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(XB1)KayAitch

Exalted weapons Vs arbiter drones

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Abilities don't work on arbiter drones, which makes sense. Frames like Saryn could just ignore them otherwise.

Exalted weapons don't work on them either, which is more confused. I get why, frames like Mesa could just ignore them completely, but this creates a real problem for certain frames.

For instance I recently attempted an arbitration with Titania - not an idea choice but it was her boost. She can't shoot the drones at all - Dex Pixia does no damage to them, and as if Razorwing drops she's dead this means these missions are almost impossible with Titania.

I haven't tested yet, but Ivara, Valkyr, etc will have the same issue.

Arbitration drones should follow the same rules as nullifiers - abilities won't target them, but aimed exalted weapons should still be able to take them out.

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I too am of the opinion that Unique weapons really shouldn't be affected by the Drones own invulnerability. 

You equip them like a weapon, they perform like weapons (and arguably not even good weapons) and you mod them like weapons. The only thing about them that even says "ability" is the fact that they cost energy.

I'm totally fine with removing their energy cost if that's the case, and then having these weapons actually be considered weapons. :clem:

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Im against. Will be too easy for Excal and Valk.   These will just run around with constantly active 4 and mow down drones along with enemies. Same goes for Wukong btw. He is a bit weaker, but not that weak. Staff does enough damage to oneshot drones...and can deal with enemies pretty fast too. 
 

Actually, i think DE need to tweak drones to be IMMUNE to Slide attacks too. Because "slide spam" is still as effective as it always was.  And drones are...flying.  They should dodge anything but AIR melee attacks and guns.

 

 

Besides, its really easy to kill a few drones before going on a rampage normally.  Any decent weapon can kill em oneshot.  

On Titania you do it like that :  Fly upwards > Disable 4 > Kill drone while aimgliding > Enable 4 before landing.    Done.    If you have trouble aiming, use Ignis or Plasmor....Or lenz.

You can do same by using cover :  Take cover > Disable 4 > Kill drone > Enable 4.       

You dont even need to come close to drone...you can snipe em from afar, and then rush in for slaughter.

 

Its easy enough already. 

  

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1 minute ago, Kainosh said:

Staff does enough damage to oneshot drones

So does basically any melee weapon at that level, especially when basic melee weapons have access to better modding, no energy worries and no fear of losing your entire combo in one fell swoop regardless of Focus/mods.

3 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Any decent weapon can kill em oneshot.  

Exactly, if any decent weapon can kill them in a single shot, why is it a problem for those who want to use weapons that are arguably not decent?

If I want to smack the Drone with a 4m stick instead of jumping on the meta bandwagon and fondling my Arca Plasmor in inappropriate places like everyone else, why is that a problem?

5 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Disable 4, Enable 4

That's.. really the problem. It's not fun disabling and re-enabling your abilities over and over again on the whims of a drone. It is more efficient, and frankly better for gameplay to simply never activate your #4 in the first place.

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58 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

 I haven't tested yet, but Ivara, Valkyr, etc will have the same issue.

Hmmm, interesting.  I will have to look into this.  It's something I've thought about testing, but it always slipped my mind when I'm doing Arbitrations.  

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15 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

On Titania you do it like that :  Fly upwards > Disable 4 > Kill drone while aimgliding > Enable 4 before landing.    Done.    If you have trouble aiming, use Ignis or Plasmor....Or lenz.

Titania's 4 is pretty slow, 4s or so to recast. That's very clunky steps for a frame that's already fragile.

Titania was only really an example though. Frames with exhalted weapons usually have those as their most significant ability, and it's not just nerfed, it's effectively removed.

Basically, don't use frames with exhalted weapons in Arbitrations. Got it. I'll play Rhino/Inaros with Arca Plasmor like everyone else.

I am a bit bored of that already though.

 

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59 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Titania's 4 is pretty slow, 4s or so to recast. That's very clunky steps for a frame that's already fragile.

Titania was only really an example though. Frames with exhalted weapons usually have those as their most significant ability, and it's not just nerfed, it's effectively removed.

Basically, don't use frames with exhalted weapons in Arbitrations. Got it. I'll play Rhino/Inaros with Arca Plasmor like everyone else.

I am a bit bored of that already though.

