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Disposition update - please reconsider


(PSN)snkhuong
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DE will shoot themselves in the foot if they nerf disposition. Lots of players (especially vets) would quit. No one would want to buy plat to invest in rivens anymore = less money for DE. The game is getting more dead everyday due to lack of content - killing a portion of the game's fan base is the last thing they want to do. 

A lot of vets are still playing because rivens are end game for them. 

People that want to see disposition nerfed tend to be:

1. New players that don't have good rivens and jealous of some MR 20 who have a collection of good rivens

2. People who don't know how to earn plat in game, and/or not willing to buy plat with real money

New players will eventually become a vet and run out of content, and they will turn to rivens for end game content, so rivens should be an incentive to keep them grinding. 

Type 2 player are not beneficial to the game because they don't support DE with real money, and all they do is whining in clan chat about how bad rivens are. Now think about it, do you really want to upset a big portion of WF's fans just to please these types of players ?

In every decision that DE makes, they have to choose between one type of player while pissing off the others. I think it's pretty obvious who they don't want to piss off in this case.

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No a dispo change is needed and future follow ups on it are aswell. Those that have traded for their rivens only have themselves to blame, they are playing an online game that they fully know will have the possibility to change along with them also ignoring the simple stated words that disposition may change over time.

It isnt on DE if people have decided to ignore the simple facts presented to them. The game would probably be better off without those players that are so self entitled to begin with.

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20 minutes ago, (PS4)snkhuong said:

1. New players that don't have good rivens and jealous of some MR 20 who have a collection of good rivens

2. People who don't know how to earn plat in game, and/or not willing to buy plat with real money

1. I have played for about 3.5k hours over various accounts and have MR25 and 19 on the highest two

2. Don't know how to make plat? I made about 160k plat in trades without Rivens.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)snkhuong said:

A lot of vets are still playing because rivens are end game for them. 

Your Forumsaccount was created in May 2018 and you have 43 posts. Imo you are not a vet and you also don't have empiric numbers like DE. The are a growing company well aware of what will come

 

edit: If it wasn't clear enough: I am 100% pro Dispo update and I don't care how DE will handle it...at least it will be balanced

edit2: chill your base man. This is too toxic for me...I'm already out

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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1 minute ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

1. I have played for about 3.5k hours over various accounts and have MR25 and 19 on the highest two and you point is ?

2. Don't know how to make plat? I made about 160k plat in trades without Rivens. you're such a cool guy. You're such a cool guy !!! I never said people make plat through rivens though. I said people BUY rivens with plat.

Your Forumsaccount was created in May 2018 and you have 43 posts. Imo you are not a vet and you also don't have empiric numbers like DE. The are a growing company well aware of what will come 1. I never said I'm a vet or boasting that I'm a vet like someone here. 2. If DE knows everything, what's the point of this feedback section then ??

 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

The nerf to very strong weapons with dispo 5 is ok but if they will nerf the dispo of weapons with 3 dispo i will join the sh1tstorm without doubts.

IIRC, new weapons get 3 dispo, and some of them will probably/have to be nerfed because they are popular now *looks at arca plasmor*.

-----

As someone who rolled over 90 rivens into decent stats for personal use, I'm totally pro disposition balance. It's overdue.

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Rivens have the importance that requires them to remain, but lack the impact that prohibits them to change.

The riven market will surely take a dip because of the newfound uncertainty and with the current prices that would be a positive change.

After all, 1k plat is 50 USD.

 

That said: I'm MR20 and have some decent rivens, that doesn't change the fact that after a disposition change I'll still be using my op weapons, but the low tier ones may actually become viable, adding diversity, improving replay-ability in essence, making the game more fun.

 

Earning plat is obvious, there is no hidden knowledge. It's that some people have enough of trading in their real life as is.

Currently buying rivens with real money is foolish with those prices. I buy plat monthly, because I can't be bothered to trade, but I am not about to use it all on an item, which offers nothing in terms of changing gameplay like a frame or a weapon can.

The only people who don't want to see a change are those who feel a sense of superiority for an electronic score card with no real life use.

 

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The entire stated point of Riven mods was giving DE an easy knob to balance stuff. People that didn't see this coming only have themselves to blame. DE explicitly stated Riven disposition would be revisited at every opportunity, you can hardly blame them if people choose to ignore what they say...

