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Arbitrations feedback and the scarcity of endgame content


iHaku
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I wanted to write down my own feedback of arbitrations, which is very much connected to the current scarcity of endgame content in general.

What i wanted from DE to be put in this game is fairly simple: 
Missions that pitch me against normal endgame enemies so that i can enjoy the gameplay 
without having to wait 2 hours for them to level up to a reasonable level in any (or random) tileset
whenever i want. Normal endgame enemies for me are atleast level 60+, ideally minimum level 80+.

 

Why? Because i rather not play this game at all if the entirety of the gameplay consists 
of me fightning enemies that all die in 1 hit regardless of what weapon and frame im using. 
Hydron is not an endgame area in my oppinion. Its barely scrating it, if at all. . 
i dont feel like im engadging with the game when im doing that, it's boring.

 

The closest we had to this so far are the kuva missions, which are kind of a miss in that regards 
and we were only allowed 1 mission every so often. that is not enough.
(i cant take non-flood missions)

The other one is Sorties, which are great but 3 short missions a day i not acceptable as "endgame" in a pc game. please keep that for mobile phones.

To make one thing clear: i do not care at all for rewards. 
For all i care you could give me the normal mission rewards instead of this wierd stuff and i'd be perfectly fine and happy
doing the same mission with the same rewards but with actual gameplay. but even with the endo and all the things people are complaining,
im happy just playing against higher level enemies.

But here comes my biggest problem with arbitrations: you cant redo them if you completed one untill the next hour starts.

I like playing in public partys, regardless of what people often say how it's like. 
It's fun for me sometimes having random team comps and sometimes playing with friends.
it brings more variety to the game, and enjoy the easy access to public partys in general in this game.


However, i also dont like to keep people hostage, and a lot of times, if the team isnt well prepared or ill suited, 
people want to leave after 10 minutes / 10 rounds / 2 drills (or whatever the mission type sets) which is perfectly fine
and understandable since everyone has their own goals.

but please, if i decide to be a nice teammate and extract with my team (or because i dont want to play alone after everyone leaves/dies)
dont punish me for that by locking me out of playing another arbitration for 50 minutes.

i'm writing this down while being locked out by you of playing the only gamemode that can give me a long time enjoyment of the game
because it's the best gameplay that your game has.

 

Now keep in mind, this can change with fortuna. maybe ill be positively surprised with more endgame stuff to do, but i doubt it.

Edited by iHaku
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While I agree that Arbitration missions should be replayable, there is still plenty of challenge left in the game for veterans. Nerf yourself with MK1 weapons and no modded frame. Remember what it was like to be new again and fragile. I often find myself running secondary only with odd frame builds to mix things up. Play outside your normal play style can freshen things up.

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i dont find handycapping myself particularily fun. i enjoy trying to minmax the game to the best of my abilities and if i can break things. equipting objectively inferior weapons just makes me feel bad because i know that the content im playing isnt strong, its just that im weak.

 

if that's sometime you can enjoy, hey, thats great, but i cant. i just feel bad doing that.

Edited by iHaku
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you guys are missing the point. shes right. the closest we have to a challenge is endless, n we have to wait an hour before the challenge actually starts up. gimping ourselves is not how u create endgame. there needs to be content that one player cant do on their own. We need to be e xtremely overwhelmed while not making US any weaker.

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42 minutes ago, iHaku said:

i dont find handycapping myself particularily fun. i enjoy trying to minmax the game to the best of my abilities and if i can break things. equipting objectively inferior weapons just makes me feel bad because i know that the content im playing isnt strong, its just that im weak.

 

if that's sometime you can enjoy, hey, thats great, but i cant. i just feel bad doing that.

 

11 minutes ago, AresTheLegendary said:

you guys are missing the point. shes right. the closest we have to a challenge is endless, n we have to wait an hour before the challenge actually starts up. gimping ourselves is not how u create endgame. there needs to be content that one player cant do on their own. We need to be e xtremely overwhelmed while not making US any weaker.

My heroes ❤️

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*looks at sanctuary onslaught*....yep, no endgame content here. Seriously though, it sounds like you ought to just play a different game. Your post points me to the conclusion that you've completed all activities through to fruition and you're bored.

Kinda like a good tv show. You've seen all the episodes and want more....but that takes time to make. Warframe isn't much different.

I also question your motivation for seeking more endgame content. You built up a massive arsenal of powerful frames and amazing weapons just so you could fight enemies that make said frames and weapons...not as amazing and powerful in comparison? I just don't get it.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)MPC 2117 said:

I also question your motivation for seeking more endgame content. You built up a massive arsenal of powerful frames and amazing weapons just so you could fight enemies that make said frames and weapons...not as amazing and powerful in comparison? I just don't get it.