 

Well with Titanic remember the one useful buff of her 2, dust?  Guess what gets negated when that drone comes around.  Hope that drone isn't hiding around a corner because you may be needing to crowdsurf on a frame that has only 17% damage mitigation by default.  Oh and her 1 and 3 also are negated.

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3 hours ago, WhimsicalPacifist said:

Well with Titanic remember the one useful buff of her 2, dust?  Guess what gets negated when that drone comes around.  Hope that drone isn't hiding around a corner because you may be needing to crowdsurf on a frame that has only 17% damage mitigation by default.  Oh and her 1 and 3 also are negated.

Yes, the only thing she can do is spellbind herself to boost her fire rate, but as her guns can't damage the drones that's pretty useless. 

I don't think that was the design intent.

If the arbitration drones behaved like nullifiers then that would be fine - I don't really understand why the rules for them are so different.

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9 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Im against. Will be too easy for Excal and Valk.   These will just run around with constantly active 4 and mow down drones along with enemies. Same goes for Wukong btw. He is a bit weaker, but not that weak. Staff does enough damage to oneshot drones...and can deal with enemies pretty fast too. 
 

Actually, i think DE need to tweak drones to be IMMUNE to Slide attacks too. Because "slide spam" is still as effective as it always was.  And drones are...flying.  They should dodge anything but AIR melee attacks and guns.

Well the debate is really more about "how fair is it?" than rather or not it becomes too simple. The problem is less about the drones than it is that we have one life. The fact that the drones both are invincible to abilities and extend that to allies (with full invulnerabilities) near by AND cleanse all CC on affected units makes toggling off abilities just to deal with drones laborious and deadly.

The frames that shine in Arbitrations are the tanky frames that don't need ability damage or CC: Chroma, Rhino, Inaros, Nidus, Nezha, Oberon, Nekros, Frost/Revenant (kinda), Trinity, Zephyr under most conditions with Turbulence and the same for Mesa with Shattershield. I personally haven't seen a Khora or Gara perform but I suspect they might do okay, maybe even a cautious Atlas as well as tactical Volts and Lokis/Ashs/Octavias. And Limbo is well... Limbo. 

Wukong and Valkyr can do well on the basis of their tanky natures and the self buffs they have but it becomes a waste of time to use their 4ths as it just taking energy that is better used else where (as a general rule of thumb anywhere really but stressed in this particular mode). Ivara is more an annoyance to toggle but at least her survivability is separate (and self buff) from her 4th. Excalibur and Titania on the other hand have survivability tools baked into their exalted class abilities coupled with their other survivability abilities often being rendered obsolete when a drone is around due to them being enemy based rather than self buffs. It makes those moments you switch out of their 4ths excessively precarious because they have to shed a portion of their survivability to deal with a single enemy; the highest probability to be picked off early for a failure. It would only be comparable to then say what if all the other frames that do well in Arbitrations had to shed their survivability tools to deal with drones (aka Chroma needs to take off Vex/Wards and Rhino needs to remove Iron Skin... etc)? Nidus and Inaros might be the only ones that remain out of sheer Ehp and healing/passive death sidesteps. I can tell you that (in my absentmindedness) I just the other night got caught in a Nully bubble then immediately picked off like a second after in a 30min+ Survival Arbitration on Chroma. If that basically had to happen every time I needed to take out a drone there would just be no reason to use abilities in the first place.

Basically, Exalted class abilities get an extra short stick in this particular case; especially Excalibur and Titania. And the "one life" modifier only exacerbates the issue. I know some people don't like the "perma" builds on those abilities however if they were meant to be toggled often DE shouldn't have

  1. made their upkeep so low on most of them.
  2. made them so intrusive into the playstyle and systems of the game.

By intrusive I mean that they have activation and deactivation times built on a system that encourages you to be in it longer while discouraging you from toggling. It is best to pick whether you want to go exalted or just regular weaponry before even going into a mission. You build up a good combo on your melee then decide to go into your exalted for a bit you just lost melee progress vice versa you build up your combo in exalted and for what ever reason it gets deactivated, you lost progress again. Of which only Mesa has her 4th that is reasonably set up to toggle more often and Valkyr has more problems than just a more restrictive energy drain that supports a toggle functionality to Hysteria.