Arguably they ought to have tweaked it much sooner and much more often so we wouldn't have had those ridiculous prices, but what's done is done.

Edited by marelooke
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51 minutes ago, (PS4)snkhuong said:

People that want to see disposition nerfed tend to be:

1. New players that don't have good rivens and jealous of some MR 20 who have a collection of good rivens

2. People who don't know how to earn plat in game, and/or not willing to buy plat with real money

You're purposefully ignoring a few things (Such as bad/unpopular weapons with a 1 or 2 dispo potentially getting buffed) to push your narrative of "Only two type of people want this!!!!" and ignoring a pretty sizable third:
3.  People who want some sense of balance where already strong/popular weapons get a lower disposition than weak/unpopular weapons.
After all the stated purpose of riven dispo was to give higher disposition to weak/unpopular weapons and a lower dispo to powerful/popular weapons to encourage people to use the weak/unpopular weapons by giving them a boost.
And so far the dispo needs to be revisited to follow said purpose as its not doing its job at the current levels.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)snkhuong said:

A lot of vets are still playing because rivens are end game for them.

A vet that needs a riven is probably not much of a vet.

The way I see it, vets tend to enjoy the riven game because of how it allows them to play around with a wide variety of weapons that otherwise would be pretty weak. It gives them something new to do and explore.

Turns out that is actually an argument in favour of disposition revision IMHO.

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I hope people realize that if the update does happen, and powerful weapons dispositions get nerfed, weaker/other weapons dispositions will inherently/necessarily be buffed. Unless DE is using a more illogical/amazing model than I can imagine, they have to have a moving point as their placeholder weapon for the exact/perfect 3/5 disposition level. 

As usage stats change, the middle will change as well, and weapons will rise and fall along that ladder, relatively.

My point is that, even if the dispositions change, veterans will probably flock to the newest weapon which just got a huge buff via disposition. Most of these veterans have plat and time to spare anyway, and would love the chance to try out new builds on otherwise crappy weapons. 

As for the plat market, by the exact same logic it would be just fine. There would be a shift in value for sure, but eventually it would re-equilibriate around a different set of valuable weapon rivens. All the other things ppl buy and sell would buffer that. 

Really there would be no major lasting change. And it would just happen again and again. Rivens were meant to balance the games weaker weapons with the strongest ones. People investing ridic amounts of plat in some of these strongest weapon rivens were opposing the philosophy in the first place. Not say this was a punishment, but it was inevitable. 

Edit: yes ppl do realize that 🙂

 

Edited by (PS4)negativ21
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1 hour ago, (PS4)snkhuong said:

DE will shoot themselves in the foot if they nerf disposition. Lots of players (especially vets) would quit. No one would want to buy plat to invest in rivens anymore = less money for DE. The game is getting more dead everyday due to lack of content - killing a portion of the game's fan base is the last thing they want to do. 

A lot of vets are still playing because rivens are end game for them. 

Dont use us Veterans as excuse for the Devs not balancing out the game. We arent here because Rivens are End-game, we are here because we support The Game, The Devs, The Development and we have invested too much Time and Resources to simply toss aside.

If some Weapon`s disposition is not matching with its performance, it has to be balanced out, either a Nerf or Buff.

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Dispositions were a mistake. Change my mind. If every weapon were around a 1.00 disposition and rivens not being treated as bandaids to fix weak/less used weapons, we wouldn't have any problems or need to change things up and we wouldn't end up with op weapons getting even more op stats or nerfed weapons getting uselessly low stats.

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They need to balance rivens,  but the way they do also needs a look at.  Just going by popularity is the whole reason why some really strong guns also have high disposition while weaker but more popular ones are stuck on 1-3. Pyranna for example,  pre-priming the rivens still made the gun god teir for what it did,  now its doubley true.  And yea im one of those vets with a decent collection,  but id still happily see them balanced it it was done for the right reasons

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Rivens should modify base weapon stats. This would help actually bump up the weapons that need rivens to be competitive rather then serving as a useless bandaid due to a weapon’s lacking stats. 

Im also of the opinion that DE needs to ditch the dynamic disposition based on popularity. No one buys rivens so they can watch the stats become weaker every week/month. Instead I suggest a static disposition based on MR, taking into account weapon characteristics like aoe and punch-through .

