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why lore wise, the orokin's creation of warframe was a DUMB move


Leoli12138
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so, while i was showering tonight, this thought came on top of my head. During the last part of the once awake quest, lotus mentioned the objective we are defending to be a "void energy cascade bomb". thus asserting the fact that in warframe universe, void energy can be harnessed and weaponized(such as a bomb) to a extent by non-tennos. WHICH BRING US THE QUESTION: if we can do it now, then orokin, being the source of all fancy technology in the current warframe universe, should be able do it back then, during the old war. So if orokin can make void energy into bombs, which we know is like bane of sentients, why do they still bother to create warframe and start a conventional war, which almost resulted in their ass being kicked. (sure making one of these bombs could be a pain in the ass, but still, orokin is a super-high-tech empire with a entire solar system's worth of resource and human(or machine) capital at it's disposal, it would make sense for it to focus all of it's resources into the "making bombs, nuking sentients, repeat if necessary "strat. )

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Same reason we still use ground and specialist units in todays 'wars' when we could just use an atom bomb I guess.

But more likely because a void energy bomb would be entirely mechanical and thus the sentients could assimilate it and take control. Warframes were designed to be bio-mechanical to prevent them from being assimilated by the sentients.

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1 hour ago, More-L said:

 todays 'wars'

Gotta love those quotation marks.

Are you implying that local conflicts are any less war-y than global ones of the past and are nothing to get panties in a bunch about? Or that wars without an official declaration aren't 'real' wars? People get killed or get their lives royally @#$ed up, along with material damage, all the same.

Not cool, dood, totally not cool.

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pretty much everything the Orokin did was dumb;

- a bunch of kids come back from some made void journey mentally unstable and with ridiculous powers? outcast them and treat them like dirt, that totally won't bite us in the a$$ later on..

- worried about Sentients coming back? make it so they become sterile if they enter the void. don't worry, they won't even try to come back. and if they did, they totally wouldn't be super annoyed when they realize we deliberately created them that way.

- Sentients become a problem? lets create a new bio-weapon, and not have any sort of backup plan or put any safety protocols in place whatsoever. it totally won't break out and start killing everyone.

seriously, the Orokin were all of the most dangerous aspects of humanity rolled into one: narrow minded, selfish, greedy and irresponsible, with a terrible superiority complex and an overwhelming amount of Narcissism. so concerned with their golden cities, yet they just ended up turning them into opulent ruins. thank goodness the empire is gone.

 

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32 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

Gotta love those quotation marks.

Are you implying that local conflicts are any less war-y than global ones of the past and are nothing to get panties in a bunch about? Or that wars without an official declaration aren't 'real' wars? People get killed or get their lives royally @#$ed up, along with material damage, all the same.

Not cool, dood, totally not cool.

Localized conflicts != war. There are conditions to be meet if a conflict is converted into war. War is not something natural, and as all things non natural, it needs an official declaration. 

Now stop being an SJW and let us discuss the matter at hand. If you don't like it, leave.

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57 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

Gotta love those quotation marks.

Are you implying that local conflicts are any less war-y than global ones of the past and are nothing to get panties in a bunch about? Or that wars without an official declaration aren't 'real' wars? People get killed or get their lives royally @#$ed up, along with material damage, all the same.

Not cool, dood, totally not cool.

In real wars, the objective is to crush the enemy and win, not play world police.

We've been pretty much playing world police since the Gulf War.  The next time we declare "war" on some nation in the Middle East, it better be to bulldoze whatever government is in place and erect something not run by a Shiite, Triite, or whatever the hell branch of Islam will inevitably condemn all others to death.  Tired of throwing lives away only for the world's litter box to devolve into another messy cat fight over religion not even a decade later

Edited by Littleman88
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1 hour ago, WindigoTG said:

Gotta love those quotation marks.

Are you implying that local conflicts are any less war-y than global ones of the past and are nothing to get panties in a bunch about? Or that wars without an official declaration aren't 'real' wars? People get killed or get their lives royally @#$ed up, along with material damage, all the same.

Not cool, dood, totally not cool.

As I am no expert on the matter, I used the quotation marks to signify a broader description of what some would consider the word "war" applies to. You completely missed the intention behind the sentence.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

pretty much everything the Orokin did was dumb;

- a bunch of kids come back from some made void journey mentally unstable and with ridiculous powers? outcast them and treat them like dirt, that totally won't bite us in the a$$ later on..

- worried about Sentients coming back? make it so they become sterile if they enter the void. don't worry, they won't even try to come back. and if they did, they totally wouldn't be super annoyed when they realize we deliberately created them that way.

- Sentients become a problem? lets create a new bio-weapon, and not have any sort of backup plan or put any safety protocols in place whatsoever. it totally won't break out and start killing everyone.

seriously, the Orokin were all of the most dangerous aspects of humanity rolled into one: narrow minded, selfish, greedy and irresponsible, with a terrible superiority complex and an overwhelming amount of Narcissism. so concerned with their golden cities, yet they just ended up turning them into opulent ruins. thank goodness the empire is gone.

 

A surprisingly accurate reflection of humanity IRL though. :wink:

Basically a lot of cautionary tales about "just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should" and also not thinking things through to their logical conclusions.

 

Specifically regarding the warframes, Ballas strikes me as a Roman emperor / mad scientist hybrid. He's got (or had) that classic arrogance, ruthlessness and belief he could do as he pleased without any consequences, coupled with a desire to push his scientific knowledge as far as he could, without caring about the potential dangers.

I guess the rest of the Orokin were just panicked enough over the Sentients that they were happy to give him free reign.

 

In answer to OP's question, I'm guessing these "void bombs" were a type of WMD...in which case they could only feasibly be used well away from populated areas. So even if they had the knowledge to build them, maybe they just couldn't bring themselves to kill large numbers of their own people in the process?