Ill end with the only other enemy that operates similarly to Arbitration Drones is Nullifiers and I might add that all the exalted class abilities can deal with them (except Mesa mostly due to targeting) without needing to toggle already. Reducing the damage done to the drones with exalted class abilities would be preferable than to just having them ignore them.

PS.) While I don't particularly like excess slide attacks, it is a nonissue. Some weapons make sense they could hit them even if it isn't represented by the animation (like whips, chains and flails). Unless you also want to make the drones immune to AoE weaponry like Plasmacor or Ignis it would be a pointless fix. This is coming from a Vectis/Nikana user.

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On 2018-11-04 at 9:11 AM, Kainosh said:

Im against. Will be too easy for Excal and Valk.   These will just run around with constantly active 4 and mow down drones along with enemies. Same goes for Wukong btw. He is a bit weaker, but not that weak. Staff does enough damage to oneshot drones...and can deal with enemies pretty fast too. 
 

Actually, i think DE need to tweak drones to be IMMUNE to Slide attacks too. Because "slide spam" is still as effective as it always was.  And drones are...flying.  They should dodge anything but AIR melee attacks and guns.

 

 

Besides, its really easy to kill a few drones before going on a rampage normally.  Any decent weapon can kill em oneshot.  

On Titania you do it like that :  Fly upwards > Disable 4 > Kill drone while aimgliding > Enable 4 before landing.    Done.    If you have trouble aiming, use Ignis or Plasmor....Or lenz.

You can do same by using cover :  Take cover > Disable 4 > Kill drone > Enable 4.       

You dont even need to come close to drone...you can snipe em from afar, and then rush in for slaughter.

 

Its easy enough already. 

  

Ok, what if they make it so you have to hit the drones with exalted blade itself and not it’s projectiles.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok, what if they make it so you have to hit the drones with exalted blade itself and not it’s projectiles.

 What about Mesa? Her pistols are also Exalted weapons.  Want em to target Drones too?  Because that is what gonna happen. It will be foken unfair if Excal can and Mesa cant, so DE will let her in too.  And then she will Dominate.

And when that happens, i will also rebel.  Because if Exalted blade is a weapon, then Volt's Shock is also a weapon. Volt just releases Electricity from his internal capacitor...just like Amprex and Lanka.  And i dont want to be left behind while Mesa and Excal and Wukong have fun with their Abilities.  

 

 

At this point you can just ask DE to replace A-Drones with Nullifiers (because you dont seem to mind them at all...and they can remove Iron skin...).   

And "arbitration" will become a high level Void Defence mission with 1 life limit.    

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42 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

 What about Mesa? Her pistols are also Exalted weapons.  Want em to target Drones too?  Because that is what gonna happen. It will be foken unfair if Excal can and Mesa cant, so DE will let her in too.  And then she will Dominate.

And when that happens, i will also rebel.  Because if Exalted blade is a weapon, then Volt's Shock is also a weapon. Volt just releases Electricity from his internal capacitor...just like Amprex and Lanka.  And i dont want to be left behind while Mesa and Excal and Wukong have fun with their Abilities.  

 

 

At this point you can just ask DE to replace A-Drones with Nullifiers (because you dont seem to mind them at all...and they can remove Iron skin...).   

And "arbitration" will become a high level Void Defence mission with 1 life limit.    

Or we could all just play tank/invisibility frames, slotting in the ridiculous Adaptation overbuff, Amprex/Ignis/Plasmor and just laugh at the pathetic fools trying to play a frame with 4 abilities negated and 65 armor.  Yea sure Shock is a weapon.  And I also fart Fireballs.  If you believe a setup which requires single-digit IQ is the epitome of gameplay then Desert Bus must be the penultimate game that you should be playing.

Arbitrations are already plodding and boring mission that negate CC and overemphasize self-survivability.  Yay 300% buff on Nyx/Ember/Titania.  Guess you'll slot in a few survivability mods that are comparatively pointless to using an actual tank/invisibility frame.

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2 hours ago, Kainosh said:

What about Mesa? Her pistols are also Exalted weapons.  Want em to target Drones too?  Because that is what gonna happen. It will be foken unfair if Excal can and Mesa cant, so DE will let her in too.  And then she will Dominate.

