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These drop rates barely making any sense


Lysithea.Nya
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I can understand now why I almost never see anyone using Equinox, Ivara and Khora. 

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I can live without Equinox, but these drops are making no sense at all. Maybe consider doing them pseudo-random? Like, when chance to get duplicate of owned item gets significantly lowered. 

On top of that, almost never working radar and combat mechanics "shoot for a second, then wait for a minute" makes me ill. 

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oh sweet summer child. have you not built chroma yet?

how about nidus or harrow.

then let us talk about farming for war hilt+blades, coolant leak, silent battery, condition overload, vengeful revenant, any specific kela de thaym mod.. and so much more.

rng with no safety net mechanics, even at absurd points like boss kill#1000, allowing a choice from a list.. because generally you can always choose to just buy it.. is the gift that warframe keeps giving. forever.

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20 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

that's the point, to make you wanna pay

instead now I don't care about equinox and never want to do any mission on uranus. Same goes for sanctuary and spy.

19 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

oh sweet summer child

let's not begin this conversation with insulting each other, fully mature person.

19 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

how about nidus or harrow.

surprisingly enough these two weren't that much of a problem

19 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

 then let us talk about farming for war hilt+blades, coolant leak, silent battery, condition overload, vengeful revenant, any specific kela de thaym mod.. and so much more.

any mods are tradeable, normal frames parts are not

19 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

chroma

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19 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

rng with no safety net mechanics

and I'm talking about that there should be.

19 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

because generally you can always choose to just buy

sure, why not delete all missions and just buy everything. I could buy it probably if the price was more reasonable though. There's already too much of things that forces you to pay - just warframe/weapons/riven/companion/archwing/riven slots will easily cost 1k+ of platinum for anyone who wants to really play rather than think 10 hours which warframe to build to fit like 5 given by default slots. Thankfully platinum is tradeable and making some is not that much of a problem, but there is always someone's money behind any platinum either way.

Edited by rsod25
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OK, I'll give you equinox as being a bit excessive (due to the number of parts mainly), but ivara and khora aren't 'that' hard to get all things considered, ps chroma PRIME isn't the same as getting chroma, it's a bit like Ash prime was easier to get than Ash....  

Now if you'd have mentioned some of the mods and parts that only drop with 1-2% chance (NOTHING should be this low) then yeah I'd be all with you but considering part of the games premise is 'got to catch them all' and it's free I don't see an issue with a slightly higher grind on some frames to encourage a bit of investment in the game via plat... not that you actually need to pay for said plat due to the trade options.   

 

Edited by LSG501
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26 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

slightly higher

there's the problem that I can't call it slightly at all.

27 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

to encourage a bit of investment in the game via plat

well, as I said, this only makes me (and I'm pretty sure most of the people) discouraged from such investments. Don't get me wrong, I have bought boosters, and bunch of slots and some decorations but I mean even base things like normal warframes... for THAT price? literally any prime warframe costs less than base Equi. 

 

29 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

khora aren't 'that' hard to get

khora is even worse due to 8 waves in sanctuary for both systems and BP and ridiculously low drop rate. I gave up on it long time ago as well, after like 50th attempts to get it.

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52 minutes ago, rsod25 said:

there's the problem that I can't call it slightly at all. 

well, as I said, this only makes me (and I'm pretty sure most of the people) discouraged from such investments. Don't get me wrong, I have bought boosters, and bunch of slots and some decorations but I mean even base things like normal warframes... for THAT price? literally any prime warframe costs less than base Equi.  

 

khora is even worse due to 8 waves in sanctuary for both systems and BP and ridiculously low drop rate. I gave up on it long time ago as well, after like 50th attempts to get it. 

Well if you're that concerned about the amount you're running (and I question the 50 attempts on khora) then you could have always just spent the time farming some prime parts or rivens etc and traded them instead, as I said earlier you don't even need to buy plat so in my view there is nothing particularly wrong with equinox drop rates, it just seems worse because it needs 8 instead of 3 or 4 parts.... 

Edited by LSG501
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At least you care enough to make a complaint which means their reflex hammer and coercive marketing works. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Warframe is not a game that promises you a smooth satisfaction course but uses your gratification as a bait like a carrot on a stick to abuse your compulsive behavior in collecting stuffs to maximize playtime and microtransaction rate. 

It's a general misconception that people think Warframe puts their fun in the top priority. 

Edited by Volinus7
"invest" in Warframe huh? Lol
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15 hours ago, steelblueskies said:

rng with no safety net mechanics

This. 22 Kela kills for Saryn systems crosses the threshold from video game into torture simulator territory. Especially in a fight like hers where you're just sitting around on Limbo with your thumb up your bum.

