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Warframe Rivens


0utlier
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What might be an interesting expansion to the Riven system would be to make Warframe rivens.

The idea of creating your own Warframe may not ever happen (from what I can tell, at least some of the player base wants this), but it might be an alternative way of making each frame unique for each player.

Thoughts?

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Never going to happen as the squeaky wheel wheel will squeak, as it is DE are always trying to add the epeen blocks to content.  Used to be same way sorties that the epeen brigade could put in unrealistic requirements eg  only having done them before, so how do you learn eidelons.  Have to accept if a casual player in WF we aren't getting the good stuff outside giveaway alerts by DE

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Fun fact, these used to exist.

Stats were based on the random rolls you got for certain mods. It was possible to god-roll a Trinity. They've been removed and were deemed 'not the direction that DE wants to take Warframe as a game'.

Since then they have ensured that whether you're MR 1 or MR 25, if you put the same mod setup on a Warframe, you get the exact same performance. Consistency. The only difference between them being the mods you can farm up at any point between.

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8 hours ago, 0utlier said:

...alternative way of making each frame unique for each player...

Hah, "unique." You mean inferior if you don't participate in the grueling grind that will push many people to quit the game, probably including yourself. We want to play a fun action game, not recreate the slavery of a fake economy in the style of EVE online. Warframe is a game that satisfies many refuges spurned by overly brutal grind farms. Why bring the issue here?

Warframe's grind is vastly more generous than many other games, and irresponsibly giving us more power already magnifies the common issue that enemies on the standard solar system are so weak that we don't know if we deal good damage or not because they're dead anyway.

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8 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Fun fact, these used to exist.

Stats were based on the random rolls you got for certain mods. It was possible to god-roll a Trinity. They've been removed and were deemed 'not the direction that DE wants to take Warframe as a game'.

Since then they have ensured that whether you're MR 1 or MR 25, if you put the same mod setup on a Warframe, you get the exact same performance. Consistency. The only difference between them being the mods you can farm up at any point between.

Thanks for an interesting point. I think it's a shame they decided against this, but I can understand why given your last paragraph.

1 hour ago, MechaKnight said:

Hah, "unique." You mean inferior if you don't participate in the grueling grind that will push many people to quit the game, probably including yourself. We want to play a fun action game, not recreate the slavery of a fake economy in the style of EVE online. Warframe is a game that satisfies many refuges spurned by overly brutal grind farms. Why bring the issue here?

Warframe's grind is vastly more generous than many other games, and irresponsibly giving us more power already magnifies the common issue that enemies on the standard solar system are so weak that we don't know if we deal good damage or not because they're dead anyway.

To be honest I didn't understand that about the playerbase, if what you claim is true. I've played this game enough to no longer care about attaining a "strongest" build but those which suit my playstyle. I was just idly thinking about a way of being able to customise builds beyond what we already have.

@MechaKnight, do you think that Rivens should never have been introduced in the first place then?

Edited by 0utlier
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3 hours ago, 0utlier said:

@MechaKnight, do you think that Rivens should never have been introduced in the first place then?

Yes. I wouldn't spend much time in detail on it now, but here's the intent versus execution in quick detail.

The developers recognized some weapons--usually older ones--are underpowered in the modern game meta. Thus, their intent was to release a class of mod that makes weak weapons very strong, and makes strong weapons only minorly better. This was the ultimate weapon in band-aid mod philosophy to test once and for all that most balance issues can be solved via a new mod. It failed badly because the developers underestimated some of the more underused weapons, and overestimated some of the popular weapons. A new meta arose from the mod balance, and an extremely volatile and costly new commodity was born. It was after the failure of rivens to balance the system and its fast permanence as a trade commodity that spurred the balance team to do the right thing and start learning their game's balance and fine-tuning every weapon in the game that came to mind. That said, some weapons were still forgotten, like the Stug.

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9 hours ago, MechaKnight said:

Yes. I wouldn't spend much time in detail on it now, but here's the intent versus execution in quick detail.

The developers recognized some weapons--usually older ones--are underpowered in the modern game meta. Thus, their intent was to release a class of mod that makes weak weapons very strong, and makes strong weapons only minorly better. This was the ultimate weapon in band-aid mod philosophy to test once and for all that most balance issues can be solved via a new mod. It failed badly because the developers underestimated some of the more underused weapons, and overestimated some of the popular weapons. A new meta arose from the mod balance, and an extremely volatile and costly new commodity was born. It was after the failure of rivens to balance the system and its fast permanence as a trade commodity that spurred the balance team to do the right thing and start learning their game's balance and fine-tuning every weapon in the game that came to mind. That said, some weapons were still forgotten, like the Stug.

You seem to have a good grasp on this and a number of other balance issues, looking at some of your other posts on here as well. I can see you've been playing Warframe for quite some time. Are you a member of the Design Council or anything like that? If not, is there some way I could recommend you for it? You seem to care about the game a lot.

I agree with what you wrote, but I still think that Rivens were a good idea in theory at least regardless of DE's intentions, and certainly good for DE in terms of being a money-spinner and getting people to invest real money in Platinum, which might have been a secondary motivation on their part.

I would argue that Rivens were made to be too powerful - I would have set them so that they always had only 2 positives and 1 negative, that the range of possible values for them always lay between +/- 50% to 80% for every weapon, and possibly being able to choose/lock-in one of the positives to lessen grinding. For me, with these rules they would feel like a softer bonus for one's favourite weapon/frame rather than the "necessity" of builds in Warframe.

But as they say, hindsight is 20/20, a retrospective review of rivens seems very unlikely to happen and we are left with the current situation.

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