I would just like to point out... again... that all the exalted class abilities EXCEPT Mesa can deal with Nullifier bubbles, even before the insta-disable drone part was added to it. The forums haven't ignited or the game burned down yet. Besides Peacemaker doesn't need to be able to target the drones because Shattershield is a powerful survivability tool without needing her 4th as well as Peacemaker is already better set up to toggle.

So why does DE "have" to make Peacemakers be able to target the drones again? There is no precedence that say it has to, in fact the opposite says its fine that the others can damage them. An acceptable limitation would be making Excalibur actually need to use the sword part of the ability (something that should really also be shared to the Nullifier bubbles but I digress).

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6 hours ago, WhimsicalPacifist said:

If you believe a setup which requires single-digit IQ is the epitome of gameplay then Desert Bus must be the penultimate game that you should be playing

You kinda Missed the point.    I was always against "mindless gameplay", and that is exactly why im against the idea of "Drone killing exalted weapon". Anyone can foken turn on his "4 mode" and run around mashing M1.    Its no different from "run around to pick up energy and then press 4 to kill all" style.  

 

 

4 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

that all the exalted class abilities EXCEPT Mesa can deal with Nullifier bubbles, even before the insta-disable drone part was added to it. The forums haven't ignited or the game burned down yet.

This "exeption" was a mistake too.  I still think that allowing Excal (and other Exalted ones) to damage Nullifier bubbles was/is unfair.  

 

If enemy is immune to Abilities, no Ability should deal damage to it.    Even if Ability looks like blade or staff.    Basic rules like this must never get riddled with exeptions. Coz that sht ruins game design.

Turning Exalted weapon into actual weapon is not a good idea too.   Weapons can be equipped by any frame. Only abilities are "frame specific".  Adding exeptions to this rule is a no go too.

I believe that adding exeptions to basic rules will make game cofusing and improper.  It is my opinion and you are free to disagree.

 

Pretty sure there are other methods to adress this "Self buff frames are to good for Arbitration" problem.   Like adding a dispel aura to A-drones that will remove self buffs.

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9 hours ago, Kainosh said:

What about Mesa? Her pistols are also Exalted weapons.

Arguably not, the only relation is that you can mod them separately (which I've always been against in the first place).

They don't equip like normal pistols as you insta-draw them, they don't aim and fire like normal pistols given you have a massive aimbot and huge damage. Peacemaker is very much an ability.

Exalted Blade however you equip like a weapon, you swing it like a weapon, same for the Staff and the Talons. They are very much a weapon.

Artemis Bow is also very much a weapon. You equip it as per normal, you reload the bow after every shot, the arrows behave like normal arrows. It is a weapon.

9 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Because if Exalted blade is a weapon, then Volt's Shock is also a weapon.

Don't be ridiculous.

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

Basic rules like this must never get riddled with exeptions.

Agreed, no exceptions.

Basic rule > Weapons work against the Drone.

Exception > Not weapons that cost energy, for some reason.

See how this exception stuff works both ways?

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11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Exalted Blade however you equip like a weapon, you swing it like a weapon, same for the Staff and the Talons. They are very much a weapon.

I think for most exalted weapons it does make sense to allow them to work to a degree, but it's still hard to justify since the goal of the drones it to change up combat strategy and specifically make things more difficult. Spamming the same medium-to-long range attacks in a slightly different area of a group you're already trying to kill doesn't really change anything in the case of exalted weapons (which admittedly is the same issue for most high end weapons as well). And if they work how do we justify not allowing other physical attacks generated by Warframes? Like Shuriken or Shattered Lash? Or Landslide or even Iron Jab? Energy is used to create those, but not necessarily to sustain their physical form once they leave the Frame. And if in theory they do then why would it be any different for physical Exalted weapons generated and sustained by energy?

I think DE may have just realized the endless nuances involved in the pseudo science of Warframe abilities and decided to not bother making case by case exceptions that the player base would undoubtedly dispute for months and years to come .

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

(which admittedly is the same issue for most high end weapons as well)

Exactly. How is it different to spamming Arca Plasmors or the Ignis or slide attacks with generic melee #12378

And, as a side note, don't just focus on Exalted Blade which frankly I'd be okay with just the sword part working. There's a Staff, a Bow and Claws that also suffer, including Titania's Archwing mode.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

And if they work how do we justify not allowing other physical attacks generated by Warframes? Like Shuriken or Shattered Lash? Or Landslide or even Iron Jab?