 

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Honestly? In-game lore is probably going to reveal at some point that using a reality-ending, reality-BENDING WMD isn’t in the Orokin’s best interest for survival, especially when you look at what Void fissures are doing to any living thing they touch.  The Void is where science and reason fail...meaning using them creates a Zariman situation by tearing holes in the fabric of reality.

The real reason is that a universe needs to exist where space ninjas are prominent.  Playing as a WMD would be boring 😆.

If the Orokin were smart, they would have tapped Limbo’s power and created Rift Bombs.

Maybe they tried and the scientists involve repeatedly disappeared...forever 😏.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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12 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

If the Orokin were smart, they would have tapped Limbo’s power and created Rift Bombs.

Maybe they tried and the scientists involve repeatedly disappeared...forever 😏.

More likely, Limbo was made from the scientist that developed Rift Technology, thus cancelling that option forever. :tongue:

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52 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

 maybe they just couldn't bring themselves to kill large numbers of their own people in the process?

they killed people for the most trivial things

read the crewman synthesis. they execute someone because they didn't like the project that person proposed.

they don't care in any way for other lives

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7 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

pretty much everything the Orokin did was dumb;

- a bunch of kids come back from some made void journey mentally unstable and with ridiculous powers? outcast them and treat them like dirt, that totally won't bite us in the a$$ later on..

- worried about Sentients coming back? make it so they become sterile if they enter the void. don't worry, they won't even try to come back. and if they did, they totally wouldn't be super annoyed when they realize we deliberately created them that way.

- Sentients become a problem? lets create a new bio-weapon, and not have any sort of backup plan or put any safety protocols in place whatsoever. it totally won't break out and start killing everyone.

seriously, the Orokin were all of the most dangerous aspects of humanity rolled into one: narrow minded, selfish, greedy and irresponsible, with a terrible superiority complex and an overwhelming amount of Narcissism. so concerned with their golden cities, yet they just ended up turning them into opulent ruins. thank goodness the empire is gone.

 

For all we know... 

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3 hours ago, Helch0rn said:

they killed people for the most trivial things

read the crewman synthesis. they execute someone because they didn't like the project that person proposed.

they don't care in any way for other lives

There's a big difference between killing individuals and hundreds / thousands of people.

 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

pretty much everything the Orokin did was dumb;

- a bunch of kids come back from some made void journey mentally unstable and with ridiculous powers? outcast them and treat them like dirt, that totally won't bite us in the a$$ later on..

- worried about Sentients coming back? make it so they become sterile if they enter the void. don't worry, they won't even try to come back. and if they did, they totally wouldn't be super annoyed when they realize we deliberately created them that way.

- Sentients become a problem? lets create a new bio-weapon, and not have any sort of backup plan or put any safety protocols in place whatsoever. it totally won't break out and start killing everyone.

seriously, the Orokin were all of the most dangerous aspects of humanity rolled into one: narrow minded, selfish, greedy and irresponsible, with a terrible superiority complex and an overwhelming amount of Narcissism. so concerned with their golden cities, yet they just ended up turning them into opulent ruins. thank goodness the empire is gone.

 

yeah, and basic create mini version of EVA replica when you can just void nuke sentients to death

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5 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

A surprisingly accurate reflection of humanity IRL though. :wink:

Basically a lot of cautionary tales about "just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should" and also not thinking things through to their logical conclusions.

 

Specifically regarding the warframes, Ballas strikes me as a Roman emperor / mad scientist hybrid. He's got (or had) that classic arrogance, ruthlessness and belief he could do as he pleased without any consequences, coupled with a desire to push his scientific knowledge as far as he could, without caring about the potential dangers.

I guess the rest of the Orokin were just panicked enough over the Sentients that they were happy to give him free reign.

 

In answer to OP's question, I'm guessing these "void bombs" were a type of WMD...in which case they could only feasibly be used well away from populated areas. So even if they had the knowledge to build them, maybe they just couldn't bring themselves to kill large numbers of their own people in the process?

 

i don't think a lot of people would be alive in sentient controlled area though...

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Honestly? In-game lore is probably going to reveal at some point that using a reality-ending, reality-BENDING WMD isn’t in the Orokin’s best interest for survival, especially when you look at what Void fissures are doing to any living thing they touch.  The Void is where science and reason fail...meaning using them creates a Zariman situation by tearing holes in the fabric of reality.

The real reason is that a universe needs to exist where space ninjas are prominent.  Playing as a WMD would be boring 😆.

If the Orokin were smart, they would have tapped Limbo’s power and created Rift Bombs.

Maybe they tried and the scientists involve repeatedly disappeared...forever 😏.

well I do love to play as a space ninja(Or space berserker?) and yes i do understand the warframe needs to have it's place in the lore. However the devs really made a strange choice to include a void energy bomb in the lore(or actual gameplay) which completely stultifies the use of tenno. 

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A few possibilities...

One, the reaction is very slow, and thus wouldn't be usable in most fights due to mobile targets and the ability to diffuse the bomb.

Two, it might be possible to screen the blast in some way, which the Sentients figured out.

Three, it may send echos into the void, causing an issue similar to nuclear arms' radioactive fallout.

 

7 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

In answer to OP's question, I'm guessing these "void bombs" were a type of WMD...in which case they could only feasibly be used well away from populated areas. So even if they had the knowledge to build them, maybe they just couldn't bring themselves to kill large numbers of their own people in the process?

Please, they'd be salivating at the concept. Have you not been reading your Orokin lore? I mean, hell, their immortality was powered by parading child slaves around, picking their favorites, and then body-jacking them in a way implied to destroy the oro of the person they were bodyjacking.

Edited by Eirshy
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