I build up my arsenal in order to fight stronger enemies that i otherwise couldnt. thats my motivation, to beat challenges/enemies that get stronger and stronger, by getting stronger and better on my own. currently, you dont need to be very strong to beat everything in the game unless you wanna put 2h+ in an endless normal mission (in which case you'd end up missing out on kuva flood)

it's ok if you dont get it. i dont get people who want to afk farm and just 1shot everything either. i literally cant comprehend how anyone whould want to play a snoozefest of no challenge and no engadgement at all, but that's ok! everyone can play however they want, thats what is great about games, i -just like everybody else- just wish there whould be more for me in this game which is why im posting in the feedback subforum =)

Some people need rewards, i dont. i play the game for the gameplay, that is my reward. if i whould want "reward" for throwing away time i'd pick up a second job in rl :P

 

16 minutes ago, (XB1)MPC 2117 said:

*looks at sanctuary onslaught*

ill go ahead and take calling ESO "challenging" at all as a really bad joke and disregard it.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XB1)MPC 2117:

Well it has your 'normal' enemies you wanted and starts at 60-70 which you stated was your minimum....

Still scaling is different their, so the enemies are weaker then enemies of the same lvl on Mot.

Edit: and other issues, but i dont want to talk about that here since this topic isnt about ESO. (just search for ESO and you will see quickly what those issues are)

 

Anyway... i think its really funny that whenever people want a challenge those to answers appear:

- Warframe is about collecting stuff (i partially agree, but that shouldnt be everything WF is about)

- You want a challenge? Just dont use anything of what you have collected in Warframe

 

Yes, there should be some sort of challenge that even is a challenge if you use the stuff you collect in Warframe (Frames, Weapons, Mods), because otherwise their is no incentive to even collect that stuff if you dont need it for anything. Why should i bother farming for endo to max out some Primed Mods if it doesnt even matter if i have them equipped or even better, i am not allowed to use them if i want some sort of engaging combat?

Edited by DreisterDino
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14 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Yes, there should be some sort of challenge that even is a challenge if you use the stuff you collect in Warframe (Frames, Weapons, Mods), because otherwise their is no incentive to even collect that stuff if you dont need it for anything. Why should i bother farming for endo to max out some Primed Mods if it doesnt even matter if i have them equipped or even better, i am not allowed to use them if i want some sort of engaging combat?

well said, i didnt really know how to express that in english.

Edited by iHaku
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il y a 33 minutes, DreisterDino a dit :

Anyway... i think its really funny that whenever people want a challenge those to answers appear:

- Warframe is about collecting stuff (i partially agree, but that shouldnt be everything WF is about)

- You want a challenge? Just dont use anything of what you have collected in Warframe

 

Yes, there should be some sort of challenge that even is a challenge if you use the stuff you collect in Warframe (Frames, Weapons, Mods), because otherwise their is no incentive to even collect that stuff if you dont need it for anything. Why should i bother farming for endo to max out some Primed Mods if it doesnt even matter if i have them equipped or even better, i am not allowed to use them if i want some sort of engaging combat?

I agree. It's why I find those "just gimp yourself hurr durr" posts completely out of place. 

If to have engaging gameplay you need to void your progression in a progression based looter then there's something wrong imo. 

 

And tbh i don't even want to open a long discussion about endgame. That's beside the point. I think DE will someday tackle the issue, it's just a long project. 

I just wish i had access to enemies at least partially leveled to the power i accrued without waiting an hour or more to get there. IE, Taveuni is really fun when enemies break lv 130 or so but you need to be jn there for like 60 odd minutes before they get there. I have a job ffs 😞 I don't have that much time anymore.

I'm a bit tired of mashing lv 60- mobs where a sneeze in their general direction is enough to one shot everything in sight... If anything Arbitrations (other than survival... Why did you #*!% with LS is beyond me) are fun because at least the drones make me actually engage in combat with lv 60s. And Interception and Excavation are really well done imo, the modifiers for difficulty are right on the nose 😄

I never had as much fun in a mission as i had in the Arbitration Interception that happened to be on the Grineer Galleon tileset, the one with the tower really close to the spawn points. That mission was hectic and fun and engaging for the right reasons - we had to chase out drones and emeies from the towers, and there were constantly one or more towers under attack, and the doubled enemy decryption speed made it all the more hectic. This game could really use some more missions like that. Really well done. 

Edited by Autongnosis
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7 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

I never had as much fun in a mission as i had in the Arbitration Interception that happened to be on the Grineer Galleon tileset, the one with the tower really close to the spawn points. That mission was hectic and fun and engaging for the right reasons - we had to chase out drones and emeies from the towers, and there were constantly one or more towers under attack, and the doubled enemy decryption speed made it all the more hectic. This game could really use some more missions like that. Really well done. 

personally, arbitrations made me apreciate excavations again. running frosts and slowly claiming and losing ground while putting up defensive "structures", knowing that if you step out for even a moment can result in death is extreamly fun.

i also had way more player interaction in arbitrations compared to any gamemode in the game.

ontop of things, it's really nice that if someone wants to leave, they can just die after 10 minutes. no more of this hostage situation bs that DE hasnt fixed yet.

and yeah, i agree. eventually DE will add more things for endgame for us to enjoy and for now im really happy with what we got, i just wish i could play them a bit more which is the primary reason why i made this topic.

