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What if reviving had a cost associated to it?


PookieNumnums
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What if it the game consumed a frame every time we revive ourselves? I agree. That seems unreasonable, inhumane, and cruel.

But what if we used specters for that purpose? If we die and have to revive, what if it used a specter as our new transference target?

Is that something that would be a logical way to justify life after death? Essentially, all warframes would be specters, and depending on the tier of specter used (and under the guise of stasis recovery) the specter-frame a la dark sector conflicts would start out with limited ability and as you play the mission the spawn sickness wears off and you regain full functionality. 

It would add a neat aspect to the darker side of the operator x warframe dynamic. Ordis could then show us his clone bank and, like our personal quarters (but using specter loadouts), we could have our tubme... i mean specter loadouts on display.

Another interesting thing about it would be getting different frame/loadouts to choose from each time you revive. Start the game as Rhino. Die. Then revive as one of four other possible loadouts (1 for each specter tier) . Even specter regiment research could benefit, they could become like the large restore pizzas.... Bulk specter crafting. 

 

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13 minutes ago, AndouRaiton said:

Reviving yourself costs affinity.

yeah i think the founder of the game knows that.

on topic: dont really like the idea, specially cause i dont wanna sink my resources on hundreds of specters.

and what if i use my last 1? i can only play the mission with 1 life? thats more frustrating than fun imo.

but i like the other idea.

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i do think that the revive system needs some kind of risk applied to it, just not as complicated. i personally dont think it needs to "cost" anything else besides affinity.

while it is true that reviving costs affinity, that risk only applies only when players need affinity.

i think it needs something as simple as, upon reviving ourselves, we are sent back to spawn.

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The problem with revive costs is they are largely inconsequential (as far as the impact of the resource drain is concerned) to established players but highly punishing to newer players. Worse yet, veteran players have the tools and the know-how to help with staying alive and new players likely don't.

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

We used to have a limited 4 revives per frame within 24 hr. Not gonna lie, i kinda liked that since it made people try not to ever die.

At first I thought this is just trolling, but it seems that the game soon will enter in a never ending cycle in which new players will ask for things that once were in the game but didn't work out well so they changed it to something else. 🙂

Edit: just realised that the OP is a founder. I'm a bit confused now. 😄

Edited by TBone142
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5 minutes ago, TBone142 said:

At first I thought this is just trolling, but it seems that the game soon will enter in a never ending cycle in which new players will ask for things that once were in the game but didn't work out well so they changed it to something else. 🙂

Edit: just realised that the OP is a founder. I'm a bit confused now. 😄

Nah. i'm just saying, looking back, it wasn't as bad as i remembered it. It added a layer of "challange" as a newbie but adds nothing to people with all the frames so i wouldn't want that readded.

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1 hour ago, PookieNumnums said:

 

What if it the game consumed a frame every time we revive ourselves? I agree. That seems unreasonable, inhumane, and cruel.

But what if we used specters for that purpose? If we die and have to revive, what if it used a specter as our new transference target?

Is that something that would be a logical way to justify life after death? Essentially, all warframes would be specters, and depending on the tier of specter used (and under the guise of stasis recovery) the specter-frame a la dark sector conflicts would start out with limited ability and as you play the mission the spawn sickness wears off and you regain full functionality. 

It would add a neat aspect to the darker side of the operator x warframe dynamic. Ordis could then show us his clone bank and, like our personal quarters (but using specter loadouts), we could have our tubme... i mean specter loadouts on display.

Another interesting thing about it would be getting different frame/loadouts to choose from each time you revive. Start the game as Rhino. Die. Then revive as one of four other possible loadouts (1 for each specter tier) . Even specter regiment research could benefit, they could become like the large restore pizzas.... Bulk specter crafting. 

 

Warframe is not the game for this kind of penalty. If you want this kind of play you can try Path of Exile in hardcore mode, Dungeons and Dragons Online for the death sickness (you can actually stack multiple penalties)

 

Personally I have a deep disdain for this depending on the game I play (didn't mind it in DDO). You can't handle this many enemies/boss? Mmmmmmmm, try it with less health/shield/dps, maybe something would change

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Nah. i'm just saying, looking back, it wasn't as bad as i remembered it. It added a layer of "challange" as a newbie but adds nothing to people with all the frames so i wouldn't want that readded.

Well, it was more like a little cashgrab (being able to buy revives for plat), but I totally get you, but to be honest it's for the better they took it out. (btw by trolling I meant the OP, not you 🙂 )

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mario-3.png

What we currently have.

Adding specter cost is just loading up the arcade cabinet with quarters. Infinite life for a fee.

If DE cared about endless as a practical play choice instead of just letting people be masochist. Changing loadout after death could have some interest. Current standard play sessions are so short though, it's really just not a priority.

Edited by Firetempest
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1 hour ago, PookieNumnums said:

 

What if it the game consumed a frame every time we revive ourselves? I agree. That seems unreasonable, inhumane, and cruel.