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You think thats a problem?

Allright, listen up and imagine it in front of your eyes if i say that now:

Equinox Prime farming....

Let me make a bet DE will make a LOT more money that month as Equinox Prime gets released because almost everyone will prefer to just trade it from another player.

Specially.... imagine this trading nightmare of Day and night parts... 5 Trade fields, 8 parts. Try to dont be scamed?...

 

They could make it user friendly, you just get parts like this: Equinox Prime Day & Night Chassis, Equinox Prime Day & Night Neurooptic, Equinox Prime Day & Night Systems, Equinox Prime Blueprint

Or they could go the way they went with normal Equinox parts and choose the way of more money, since a lot more people will buy plat that month...

 

I will be curious which way they choose, if im still there at that time

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20 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Well if you're that concerned about the amount you're running (and I question the 50 attempts on khora) then you could have always just spent the time farming some prime parts or rivens etc and traded them instead, as I said earlier you don't even need to buy plat so in my view there is nothing particularly wrong with equinox drop rates, it just seems worse because it needs 8 instead of 3 or 4 parts.... 

I wouldn't be so sure to question. When I farmed Khora I had 7 main blueprints before I finally got systems. Its random, so there is definitely a chance that a player can fail to get the Systems blueprint after many, many runs. I had well over 50 Zone 8 runs before I got the Systems blueprint. 

But it is free, ya just have to play the game to get it. And playing is supposed to be fun. I had a ton of fun getting khora's systems bp. Frustrating at times? Sure, but I still enjoyed playing. That's why I play the game - to have fun. Getting stuff adds to the fun. It seems to me that there are a fair amount of people that lose that perspective, or possibly never had it in the first place. 

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Of the frames,  the ones i bought were octavia,  nidus,  harrow and ivara.  The grind for octavia while more tolerable was still much too much for my attention span.  The nidus rot c drop and the harrow rot c just refused to drop for me after a week solid farning for each and i wasnt prepared to sink more hours in so i bought em.  Ivara..  I only just finished her set about a couple weeks ago after regularly running spy sorties and normal spys for exp pretty frequently.  Seems her drop chance is really low for the effort spys take most people. 

 

Still,  i like these grinds better than bounties,  at least they dont change the rotation daily

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RNG rewards I think are one of the aspects of this game that need to go. I don't mind grinding for rewards, and in fact I'd be perfectly willing to grind way more than the current average amount, so long as it meant I accrued reliable progress towards whichever goal I'm aiming towards. What personally bothers me when farming many items isn't the amount of grind to be performed (I love this game to bits and am more than happy to play more of it), but the uncertainty behind the grind: because of the RNG nature of rewards, playing any single mission means you either get the reward you want, right then and there, or all of the time and effort you've put into trying to obtain it amounts to nothing. Thus, when I farm for rewards and fail to get the one I wanted, I feel like my time has been disrespected, because I could very well not have run the relevant mission at all and still arrived at essentially the same results. Because of this, I'd support individualized rewards with pseudo-random biases, so that edge cases, both positive and negative, get smoothed out. Better yet, I'd very much like a rework to reward systems so that one could be able to reliably progress towards a reward, even if that reliable progress entailed a significant amount of grinding.

Edited by Teridax68
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2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

RNG rewards I think are one of the aspects of this game that need to go. I don't mind grinding for rewards, and in fact I'd be perfectly willing to grind way more than the current average amount, so long as it meant I accrued reliable progress towards whichever goal I'm aiming towards. What personally bothers me when farming many items isn't the amount of grind to be performed (I love this game to bits and am more than happy to play more of it), but the uncertainty behind the grind: because of the RNG nature of rewards, playing any single mission means you either get the reward you want, right then and there, or all of the time and effort you've put into trying to obtain it amounts to nothing. Thus, when I farm for rewards and fail to get the one I wanted, I feel like my time has been disrespected, because I could very well not have run the relevant mission at all and still arrived at essentially the same results. Because of this, I'd support individualized rewards with pseudo-random biases, so that edge cases, both positive and negative, get smoothed out. Better yet, I'd very much like a rework to reward systems so that one could be able to reliably progress towards a reward, even if that reliable progress entailed a significant amount of grinding.

I disagree with this. I know I'd rather be rewarded sometimes on the 1st try and sometimes on the 10th try instead of always being guaranteed the reward on the 3rd try. The uncertainty pays into the reward factor at the end. Besides, it's a game. If you don't get the reward you wanted, then hey, you still played a mission and presumably had fun doing it. If you don't like the base gameplay of Warframe, then why are you bothering to obtain items in it?

