Most Powerful warframes lorewise

[xxswatelitexx]

On 2018-11-01 at 8:24 PM, Onyxeagle171 said:

as above, we are not talking primes and limbo does not have 'total time manipulating powers' like people tried pushing in past discussions 🙂

I would go 

gara or revenant- gara killed a sentient the same power of hunhow, and revenant because he has the power of a eiolodon

Innaros was known as the Golden God and defended an Entire Planet.

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Maybe if you had lead with this we wouldn't have wasted two pages

I mean I personally flat-out believe that it's actually a script mistake, or maybe a hint that Ballas was one of those "can plan things three thousand years in advance" types, but it's literally the best evidence you have presented in two real-life days. WAY better than arguing with me about subtext

I'm not replying to the Umbra debate any further. I have my beliefs that you think are worthless fanon, you have your beliefs that I think are based in script errors and justified by ignoring subtext. To debate further is just going to make us angry. I hope you have a nice Wednesday! There's supposed to be a new Doom Eternal trailer out by now :)

What @Loza03mentions isnt the only thing that shows it is faaaar down the line after the first frame. Ballas also says straight up that what was intercepted was his plans for defection with lines such as these.

"Yet you couldn't understand why I'd give my secrets to our enemy. How could I betray my own kind?"

And

"You thought you could out-play me? I've had lifetimes to plan my defection. You spied on me, intercepted my communications."

Not to mention that Ordis reacts to a transference bolt being involved, which is a tool for the tenno to control frames, which just wasnt part of the first which the Orokin tried a bunch of other things on in order to control them after they went mad. Ballas even mentions this when talking to the unknown Dax. Prior to going mad they were just assumed to be upgraded soldiers, just as Ballas says in The Sacrifice in his communication with Hunhow.

Edited March 18, 2021 by SneakyErvin

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

What @Loza03mentions isnt the only thing that shows it is faaaar down the line after the first frame. Ballas also says straight up that what was intercepted was his plans for defection with lines such as these.

"Yet you couldn't understand why I'd give my secrets to our enemy. How could I betray my own kind?"

And

"You thought you could out-play me? I've had lifetimes to plan my defection. You spied on me, intercepted my communications."

Not to mention that Ordis reacts to a transference bolt being involved, which is a tool for the tenno to control frames, which just wasnt part of the first which the Orokin tried a bunch of other things on in order to control them after they went mad. Ballas even mentions this when talking to the unknown Dax. Prior to going mad they were just assumed to be upgraded soldiers, just as Ballas says in The Sacrifice in his communication with Hunhow.

I already discussed the transmission. Ballas clearly states he sent more than one transmission. One early in the war, gets intercepted by Dax, Dax gets turned into first Warframe, becomes Umbra. Ballas is more careful with subsequent transmissions

As for the transference bolt, that works against you. Ordia specifically states it isn't a standard issue one. In fact it doesn't even seem to be one at all, just a similar machine that your Z-kid jury-rigs to function as one

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

I already discussed the transmission. Ballas clearly states he sent more than one transmission. One early in the war, gets intercepted by Dax, Dax gets turned into first Warframe, becomes Umbra. Ballas is more careful with subsequent transmissions

As for the transference bolt, that works against you. Ordia specifically states it isn't a standard issue one. In fact it doesn't even seem to be one at all, just a similar machine that your Z-kid jury-rigs to function as one

Ballas says that he is created for the tenno. The tenno were not a thing when the first frame(s) was created, they didnt come into the picture until after their effect on the frames was discovered by accident while Davis and the other scientist flees from the rampaging Rhino.

"But you won't have to imagine. A lovingly cultured Infestation swarms within your blood. Your transformation has begun, reshaping you into a sacred surrogate of the unholy Tenno... A Warframe with but a Single. Burning. Memory. It is... a miracle!"

And when you take into account the convo in the Rhino story the scientists mentioned they've discarded many prior to it.

Ballas thoughts of betrayal also never occured until after Margulis was executed, which was after the first frames were ever created. And not until after her death did the transference project get completed by Ballas.

[TARINunit9]

47 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Ballas says that he is created for the tenno. The tenno were not a thing when the first frame(s) was created, they didnt come into the picture until after their effect on the frames was discovered by accident while Davis and the other scientist flees from the rampaging Rhino.

"But you won't have to imagine. A lovingly cultured Infestation swarms within your blood. Your transformation has begun, reshaping you into a sacred surrogate of the unholy Tenno... A Warframe with but a Single. Burning. Memory. It is... a miracle!"

And when you take into account the convo in the Rhino story the scientists mentioned they've discarded many prior to it.

Ballas thoughts of betrayal also never occured until after Margulis was executed, which was after the first frames were ever created. And not until after her death did the transference project get completed by Ballas.

You are far from the first person to try and convince me with that line. It's a giant pile of contradictions and I am done in this thread unless/until the devs clear them up:

Margulis died before the Old War, and she's alive during the creation of Titania. Ballas says that Excalibur Umbra is being created for the Tenno, who don't even exist yet. Abusing Warframes doesn't work and the Orokin stopped trying, yet Ballas continues to waste his time abusing Excalibur Umbra (instead of just pulling the Dax's life support and killing him). Ballas has his transmissions to Hunhow intercepted by a Dax, years before they even happened.

