a suitable pause for groups.

So create an endless game mode but you can't reach the end because you need to go pee...makes sense. This should be put in every game. Can't finish the content because you need to go to the bathroom you have to restart every time. That would go amazing for 4hr+ content. Its why I only do it solo because I can pause.

Its insane you all love it but you do you boo boo. I'll just be here making sense instead of being happy I'm a caged animal while in group play for an endurance run. Must of really loved when your teacher would say "no peter you can not go to the restroom until the lesson is over" while you are doing the dance to the gods so you don't soil yourself. 

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1 hour ago, thebakertv_-twitch said:

Its insane you all love it but you do you boo boo. I'll just be here making sense instead of being happy I'm a caged animal while in group play for an endurance run. Must of really loved when your teacher would say "no peter you can not go to the restroom until the lesson is over" while you are doing the dance to the gods so you don't soil yourself. 

If you want to see what true insanity looks like you should read this paragraph. 

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6 hours ago, thebakertv_-twitch said:

So did you miss when they added the boosters and free refined relic from endless fissures?

I am aware of that, yes. I was just telling you what DE said recently on the matter. As you did not acknowledge that anywhere.

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13 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I am aware of that, yes. I was just telling you what DE said recently on the matter. As you did not acknowledge that anywhere.

Yet they still have yet to remove it....seems their words carry no action on this and haven't for a long time.

We don't want people to sit in missions for hrs but hey lets leave it in there to let more people like. That'll hold them when they remove it!

Its been over a year they've been saying that and no action what so ever so given that imo it doesn't count. Its just talk and there isn't even talk of what it will be replaced with even further more making their talk worthless. I've stopped listening to it till the day I hear of what they will do to replace it until then its a part of the game that for no reason they ignore. I don't even see them putting up so much as a post to collect ideas on what people would like to see over endless. I just hear that they don't like people sitting in a mission and no real reasoning behind it. 

I have presented an idea in another thread but that gained no traction so I figure if that's not going to might as well try and point out the bad in our current situation and maybe get it fixed but instead your way of going about it is to just bend to DE not wanting something instead of being a customer and actually using it to keep something around and make it better. No instead you just add negative and in force their decision.

Clearly people have forgotten they have a voice they can use for good but instead what I find mostly in these forums is people just taking dumps on people. Its sad. Just done trying to put any good word in because well the people on the forums clearly aren't doing endurance as well they wouldn't be taking the time to post here well some do but they've always been from my streams and well they're also tired of never being heard because of this reason. tbh I'd think with almost 3500 post you'd have an spine and not just give up because DE doesn't like something we are the ones that keep this game going without us playing they have no game you should remember that next time your reasoning is "because DE said something"

Endless runs and fighting higher level content is what brought me to this game not doing content that I can use a starter weapon with and kill everything only because its level is just to low to make the game a challenge in any sense. Taking out endless wouldn't even bother me as long as I could fight content that is a challenge, isn't a buggy mess and doesn't use immunity as the only form of challenge. 

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1 hour ago, Shazz4m said:

If you want to see what true insanity looks like you should read this paragraph. 

No more like a frustrated person because 95% of the people on here I engage with are just as toxic as you. Nothing good to say just trash.

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4 minutes ago, thebakertv_-twitch said:

Its been over a year they've been saying that and no action what so ever so given that imo it doesn't count.

What are you even talking about?

 

How can there be "no action" when DE have said they are not doing anything?

DE is not going to remove scaling from fissures. They never said they would.

 

You should acknowledge DE's stance, and explain why it is incorrect.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb krc473:

You should acknowledge DE's stance, and explain why it is incorrect.

DE's stance is incoherent at least. They say they don't want ppl to stay in missions for hours, but not too long ago, not even a year, so after they started this approach, we had this really fun defection event, where ppl needed to stay in the same mission for half a day to be eligable for the rewards. Then we got Khora which requires grinding the exact same missions for hours and hours and hours. Just because you have to restart it again and again doesn't make you spend a single minute less inside the same mission. Sure, theoretically you can take breaks easier, but after having the defection event I sincerly doubt they care about the players health that much.

I have to say I'm undecided at the topic. Endurance for me isn't as fun as it used to be mostly due to the fact that I learned how to exploit the AI and the scaling well enough that it's not a challenge anymore to reach high timers. Maybe that's because I mostly played them solo, especially survival, might be more fun in a group, but we desperatly need individual extraction for that mode before attempting to make ppl stay longer there.

What I do get is the frustration of the OP with all the people telling him basically "DE made it so, now it's law forever".  We are allowed to have thoughts, this entire section of the forum is dedicated to those since the Devs very well know that they are in a process of development. They are not as arrogant to think they already found perfection for everything, so arguing from that standpoint serves no point. And every time I see a statement starting with "they think" I have to laugh... pls only state what you think you're not a mindreader. Most of the time that start is only followed up by an interpretation of one of the official statements (sometimes not even that) from a specific point in time. Be mindful that a single statement can be heard differently by different individuals before starting to attack them based on some perceived devine knowledge you possess. (that last paragraph is not directed at you @krc473 it's more a general observation i came across latley in these forums regarding people suggesting changes 😉 )

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1 hour ago, W3zeer said:

DE's stance is incoherent at least.

I think its just an excuse they use to dismiss the suggestion of scaling rewards more than anything. Grinding the same mission for hours to get one frame is fine, or the defection event, or many other things. It seems like DE simply do not wish to deal with balancing how scaling rewards would work. If that is the case, they could simply say "we do not want to do it" and be done with it.

 

Personally, I might be inclined to do some endurance runs if there was some benefit in them.

1 hour ago, W3zeer said:

What I do get is the frustration of the OP with all the people telling him basically "DE made it so, now it's law forever".

My statements were solely around "this is what DE have said in the past" and "you need to explain why their stance is incorrect". This is the bit most people ignore in terms of scaling rewards. DE has said no, but people do not acknowledge that, or explain what the benefit to DE will be if they can make scaling rewards. [in DE should add scaling threads]

4 hours ago, krc473 said:

You should acknowledge DE's stance, and explain why it is incorrect.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2018-10-31 at 6:49 PM, krc473 said:

I think its just an excuse they use to dismiss the suggestion of scaling rewards more than anything. Grinding the same mission for hours to get one frame is fine, or the defection event, or many other things. It seems like DE simply do not wish to deal with balancing how scaling rewards would work. If that is the case, they could simply say "we do not want to do it" and be done with it.

 

Personally, I might be inclined to do some endurance runs if there was some benefit in them.

My statements were solely around "this is what DE have said in the past" and "you need to explain why their stance is incorrect". This is the bit most people ignore in terms of scaling rewards. DE has said no, but people do not acknowledge that, or explain what the benefit to DE will be if they can make scaling rewards. [in DE should add scaling threads]

 

I took some time from this and really all I have to say is......the customer is always right. I think that was the saying but it could be "let the company be lazy and do less for the overall community and cater to just one portion" 

You just roll over because they said its so when we are the ones that make this game go on. Just like any business. Fight for what for want....who cares if they've said no 1000 times you are the customer which means you are the core of keeping the business alive. Use that voice as such we aren't asking for anything but what makes sense. We aren't asking for the stars just the moon.  

You say you might be inclined to do some endurance runs but yet you come in here just taking a dump on a post about issues that need to be addressed to make them possibly in your interest. Think about that....

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