Harpak Rework

[Grimmstyler]

So i got a riven for Harpak and figure id check out Harpak. Although i like Harpak, it seems more like a tool for Hydroid's [Pilfering Swarm] if anything.. The damage isnt there and the stats seem out of whack.. Just a couple tweaks needed.

 I think Primary should have the Secondarys 25% Crit stats.. Primary fire should have its original Status Chance 17%.. Then the damage could use a buff as well.. Just mod with a Riven for 100% Crit Chance + [Hunter Munitions] for Bleed Damage against armored units..

Being that Harpak is more of a Hydroid tool for [Pilfering Swarm] Secondary Fire should have the 5% Crit Chance (due to [Hunter Munitions] + Multishot [Split Chambe]r + [Vigilante Arnaments]) and a 50% Status Chance with no damage buff needed.. The reason i say 50% Status Chance is because if you use it as just a Hydroid [Pilfering Swarm] tool all youll need is 2 dual stat element mods to get 100% Status to decrease Grineer/Infested armor with Corrosion or Magnetic for Corpus.. Making Tentacles more effective in killing once the enemy is in there grasp..

So really i think there is a lot of missed potential in Harpak.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[taiiat]

we'll just not mention that Harpaks' Primary Fire is extremely competitive with the other Burst Weapons in the game. 
if your reasoning is "everything should be Powercreeped to where Tiberon Prime has Powercreeped to" - meh.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Meh

its fine

just fix the harpoon to actually work again

and fix enemy handling to consider pulling them into bottomless pits as an actual kill, instead of just teleporting them to new coordinates elsewhere in the map.

[Grimmstyler]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

we'll just not mention that Harpaks' Primary Fire is extremely competitive with the other Burst Weapons in the game. 
if your reasoning is "everything should be Powercreeped to where Tiberon Prime has Powercreeped to" - meh.

Not my reasoning.. Really the Primary fire isnt necessary. Primary fire made as a DPS gives the weapon a purpose in using outside of farming with Harpoon really, since theres a limit to amount of Rivens you can own. Lets say you farm with Hydroid for a long period of time, The Primary fire as DPS for when your head for extraction might be useful or even just for gameplay  But really its not necessary cause you can just Parkour to exit..  So Primary fire made as a DPS gives the weapon a purpose in using outside of farming with Harpoon really.

Its just the Status Chance and the Pull Mechanic on the Harpoon thats really useful for [Pilfering Swarm]. The Status Chance on the Harpoon would primarily be for putting a Corrosive or Magnetic proc on the enemy with Multishot mods if you dont have a Riven that -%Puncture to make it Corrosive or Magnetic dominant.

Burst shot with 100% Crit + Multishot + [Hunter Munitions] + Viral? Yea it can take a chunk of damage out of a enemy. But still the projectile flight speed sucks, then projectile flight speed is also effected by moving. Also the Pin effect sucks for Nekros Desecrate.. But as a tip, if theres a Cold Damage proc on death it nulls the Pin effect for Desecration.. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[Grimmstyler]

1 hour ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Meh

its fine

just fix the harpoon to actually work again

and fix enemy handling to consider pulling them into bottomless pits as an actual kill, instead of just teleporting them to new coordinates elsewhere in the map.

Yea ive tested Harpoon in some gameplay.. Enemies within range (like 8m) of pull dont seem to pull in most the time.. Maybe its from moving and shooting?

[NinjaZeku]

4 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

it seems more like a tool for Hydroid's [Pilfering Swarm] if anything

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by that, could you elaborate?

You later mention Secondary Fire as a Status tool, but it has a lower Status chance
than the Primary (not to mention rate of fire), so I'm confused there, as well.

[BTW, if you want a Status weapon that works like Harpak, Paracyst FTW.]

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Grimmstyler said:

Not my reasoning.. Really the Primary fire isnt necessary. Primary fire made as a DPS gives the weapon a purpose in using outside of farming with Harpoon really, since theres a limit to amount of Rivens you can own. Lets say you farm with Hydroid for a long period of time, The Primary fire as DPS for when your head for extraction might be useful or even just for gameplay  But really its not necessary cause you can just Parkour to exit..  So Primary fire made as a DPS gives the weapon a purpose in using outside of farming with Harpoon really.

Its just the Status Chance and the Pull Mechanic on the Harpoon thats really useful for [Pilfering Swarm]. The Status Chance on the Harpoon would primarily be for putting a Corrosive or Magnetic proc on the enemy with Multishot mods if you dont have a Riven that -%Puncture to make it Corrosive or Magnetic dominant.