For me, the cleanest way to clear up these contradictions is to make Excalibur Umbra the first bio-drone/Warframe ever, among other things. I am done debating this, I am going to play Doom Eternal while I wait for 29.10. I hope you have a nice day as well :)

Edited March 18, 2021 by TARINunit9

[SneakyErvin]

25 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

You are far from the first person to try and convince me with that line. It's a giant pile of contradictions and I am done in this thread unless/until the devs clear them up:

Margulis died before the Old War, and she's alive during the creation of Titania. Ballas says that Excalibur Umbra is being created for the Tenno, who don't even exist yet. Abusing Warframes doesn't work and the Orokin stopped trying, yet Ballas continues to waste his time abusing Excalibur Umbra (instead of just pulling the Dax's life support and killing him). Ballas has his transmissions to Hunhow intercepted by a Dax, years before they even happened.

For me, the cleanest way to clear up these contradictions is to make Excalibur Umbra the first bio-drone/Warframe ever, among other things. I am done debating this, I am going to play Doom Eternal while I wait for 29.10. I hope you have a nice day as well :)

Where do you get the idea from that Margulis died before the old war?

And dont you get why Ballas does what he does with the Dax? It is so he can torment him with the memory of killing his son for eternity. That is why he uses the old method, that is why he uses a special tranference bolt, which both he and Ordis points out. He doesnt want the old man dead, he wants him to suffer.

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

limbo

[Galuf]

In an universe at peace, I think the most usefull one would be Titania. Not only groves could produce crop, but it could also produce psychoactive products and flip the civilisation in an endless power flower era where robots handle kids and everything is about eating gluten free, getting high and making love to others or even yourself.

So yeah, imho Titania is the goat.

[JimmuTanno88]

30 minutes ago, Galuf said:

So yeah, imho Titania is the goat.

wouldn't that be oberon though?

[(PSN)babyspydatek]

Limbo

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

I think it's safe to say this assume it's Umbra Excalibur given that there's mainline narrative surrounding him.

And that there's basically 4 different variants surrounding Excalibur if you include Stalker in the mix considering his role in the game.

And there's a likelihood Umbra Excal is still going to be apart of that mainline narrative considering how The Sacrifice concluded. 

It's not that I'm discrediting the other opinions of this debate and the rest of the roster in the game as we do have all our own opinions on which frame is best but I'm looking at this from the perspective in lore. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

I think it's safe to say this assume it's Umbra Excalibur given that there's mainline narrative surrounding him.

It's not that I'm discrediting the other opinions of this debate and the rest of the roster in the game as we do have all our own opinions on which frame is best but I'm looking at this from the perspective in lore. 

He might be most important, and might have plot armor, but he's far from most powerful. He's a magic swordfighter in a cast including, but not limited to, living flamethrowers, walking antimatter reactors, dimensional controllers, plague mistresses, and natural disasters on legs

[Leqesai]

After Call of the Tempestari I'd argue Sevagoth is probably one of the most powerful Warframes. 

Umbra Excal is probably top of the list though.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Just now, Leqesai said:

After Call of the Tempestari I'd argue Sevagoth is probably one of the most powerful Warframes. 

Umbra Excal is probably top of the list though.

There's definitely an argument to be made for that too you could really toss in any warframe that had an awesome quest though (My personal favorite is still Chains of Harrow, COTT is a close second) 

But Excalibur is basically Warframes "Goku", there's a whole bunch of different versions that fall in different scales of power. 

Many arguments can be made lorewose but when Two Excalibur type frames are of main focus in two of the biggest quests in the game, I think that's the answer. 

[Leqesai]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

There's definitely an argument to be made for that too you could really toss in any warframe that had an awesome quest though (My personal favorite is still Chains of Harrow, COTT is a close second) 

But Excalibur is basically Warframes "Goku", there's a whole bunch of different versions that fall in different scales of power. 

Many arguments can be made lorewose but when Two Excalibur type frames are of main focus in two of the biggest quests in the game, I think that's the answer. 

Totally agree.

[TARINunit9]

26 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Umbra Excal is probably top of the list though.

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

But Excalibur is basically Warframes "Goku", there's a whole bunch of different versions that fall in different scales of power. 

Many arguments can be made lorewose but when Two Excalibur type frames are of main focus in two of the biggest quests in the game, I think that's the answer. 

May I ask how? As far as I can tell, Excalibur is the focus of the quests because he's one of the WEAKEST, and thus the easiest to put in a story without the audience realizing "oh he could actually just kill every villain with a single attack". He's the Captain America of the Warframes -- he's the leader because he's the weakest, and thus the best at compensating for it

[Venarge]

Am 2.11.2018 um 01:38 schrieb Limbo_Darkness:

Well Limbo does control an entire plane in between the void and reality, so he is kinda one of the most powerful beings in Warframe.