But yeah rivens need a rebalance/rework. The current situation is an issue even DE has acknowledged they dropped the ball on.

Edited by OmegaZero633
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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No a dispo change is needed and future follow ups on it are aswell. Those that have traded for their rivens only have themselves to blame, they are playing an online game that they fully know will have the possibility to change along with them also ignoring the simple stated words that disposition may change over time.

It isnt on DE if people have decided to ignore the simple facts presented to them. The game would probably be better off without those players that are so self entitled to begin with.

It's easy to say this when you did not spend large amounts of plats with Rivens.

Edited by Peter
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52 minutes ago, Peter said:

It's easy to say this when you did not spend large amounts of plats with Rivens.

It is easy to say it if you have the slightest common sense when it comes to online games

I mean I've played since october or something last year and I knew the from the second that I started to get into rivens what to expect from them. It took me a whooping 10 seconds (if even that) to find out about possible disposition changes in the futur. This info being ontop of common online gaming sense, something that everyone should have.

DE should not care about whales that lack that sense and want to buy their way to power. I've been there and seen it among some of my friends in games such as D3. Blowing their gold on stats that will obviously change and then exactly that is what happens and they get mad. And this is even after people have informed them and given hints that they should be careful.

So if you dont have common sense, well that sucks for you, the rest of us shouldnt suffer for it by being stuck with a system that is poorly balanced.

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35 minutes ago, Peter said:

It's easy to say this when you did not spend large amounts of plats with Rivens.

DE said from the beginning that dispositions were supposed to change, and that changes would be retroactive. Anyone who sinks tens of thousands of plat into unstable items has only themselves to blame.

Is that easier for me to say when I have spent < 3k total on my preferred Rivens? Yeah, for sure. That doesn't make me wrong though. Risky purchases are risky purchases; end of story.

---

Also can anyone point to where DE announced an upcoming Disposition update? I looked and didn't find anything.

IMO basing Disposition off of popularity was a terrible decision. Dispositions should have been based off of weapon stats from Day 1, and only get changed when a weapon is buffed/nerfed.

Dispositions should also be weapon specific, and implemented with multipliers like RoF mods on bows. For example (numbers examples only):

Nikana: 1x stats

Dragon Nikana: 0.6x stats

Nikana Prime: 0.5x stats

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They absolutely need to be balanced on a per weapon basis, according to that weapons overall base power, including secondary stats. "Popularity" is too arbitrary. But at the same time, DE has obviously been releasing new/ primed variants of weapons with high dispositions to rake in plat on top of prime releases. Gram Prime, Tiberon Prime and even Prisma Twin Gremlins come to mind. Those releases fly in the face of the whole "We hope they'll cause people to use weapons they've forgotten about." statement. People have every right to be annoyed with that. The only weapon I can think of matching that statement is the Kohm, since it was clunky and fell off a cliff damage wise at higher levels. Being able to roll a decent amount of status with any other good positive is/ maybe was one of the only instances of rivens lining up with their "intended" goal. And because of that, I personally haven't bought, sold or spent plat on slots for them, simply out of principle.

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17 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

DE said from the beginning that dispositions were supposed to change, and that changes would be retroactive. Anyone who sinks tens of thousands of plat into unstable items has only themselves to blame.

Is that easier for me to say when I have spent < 3k total on my preferred Rivens? Yeah, for sure. That doesn't make me wrong though. Risky purchases are risky purchases; end of story.

---

Also can anyone point to where DE announced an upcoming Disposition update? I looked and didn't find anything.

IMO basing Disposition off of popularity was a terrible decision. Dispositions should have been based off of weapon stats from Day 1, and only get changed when a weapon is buffed/nerfed.

Dispositions should also be weapon specific, and implemented with multipliers like RoF mods on bows. For example (numbers examples only):

Nikana: 1x stats

Dragon Nikana: 0.6x stats

Nikana Prime: 0.5x stats

There's been no official confirmation of a disposition update, other than a tweet from Steve saying that they dropped the ball of rivens and will fix it.

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4 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Ah, ok. That's kinda disappointing; I was hoping for some interesting material to read.

Yeah, I don't really expect anything being done about it widespread until after Railjack at least, unless they're gonna stealth change them with Fortuna. At least melee dispositions will change with 3.0.

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