Loki skills/passive touch up

[(PSN)frost_man1255]

Me and a few friends on the design counsel were on the topic of reworks and Loki came up. Loki works perfectly fine and is actually my favorite warframe. That being said he could use a small tweak to bring him up to par with newer frames.

What we came up with was to first change his passive. Instead of wall clinging for longer we thought getting a finisher kill while invisible adding more time to invisibility would work very well. It gives him a way to extend his only real survival skill and could let non max duration builds get more room for play.

We didn't want to change a thing about his 2nd or 4th ability's {invisibility and radial disarm)

The change comes by making his 1st and 3rd both be one skill. Tap for switch teleport and hold for decoy. This change would make it so anyone who is really adamant that he doesn't change happy while also opening up a space for a new 3rd ability 

The ideas we had for what it could be were either a single target move that opens them up for finishers for synergy with his passive, or an AOE caltrop  style move that slows enemy who enter it by a fixed amount and stagger them every few seconds for finisher openings. This option would have synergy with his passive and his 4th because enemy would be forced to come into melee range and walk on the coltrops and allow for easy finishers. It would also give Loki a bit more zone control to round out his kit.

TLDR Loki would get

A new passive to enhance his invisibility

His 1st ans 3rd would become a single ability

his 2nd is unchanged

he gets a new 3rd that has synergy with other skills

his 4th is unchanged

Any ideas and feedback would be appreciated in the comments 

EDIT 1 If you have decoy out and switch is an enemy then they switch places with the decoy instead of you to give some more synergy between the two

EDIT 2 for clarity the  coltrops would be an AOE around loki that slows enemys and periodically stuns for finishers

Edited November 3, 2018 by (PS4)frost_man1255
Addition

[Atsia]

Well my first move wouldn't be putting decoy and switch on the same ability. They aren't exactly abilities that seem like they should be on the same cast, especially when they aren't that similar to each other.

[(PSN)frost_man1255]

16 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Well my first move wouldn't be putting decoy and switch on the same ability. They aren't exactly abilities that seem like they should be on the same cast, especially when they aren't that similar to each other.

It wasn't really mine either but alot of people love love the decoy switch teleport combo so this way they don't lose it 

Edited November 3, 2018 by (PS4)frost_man1255

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

For his "trap" ability, I think it should lay down multiple by default with different functions. I'm thinking an 8 meter zone centered around Loki, the decoy (if you've put it down), and a targeted location. The Loki centric trap should stun and open enemies up to finishers. The decoy centric trap should deal damage equal to the health of the decoy. Finally, the targeted zone should simply slow enemies down via bolas link between X number of enemies for a few seconds. I think it's in tune with Loki's "trickster" theme, adds utility, maintains all current abilities, and offers some fun combos.

[(PSN)frost_man1255]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)LoneWolf_001 said:

For his "trap" ability, I think it should lay down multiple by default with different functions. I'm thinking an 8 meter zone centered around Loki, the decoy (if you've put it down), and a targeted location. The Loki centric trap should stun and open enemies up to finishers. The decoy centric trap should deal damage equal to the health of the decoy. Finally, the targeted zone should simply slow enemies down via bolas link between X number of enemies for a few seconds. I think it's in tune with Loki's "trickster" theme, adds utility, maintains all current abilities, and offers some fun combos.

I like the idea of multiple areas but maybe keep it at 2? one around loki and one around the decoy. Make the decoy one a slow and an armor debuff and the one around loki a slow and stun?

Edited November 3, 2018 by (PS4)frost_man1255

[peterc3]

Switch Teleport and Decoy aren't even vaguely the same ability, so there is really no point to combining them.

This all seems to boil down to letting Loki be invisible for an entire mission while gaining the benefits of building for everything other than Duration. Modding stats is a choice. Build some up at the cost of others. This is a massive buff with no downside.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Switch Teleport and Decoy aren't even vaguely the same ability, so there is really no point to combining them.

This all seems to boil down to letting Loki be invisible for an entire mission while gaining the benefits of building for everything other than Duration. Modding stats is a choice. Build some up at the cost of others. This is a massive buff with no downside.

Both are "simple and lackluster" so I personally don't see why combining them into one (via a touch vs hold or a tool kit toggle) would be a bad thing. However, traps could be directly implemented in the usage of the decoy as well or adding a toggle kit for traps with around the decoy slot could add some group utility to Loki. Extended invisibility on execution would be a nice mechanic that would add an element of timing to an ability that requires upkeep but is an overly simple one trick pony. Just as a devils advocate to the point, I'm saying Ivara does it better. The time on it may need shortened to compensate for said added mechanic/passive. Ultimately, I don't see why there has to be a "downside," as Loki's ability kit is starting to fall short of the shine of newer Warframes. Don't get me wrong, Loki is a powerful stealth-action frame with some good tricks, I just think he could use some more group utility in non-stealth situations and perhaps a few more "tricks."

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoneWolf_001 said:

Both are "simple and lackluster"

There is no rhyme or reason to have 2 completely different abilities bound to the same key. If you wanted to have a multi-use for ST where a hold would switch with the Decoy, no matter what, that works. Overloading a game element "just because" doesn't cut it. Doing so just to make room for a 5th ability is stretching it beyond the breaking point.

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoneWolf_001 said:

adding a toggle kit for traps

Loki is a manipulator, not a trapper or trickster in Warframe. He's both there and not there. Even when you see him, is it really him? Did you remember to grab your weapon this morning?

Any "rework" has to at least pretend to maintain the theme. The OP is essentially giving Loki access to infinite invisibility and a way to open enemies to Finishers, it doesn't read like Loki at all.

[(PSN)cazazombies245]

I see a big problem with this entire rework and it's around of making loki some kind of better Ash, and for some reason most Loki players thinks exactly that when he's not, like someone already said Loki is a manipulator, don't try to make him an assassin (i'm talking about that infinite invisibility envolving finisher kills) and combining 2 different skills in 1 just because some people like it it's ridiculous, i liked the 100% dmg reduction on nezha, but that's no reason to put a press 90% dmg reduction and a hold 100% dmg reduction, if you want to be a stealth murdered play as Ash or Ivara because Loki is not for that and if you want to rework something first you need to know what it is, then how to improve it, and finally balance it, making his passive ONLY to improve his best ability and combining his 2 mediocre abilities without touching them at all is not the way of reworking Loki properly.

[(PSN)frost_man1255]

I would be fine with loosing the finisher on the new third. I would just like to see him get a new skill that gives him some area control. Also if decoy and switch dont become one then decoy either needs a buff or too just scrap it for a new one. A new passive is absolutely needed. Wall latch is just disappointing