Burst shot with 100% Crit + Multishot + [Hunter Munitions] + Viral? Yea it can take a chunk of damage out of a enemy. But still the projectile flight speed sucks, then projectile flight speed is also effected by moving. Also the Pin effect sucks for Nekros Desecrate.. But as a tip, if theres a Cold Damage proc on death it nulls the Pin effect for Desecration.. 

that was very long winded without saying much.

if you're only concerned about idle Farming, you're way better off with a Mag carrying an Ignis for applying Status and bringing Enemies into Range of Tentacle Swarm.
if you're looking to actually use the Gun, it outperforms the rest of the Burst Weapons(Sybaris models can hit harder per Burst but Harpak puts out more rounds) but in trade you must be able to hit your Target with it (yno, the universal ,basic Shooter skill).

failing to see anything that doesn't make sense. if you're looking for a highly Status focused Burst Weapon, there are others that are so.

 

if the Weapon has traits that do not pair perfectly with your idle Farming goals - well... there does happen to be several hundred Weapons in the game.

[Sharkgoblin]

The harpak is a mr 7 weapon that you get from market and it got buffed several times. I highly doubt they will buff it again 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

I want to be able to use the harpoon for fishing in plains of eidolon, and maybe the quanta to mine.

[Grimmstyler]

20 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by that, could you elaborate?

You later mention Secondary Fire as a Status tool, but it has a lower Status chance
than the Primary (not to mention rate of fire), so I'm confused there, as well.

[BTW, if you want a Status weapon that works like Harpak, Paracyst FTW.]

Currently Harpak's Secondary Fire is not a Status Tool defined by Status Chance..

The only tool it provides is pulling enemies into [Pilfering Swarm] (which the pull doesnt seem effective most the time)

On 2018-11-02 at 9:51 PM, Grimmstyler said:

Being that Harpak is more of a Hydroid tool for [Pilfering Swarm] Secondary Fire should have the 5% Crit Chance (due to [Hunter Munitions] + Multishot [Split Chambe]r + [Vigilante Arnaments]) and a 50% Status Chance with no damage buff needed.. The reason i say 50% Status Chance is because if you use it as just a Hydroid [Pilfering Swarm] tool all youll need is 2 dual stat element mods to get 100% Status to decrease Grineer/Infested armor with Corrosion or Magnetic for Corpus.. Making Tentacles more effective in killing once the enemy is in there grasp..

 

[Grimmstyler]

20 hours ago, taiiat said:

that was very long winded without saying much.

if you're only concerned about idle Farming, you're way better off with a Mag carrying an Ignis for applying Status and bringing Enemies into Range of Tentacle Swarm.
if you're looking to actually use the Gun, it outperforms the rest of the Burst Weapons(Sybaris models can hit harder per Burst but Harpak puts out more rounds) but in trade you must be able to hit your Target with it (yno, the universal ,basic Shooter skill).

failing to see anything that doesn't make sense. if you're looking for a highly Status focused Burst Weapon, there are others that are so.

 

if the Weapon has traits that do not pair perfectly with your idle Farming goals - well... there does happen to be several hundred Weapons in the game.

Pretty much what im saying is:

Secondary fire should be made low damage Status focused for putting Corrosive/Magnetic Status and pulling enemies into [Pilfering Swarm] without one shotting them..

Primary fire should be made Crit focused just so the weapon can be used outside of just secondary fire (if you decide to use a Riven on it).Yea it would be strong that it is Burst, but with the Projectile Flight Speed you have to be somewhat close and land all 3 consecutive shots.

Then in my opinion, me personally, I wouldnt want to use Harpak's Primary Fire (even if it is a Burst weapon) because of the Flight Projectile Speed, the Pin effect and the gun is just damn ugly.  

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2018-11-03 at 4:37 AM, Ada_Wong_SG said:

I want to be able to use the harpoon for fishing in plains of eidolon, and maybe the quanta to mine.

that would actually be really cool

the quanta is supposed to be a Corpus construction or mining tool anyway right?

[Ada_Wong_SG]

2 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

that would actually be really cool

the quanta is supposed to be a Corpus construction or mining tool anyway right?

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Quanta

"The Quanta is a Corpus mining laser cutter"

I suppose tossing a cube and detonating it would be similar to TNT mining.


https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Harpak

"The Harpak is a harpoon gun"

Given the high capacity and how fast the harpoon is fired straight as opposed to being thrown, the fishing efficiency would be greater.

 

[Grimmstyler]

After giving Harpak some further thought as a Harpoon tool for Hydroid's [Pilfering Swarm], Primary shot should have some kind of explosive rounds mod (for Bolt guns) like [Thunderbolt] to where you can self damage yourself for [Equilibrium].

If anything who cares about the Burst Shot.. Make Harpak Single Shot or Automatic. The real fun and utility is in the Harpoon.

[000l000]

Quarpakk already works as a burst Grineer rifle, Harpak should work as a semi-automatic rifle with punch through on its primary fire since projectiles are already impaired by slow speed. Primary should have perforation and slashing while secondary keeps impact and perforation. Secondary shouldn't have a perforation proc since it already staggers its target - Make it slash instead. I don't see anyone not bleeding after having been shot but a harpoon anyway.