You don't equip them as a weapon? That's a pretty simple justification imo. :tongue:

If you run into a Drone whilst spamming Landslide, it takes literally no time at all to use another weapon and then get right back to punching. You don't equip Landslide.

Same situation with Exalted Blade or the Iron Staff requires you to unequip your weapon, pull out another weapon, shoot the drone, unequip that weapon and then reequip the weapon you actually want to be using.

Heaven forbid another Drone come along during that time.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Kainosh:

Anyone can foken turn on his "4 mode" and run around mashing M1

When I do that as Excal, Valkyr or Wukong I'm just a disco ball, most exalted weapons attack with E 😉 . I'm pretty much on the side of treating the drones like Nullies. It's just QoL. Stuff like landslide doen't lock you in a activate/deactivate stance for half the game. Exaled weapons aren't really that powerful anymore compared to our meta arsenal so there's not much of a reason to discourage their usage any more. That said, I can live without a change, usually don't build my frames around their exalted weapons.

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1 minute ago, W3zeer said:

usually don't build my frames around their exalted weapons.

Nor do I for the majority of them.

Unfortunately the fun the Staff provides is Wukong's only redeeming quality, so what else is there to build for?

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9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Exactly. How is it different to spamming Arca Plasmors or the Ignis or slide attacks with generic melee #12378

I generally agree, aside from Exalted weapons benefit from both weapon mods and warframe mods, and in the case of melee they also benefit from the combo counter so generally scale better.

I was definitely keeping all exalted weapons in mind with my perspective. I'm just saying none of it is as simple as "let exalted weapons work".

11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

You don't equip them as a weapon? That's a pretty simple justification imo. :tongue:

But for the logic that DE is likely using, the drone, like nullifiers, prevents power use to make things harder. How does the difference between throwing a physical Shuriken that cost energy versus throwing a physical Hikou make any more or less sense than the difference between hitting them with Iron Staff or Iron Jab versus using a Bo Prime?

Mechanically, exalted weapons may be more inconvenient because of switching but thematically the two scenarios are completely consistent with their pseudo science.

I don't think the drones were fully thought out when implemented but the solution should be in reworking the drones rather than just allowing exalted weapons to work.

Maybe something along the lines of everything should work against them but have a damage cap per attack? That could allow exalted abilities and weapons to work, but it would still limit the ability of things like Arca Plasmor from wiping them out while blind folded.

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Just now, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I generally agree, aside from Exalted weapons benefit from both weapon mods and warframe mods, and in the case of melee they also benefit from the combo counter so generally scale better.

I would disagree personally, given that normal melee can use things like Blood Rush and Maiming Strike for incredible crit scaling, or weeping wounds to reach 100% status chance easily. 

Then there's the fact that melee weapons are generally longer than the Staff, Sword and Talons. The Staff is the longest of the 3, and reaches 4m at max length. Heavy Blades start at 3m before you slap on Primed Reach for ~2.5x the range.

Plus, Exalted Blade struggles to scale the counter since the waves don't count and Valkyr has to recast Hysteria periodically so she can't scale very far. Wukong is the main one that can use the combo counter, and whilst he can do a lot of damage, I know I could do better easily with other weapons.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

How does the difference between throwing a physical Shuriken that cost energy versus throwing a physical Hikou make any more or less sense than the difference between hitting them with Iron Staff or Iron Jab versus using a Bo Prime?

I'd say because they're designed to be abilities and only abilities. If you equipped several Shuriken in your hand and had to aim and throw them it'd be another story.

As it is, you just press a button and toss a couple of out. I can't see that being viewed as anything but an ability.

The Staff on the other hand is more of a weapon than an ability. I'd argue that the "ability" portion lies in the summoning of the weapon, not the weapon itself. It's designed to be a weapon, one that you mod, equip and dedicate some time to using.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I don't think the drones were fully thought out when implemented but the solution should be in reworking the drones rather than just allowing exalted weapons to work.

I don't think anyone here is saying it's the solution to the problems people have with the drones, it's just the solution to the problem regarding Unique weapons and the drones :tongue:

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vor 17 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

Nor do I for the majority of them.

Unfortunately the fun the Staff provides is Wukong's only redeeming quality, so what else is there to build for?