The warframe I had the hardest time obtaining was Ivara. I kept running the same Spy mission over and over and I never got her chassis blueprint. Eventually I started keeping a record because I thought it was pretty insane. It took 40 runs after that until I got the part I wanted. 40 runs, plus however many I ran before I started keeping track, when the expected number of runs is 18, based on the drop chance. And when I got her, I didn't feel like my time was disrespected or wasted. I was elated to finally have Ivara. I don't use her much these days, but every time I equip her, I still feel a twinge of that sense of accomplishment.

I get that feeling every time I get a riven mod from a Sortie or an Eidolon lens blueprint from a bounty. I don't think a token system or whatever replacement for the RNG reward system could come close to recreating that feeling. I'd be okay with a pseudo-random bias, I guess, as long as the effect was minor, but I don't like the idea of individual rewards. In other games I've played, it sucks when you get something you want and your friend in the squad doesn't.

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12 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

I disagree with this. I know I'd rather be rewarded sometimes on the 1st try and sometimes on the 10th try instead of always being guaranteed the reward on the 3rd try. The uncertainty pays into the reward factor at the end.

I don't think the uncertainty pays into the reward factor at all. I can agree that sometimes getting lucky, and earning a reward instantly without anticipating it, can feel good, but the opposite isn't true: when it takes a large multiple of the expected time to obtain a reward, the whole affair feels like a slog, and in the worst cases conducive to burnout. This is why most games with RNG rewards, including gacha games, implement pity mechanics, that guarantee that the player will eventually get a good reward after enough tries.

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Besides, it's a game. If you don't get the reward you wanted, then hey, you still played a mission and presumably had fun doing it. If you don't like the base gameplay of Warframe, then why are you bothering to obtain items in it?

I feel this argument to be rather inappropriate when I took great pains to make clear that I do in fact very much enjoy Warframe, and that my issue with RNG rewards does not stem from problems with the core gameplay. The problem with RNG rewards, however, and rewards in general, is simply that they render gameplay objectives extrinsic to gameplay, rather than intrinsic: even with gameplay that is inherently fun, when you play towards a reward, that fun takes second place behind the pursuit of the reward, so if that reward is not obtained, the fun itself does not take precedence over the disappointment of having one's time wasted. This is ultimately why so many players complain about the grind: by and large, the consensus is that Warframe's gameplay is fun, but that gameplay becomes less fun when the reward system attached to it is disrespectful of people's time. In the worst case, it deters players outright, which is not good for the player or the game itself.

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The warframe I had the hardest time obtaining was Ivara. I kept running the same Spy mission over and over and I never got her chassis blueprint. Eventually I started keeping a record because I thought it was pretty insane. It took 40 runs after that until I got the part I wanted. 40 runs, plus however many I ran before I started keeping track, when the expected number of runs is 18, based on the drop chance. And when I got her, I didn't feel like my time was disrespected or wasted. I was elated to finally have Ivara. I don't use her much these days, but every time I equip her, I still feel a twinge of that sense of accomplishment.

That is some very anecdotal evidence that, from the looks of this thread and others before it, puts you in a small minority of people who feel this way. I can agree that it can feel satisfying to finally obtain the reward one spent so much time working towards, but by that point, the element of uncertainty is gone, so it really is beside the point. If you were still farming for Ivara, despite who knows how many tries since (and this is perfectly possible, given the random nature of rewards), you would likely be telling a different story. I personally spent many hours farming Khora, but the only thing I felt after completing my last non-Elite Sanctuary Onslaught run was simple relief from a task that had turned into a repetitive chore, rather than a feeling of special accomplishment.

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I get that feeling every time I get a riven mod from a Sortie or an Eidolon lens blueprint from a bounty. I don't think a token system or whatever replacement for the RNG reward system could come close to recreating that feeling. I'd be okay with a pseudo-random bias, I guess, as long as the effect was minor, but I don't like the idea of individual rewards. In other games I've played, it sucks when you get something you want and your friend in the squad doesn't.

I don't think there needs to be mutual exclusion here. A system that allowed for players to randomly earn rewards, coupled with another system that ensured players would be guaranteed to obtain rewards after a large amount of grinding, could perhaps be the best of both worlds, in that it would satisfy players like you, who derive special value from getting rewarded at random, while preventing anyone working towards a reward from suffering from especially poor streaks of luck. As okay as it can be to be a little unlucky, past a certain there's a general consensus that there isn't really additional value to be gained from wasting more of the player's time, hence pity mechanics in other games.

Edited by Teridax68
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