I don't want to feel like i'm using a redundant Quarpakk with a secondary harpoon. Fast firing doesn't suit much a harpoon weapon, and Paracyst is already there to fire burst projectiles.

As i said, semi automatic and additional punch through on primary would make it way more interesting - Burst with slow projectile speed is a waste of ammo and single strong shots with punch through could help with multiple opponents.

Edited November 5, 2018 by 000l000

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

Quarpakk already works as a burst Grineer rifle, Harpak should work as a semi-automatic rifle with punch through on its primary fire since projectiles are already impaired by slow speed. Primary should have perforation and slashing while secondary keeps impact and perforation. Secondary shouldn't have a perforation proc since it already staggers its target - Make it slash instead. I don't see anyone not bleeding after having been shot but a harpoon anyway.

I don't want to feel like i'm using a redundant Quarpakk with a secondary harpoon. Fast firing doesn't suit much a harpoon weapon, and Paracyst is already there to fire burst projectiles.

As i said, semi automatic and additional punch through on primary would make it way more interesting - Burst with slow projectile speed is a waste of ammo and single strong shots with punch through could help with multiple opponents.

I don't think they overlap

Quartakk may be listed as 'burst' but it actually fires all 4 bullets of the burst simultaneously.

it's also much slower. I consider Quartakk to be more of a long range marksmans rifle, like latron or grinlock style weapons.

[000l000]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)haphazardlynamed a dit :

I don't think they overlap

Quartakk may be listed as 'burst' but it actually fires all 4 bullets of the burst simultaneously.

it's also much slower. I consider Quartakk to be more of a long range marksmans rifle, like latron or grinlock style weapons.

Quartakk's four shots are all distinct (all disposed in a square shape if i ain't wrong) and thus makes this weapon really not interesting against small targets and at long range. It's definitely designed as a close/medium range weapon (somewhere between a Grinlock and a shotgun), innate punch through helps with close combat too. Dispersion is minimal for some reasons though but we're far from the initial subject - The Harpak. ^ ^

[Grimmstyler]

7 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Quartakk's four shots are all distinct (all disposed in a square shape if i ain't wrong) and thus makes this weapon really not interesting against small targets and at long range. It's definitely designed as a close/medium range weapon (somewhere between a Grinlock and a shotgun), innate punch through helps with close combat too. Dispersion is minimal for some reasons though but we're far from the initial subject - The Harpak. ^ ^

I have a -100% Impact + 100% Slash Quartakk Riven and since there is 4 simultaneous shots, its slashs the bodies without Ragdolling pretty well for Nekros Desacrate. Its actually a fun gun to use, but slow shoot speed.

But yea, i agree with Harpaks harpoon having a slash damage for bleed damage when dragging into [Pilfering Swarm], it makes it that much easier for enemies to die in the tentacles.

I think the Harpoon needs balancing for Status Chance to put a Corrosive/Magnetic proc on the enemy without 1 shotting them.. Then even a bleed damage build for higher level enemys without 1 shotting them.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[(PSN)negativ21]

On 2018-11-04 at 12:17 AM, Grimmstyler said:

The only tool it provides is pulling enemies into [Pilfering Swarm] (which the pull doesnt seem effective most the time)

You keep saying this, but I don't think this is an intended effect, or even a reliable one. Pilfering swarms killing/farming potential can be  more effectively improved with a good build, and any level where that falls off the harpak will fail anyway. 

[Artekkor]

I think harpak is fine. I used it quiet a bit, it has a decent crit potential (although nothing to wrtie home about) and it gets job done. Although then again burston or tiberon do it even better, and they are hit-scan instead.

Is harpak underpowered? Not really.

Does harpak's power justify slow projectiles? No. If anything the power should be adjusted for that.

[Grimmstyler]

21 hours ago, (PS4)negativ21 said:

You keep saying this, but I don't think this is an intended effect, or even a reliable one. Pilfering swarms killing/farming potential can be  more effectively improved with a good build, and any level where that falls off the harpak will fail anyway. 

Yea, thats true.. Its just a fun way to use Harpak and make some kind of use for the Harpoon.

You could even add [Hush] to Harpak, run around a Spy or Exterminate mission and Harpoon them in for [Covert Lethality]. Id just figure Harpaks Harpoon would probably most used/fun with Hydroid's Tentacles.

[Grimmstyler]

20 hours ago, Artek94 said:

I think harpak is fine. I used it quiet a bit, it has a decent crit potential (although nothing to wrtie home about) and it gets job done. Although then again burston or tiberon do it even better, and they are hit-scan instead.

Is harpak underpowered? Not really.

Does harpak's power justify slow projectiles? No. If anything the power should be adjusted for that.

Harpak wont be touched.. Justification is probably Its not going to be made stronger than Bolter Prime.