If the staff had more exciting attack animations it could be more fun 😉 . But you're right, Wukong right now feels like a boring Inaros who refuses to die but wont do anything beyond that 😄 .

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Just now, W3zeer said:

If the staff had more exciting attack animations it could be more fun 😉 . But you're right, Wukong right now feels like a boring Inaros who refuses to die but wont do anything beyond that 😄 .

:scared:

The RMB combo is the most exciting attack animation in the game. Imagine being the Grineer and seeing like, a sodding Tree Trunk coming down on your buddy's head? Nothing in this game is better than that. Nothing.

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56 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

the fact that melee weapons are generally longer than the Staff, Sword and Talons.

I personally think the Iron Staff base range should be far longer than it is considering the lore of Wukong. I'm aware of the flaws of Exalted weapons which is why I "generally agreed" with high-end regular weapons being in the same boat in that scenario. Most of the Exalted weapon issues are inherent to the fact that they are just broken gimmicks to begin with and the repair should be started by reworking them entirely instead of a band-aid against one enemy. They are just copy/paste weapons with slight additions in most cases rather than providing unique gameplay for their Frames with any substance which is why I argue aggressively against rework ideas to every frame that involves giving everyone a dang exalted weapon.

56 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

designed to be abilities

In the end, Exalted weapons are designed to be abilities too though, granted ones that act like weapons. That comes with the good and bad of it and people are forgetting that. If Exalted weapons were created to provide more unique application that just uber-killer-death-maker that costs energy then they wouldn't be so easily compared to standard high end weapons for content balance purposes.

56 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'd argue that the "ability" portion lies in the summoning of the weapon, not the weapon itself.

DE would argue that the ability portion lies in it being an ability. Again, why I think they need more distinction from standard weapons mechanically to be worth it. I never build around Exalted weapons (I know you said you don't usually either) and I rarely use them in place of my other weapons for the exact reasons that keep being brought up. They just aren't really worth it compared to other high end weapons, and especially not at the cost of losing out on the rest of your weapons in the process (a fact that I think will become even more glaringly apparent when Melee 3.0 comes out and allows quick switching between melee and firearms on the fly).

I do recall DE saying they were working on some bigger improvements to Arbitrations. In the end I hope that it turns out the best for everyone, but i think these issues here and there will keep coming up in new content if the problems are fixed at the root instead of each branch along the way.

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Just now, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I personally think the Iron Staff base range should be far longer than it is considering the lore of Wukong

:inlove:

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Most of the Exalted weapon issues are inherent to the fact that they are just broken gimmicks to begin with and the repair should be started by reworking them entirely instead of a band-aid against one enemy.

Ah, but you mentioned DE's logic earlier. Do you reckon a full scale rework of Unique weapons to make them actually behave like abilities is something that's on the table? Because I, sadly, don't.

Hence why I'm pushing for them to work against the drones.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

In the end, Exalted weapons are designed to be abilities too though, granted ones that act like weapons.

Exactly my point, they walk like a peacock, the talk like a peacock... they are for all intents and purposes peacocks as far as most of the game is concerned. But it's actually a chicken wearing a disguise, and the drone doesn't care about chickens despite the rest of the game treating them like the peacocks they're trying so hard to be.

You know what that is? That's discrimination.

Image result for i'm a peacock gif

I'm making sense, okay. Just roll with it.

Basically, I don't agree that Unique weapons are actually "designed" to be abilities.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I never build around Exalted weapons (I know you said you don't usually either) and I rarely use them in place of my other weapons for the exact reasons that keep being brought up. They just aren't really worth it compared to other high end weapons, and especially not at the cost of losing out on the rest of your weapons in the process (a fact that I think will become even more glaringly apparent when Melee 3.0 comes out and allows quick switching between melee and firearms on the fly).

Even more reason that they should work. I'm tired of them receiving the short end of the stick. No Exodias, less available mods, energy requirement, complete loss of the entire combo counter upon deactivating the weapon... Meanwhile normal melee hits further and scales better (imo).

But yes, whilst I don't generally build solely around the weapon, that only applies to frames with other uses, like Valkyr, Ivara, Excalibur etc.

Wukong has no other use besides his staff, and he's the frame I play 95% of the time. For him I build for the staff, and only for the staff, because there's really nothing else. Defy is simply unneeded, and his #1 and #3 are worthless.

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