I would say this as well. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

48 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

May I ask how? As far as I can tell, Excalibur is the focus of the quests because he's one of the WEAKEST, and thus the easiest to put in a story without the audience realizing "oh he could actually just kill every villain with a single attack". He's the Captain America of the Warframes -- he's the leader because he's the weakest, and thus the best at compensating for it.

How? I think it's pretty simple to explain considering how the community reacted Umbral Excalibur was revealed in the first place, or the fact he was that one warframe everyone wanted to get his/her hands on the Minute they saw any form of concept art around and until we finally did: the community could not stop taking about.

Or in the Second Dream where the Stalker was also really prevelant, another Excalibur variant that although now gameplay wise is probably one of the weakest in game he really should be among it's strongest.

Or the fact that the Umbral Mods also exist which he was the first Warframe to be completely built around in the first place. And where Umbra forma is also becoming increasingly important for making some crazy builds in game which Umbral Excal also came with. 

So from a lore perspective yeah I'd say that still makes him the strongest as in the title this is not related around actual gameplay. 

So honestly I'd still say he is because he's still the only Umbra frame we have. So again, approaching this from a lore perspective:

The Umbra frames would be the strongest from this perspective.

Edited April 19, 2021 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

How? I think it's pretty simple to explain considering how the community reacted Umbral Excalibur was revealed in the first place, or the fact he was that one warframe everyone wanted to get his/her hands on the Minute they saw any form of concept art around and until we finally did: the community could not stop taking about.

Yeah, that's not an indicator of strength. That's an indicator of anticipation. We didn't think that Excalibur Umbra would be stronger than Nova, either in game or in lore (seriously, have you read her Leverian? She's an exploding sun in human form), we just wanted the storyline to actually advance for once in DE's life.

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

So honestly I'd still say he is because he's still the only Umbra frame we have. So again, approaching this from a lore perspective:

The Umbra frames would be the strongest from that perspective.

This makes literally no sense, there is no logic in that. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

This makes literally no sense, there is no logic in that. 

How? If we're talking lorewise and Umbra was an entire class of Warframe altogether how would they not outclass the others that are not? 

I'm talking purely from a lorewise perspective, that should also include the Umbral mods he came with and the forma needed to make best use of them because that effects any frames overall power level.

Which makes any Umbra frame created as a whole stronger if it's the highest class of warframe that exists. 

If we got a completely different Warframe that received the Umbra class treatment (Limbo, Nyx or others being considered as the most powerful) this choice wouldn't be as debatle but considering that it was Excalibur it is.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2018-11-01 at 7:24 PM, Onyxeagle171 said:

as above, we are not talking primes and limbo does not have 'total time manipulating powers' like people tried pushing in past discussions 🙂

I would go 

gara or revenant- gara killed a sentient the same power of hunhow, and revenant because he has the power of a eiolodon

Pfft, Revenant probably wishes he actually did have the powers of an eidolon.

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

How? If we're talking lorewise and Umbra was an entire class of Warframe altogether how would they not outclass the others that are not? 

Because they aren't any stronger. Excalibur Umbra hasn't actually demonstrated any greater power

It's not even clear if mods actually exist in the lore (the writers circa 2015 treated them as a joke, and they don't factor into modern Leverian lore at all) so your Umbral Mods theory is shaky at best.

Excalibur as a whole is, as I said a few comments ago, one of the physically weakest frames  -- in the same way Captain America and Falcon are the physically weakest Avengers. Do you honestly think Excalibur, even Excal Umbra, compares to someone like Saryn? (wipes out entire cities with plagues) Nova? (holds enough antimatter to restart Orokin reactors by snapping her fingers) Even Gauss? (is fast enough to outrun explosions) Baruuk? (Serene Storm is stronger than Exalted Blade, but costs no energy. It's not a power, it's just his normal hands)

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because they aren't any stronger. Excalibur Umbra hasn't actually demonstrated any greater power

It's not even clear if mods actually exist in the lore (the writers circa 2015 treated them as a joke, and they don't factor into modern Leverian lore at all) so your Umbral Mods theory is shaky at best.

Excalibur as a whole is, as I said a few comments ago, one of the physically weakest frames  -- in the same way Captain America and Falcon are the physically weakest Avengers. Do you honestly think Excalibur, even Excal Umbra, compares to someone like Saryn? (wipes out entire cities with plagues) Nova? (holds enough antimatter to restart Orokin reactors by snapping her fingers) Even Gauss? (is fast enough to outrun explosions) Baruuk? (Serene Storm is stronger than Exalted Blade, but costs no energy. It's not a power, it's just his normal hands)

The ability to function without an operator is an indicator of power....

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

The ability to function without an operator is an indicator of power....

Even if that was exclusive to Umbras (because it isn't, remember Second Dream) it's not very much power

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Even if that was exclusive to Umbras (because it isn't, remember Second Dream) it's not very much power

As with most of the content in this topic this is subjective based on whatever arbitrary metric you are using to evaluate power.

I mean, one could make a fairly compelling argument that being able to move independent of an operator is markedly more powerful than any other warframe. If your metric is big-gun power then sure sentience doesn't really compare, but there is no consistent metric in this debate.