But what if we used specters for that purpose? If we die and have to revive, what if it used a specter as our new transference target?

Is that something that would be a logical way to justify life after death? Essentially, all warframes would be specters, and depending on the tier of specter used (and under the guise of stasis recovery) the specter-frame a la dark sector conflicts would start out with limited ability and as you play the mission the spawn sickness wears off and you regain full functionality. 

It would add a neat aspect to the darker side of the operator x warframe dynamic. Ordis could then show us his clone bank and, like our personal quarters (but using specter loadouts), we could have our tubme... i mean specter loadouts on display.

Another interesting thing about it would be getting different frame/loadouts to choose from each time you revive. Start the game as Rhino. Die. Then revive as one of four other possible loadouts (1 for each specter tier) . Even specter regiment research could benefit, they could become like the large restore pizzas.... Bulk specter crafting. 

 

I'm curious about this concept. Particularly, the "What would this mean in terms of gameplay?" aspect - and the potential for switching loadout midmission.

It seems like it's "Four lives per mission, but now you can change your loadout when reviving, though limited to four loadouts due to linking to the specter system" and "When reviving as a switched loadout, take penalties to functionality while acclimating to the new frame," which I don't hate - reminds me of Altered Carbon's sleevesickness.

However, there's also mention of 'using specters,' and the 'tier of specter used,' and later on a mention of bulk specter crafting. This is where I start being hesitant. I don't think it's a good idea to make a consumable item be required to revive, especially if you're still limited to four lives - it reminds me of having four lives per day, and seeing things like the Stalker (during his OP phases) as more of a 'tax' on those lives than something that added anything meaningful to the game. Having to construct a resource to be able to revive is something I would absolutely despise, even with the resources I've gathered over the years.

So, here's how I would do it -

Four lives per mission, each death allows for swapping loadout in the process, and inflicts a temporary swap sickness effect if the loadout is changed. Swap sickness stacks and refreshes duration if you die while it's active and swap loadouts again. I think swap sickness should only apply to the parts of the loadout that change; switching weapons shouldn't affect your Warframe, and switching Warframes shouldn't affect weapons. In addition, it seems appropriate for it to affect only some of their characteristics, specifically things that could represent 'muscle memory,' or something analogous to it due to the Operator/Warframe dichotomy - Speed and Abilities on Warframes, non-Fire Rate speeds and Crit Chance on firearms, everything on melee weapons. If the penalty on a given category wears off and is then reinflicted, it lasts longer but doesn't increase in intensity (as a way to lightly reward the player for surviving the sickness period while also reminding them to make their choice count). Time spent in Operator form does not reduce the remaining penalty or its duration, but getting Transference Static can increase it.

If a Specter of the chosen loadout is active, offer the following option: Either respawn as normal, or consume the Specter. If the Specter is consumed, the Operator takes control of the Specter, wherever it is, whatever it's doing, however much health/shields/energy/ammo it has, and doesn't spend a revive.

If you die and don't swap loadout, no swap penalty, but you're still down a revive and Affinity (if that's still used as a penalty) - this is exactly as it currently is.

Use a separate item to switch loadouts without dying. Still receive Swap Sickness, but significantly shorter and less intense. Further reduction if there's an active Specter of the target loadout for you to switch into (which still involves consuming it). Can only use this when there are no enemies actively aggro'd to you or a teammate within a room or two.

The idea of Ordis having a bank of our loadouts ready-to-deploy also reminds me of Let It Die. Neat touch.

At a glance, this idea has the following issues - as long as you have active Specters out for a given loadout, you're effectively able to respawn as many times as you have Specters, even with the potential problems of having to deal with whatever position/condition the Specter was in. It would be complex to build, and it's probably not very intuitive.

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Is this for real? Lose a frame or a specter to revive? You know that the revive system is even in the lore with something called Oro, yeah I just learned that myself some months ago :/

Why would we need this? It's pretty much useless

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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2 hours ago, Nomayonnaiseinireland said:

It seem the OP is trying to introduce a false problem, to suggest a "solution" that is their true goal. It appears that what the OP really wants implemented is the ability to switch warframes within a mission.

Well that or they could just be really out of touch with the rest of the playerbase and having a "let them eat cake" moment. 

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Hell to the no. Adding cumbersome management of garbage doesn't add challenge.


I did always like the idea of switching gear mid-mission. How to go about balancing that would be the key. Only weapons? Only on death? On consumable gear item? Lots of questions would need to be answered. It would be sick if lotus could send me my Rhino if I felt the need to swap. But again, balance would be key.

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I think just lowering the number of revives per mission would be better. Maybe 1 and change the full arcane revives to +1 with 2 full arcane.

 

when they changed it from 4 revives a day to 4 revives a mission it went a little overboard.

Edited by BDMblue
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