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On 2018-11-05 at 1:03 AM, (XB1)MPC 2117 said:

*looks at sanctuary onslaught*....yep, no endgame content here. Seriously though, it sounds like you ought to just play a different game. Your post points me to the conclusion that you've completed all activities through to fruition and you're bored.

Kinda like a good tv show. You've seen all the episodes and want more....but that takes time to make. Warframe isn't much different.

I also question your motivation for seeking more endgame content. You built up a massive arsenal of powerful frames and amazing weapons just so you could fight enemies that make said frames and weapons...not as amazing and powerful in comparison? I just don't get it.

ESO is the furthest thing from endgame content. It takes zero effort, and we're only there to level, not for a challenge. Not at all for a challenge, not even a little bit. It's DE purposely and deliberately gimping the way we level our frames. There was no reason to mess with draco or bere. Now warframes take forever to level n the best place to get EXP (es0) is level 30 only, which is stupid. Its difficult AF now to find a party to powerlevel ur forma'd frames in, cuz everyone is busy leveling wpns and focus SEPARATE from Frames where leveling new frames is impossible. The whole reason party leveling was a thing was because everyone always had something to level, in one spot. DPS wanted to level focus, rhino and ev wanted to level wpns, and of course someone that wanted to level their frame.Now to powerlevel ur forma'd frame you either have to grind solo to do it (i dont want to spend time to relevel the frame ive mastered already, or have leveled already 2 times before, thats stupid and unnecessary) or find a party of ppl who have nothing else to do n no other reward to level with you. which is right next to no one. Why tf DE ruined that? must be their mission statement : No Fun Allowed on Warframe, Grindfest and Prime Access only. De needs to take the level lock off of ESO, it's only there to prevent the playerbase from leveling in the most popular leveling spot. only the 2 dps are actually dealing dmg and 2 dps isnt even required.

Edited by AresTheLegendary
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On 2018-11-06 at 9:56 AM, AresTheLegendary said:

ESO is the furthest thing from endgame content. It takes zero effort, and we're only there to level, not for a challenge. Not at all for a challenge, not even a little bit. It's DE purposely and deliberately gimping the way we level our frames. There was no reason to mess with draco or bere. Now warframes take forever to level n the best place to get EXP (es0) is level 30 only, which is stupid. Its difficult AF now to find a party to powerlevel ur forma'd frames in, cuz everyone is busy leveling wpns and focus SEPARATE from Frames where leveling new frames is impossible. The whole reason party leveling was a thing was because everyone always had something to level, in one spot. DPS wanted to level focus, rhino and ev wanted to level wpns, and of course someone that wanted to level their frame.Now to powerlevel ur forma'd frame you either have to grind solo to do it (i dont want to spend time to relevel the frame ive mastered already, or have leveled already 2 times before, thats stupid and unnecessary) or find a party of ppl who have nothing else to do n no other reward to level with you. which is right next to no one. Why tf DE ruined that? must be their mission statement : No Fun Allowed on Warframe, Grindfest and Prime Access only. De needs to take the level lock off of ESO, it's only there to prevent the playerbase from leveling in the most popular leveling spot. only the 2 dps are actually dealing dmg and 2 dps isnt even required.

That was the biggest load of nonsense I've ever read. Draco was changed because craploads of new or just plain bad players were leveling through frames and weapons without ever actually using them, which leads to poor player retention because people are just flying through their MR tests without ever learning how to play the game.

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my suggestion to this is to allow players to enter any instanced area at completion waypoints.  If you have a personal best of 4hrs in an MOT survival with level 2k enemies allow to start from that point with other players....so that it's not 4hrs grind to get there, and starting at your own personal level and potentially with others around the same....

 

Or simply allow for group voted game pause/saved instancing. 

 

Part of the tedious nature of what is viewed as end-game content is that it takes substantial time investment to get there, which most players can't do because of real life obligations or simply not wanting to sit in the same thing for that amount of time.  Allowing a "save slot" for key content by character would break this up and allow more players to experience a higher scaled push.

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb VorticoseLine:

my suggestion to this is to allow players to enter any instanced area at completion waypoints.  If you have a personal best of 4hrs in an MOT survival with level 2k enemies allow to start from that point with other players....so that it's not 4hrs grind to get there, and starting at your own personal level and potentially with others around the same....

Would definetly be fun to see how far you manage to go without having to do the "1hour-WarmUp" each time (which cant be called WarmUp anymore because i am starting to get tired then already ^^). And it would be also interesting to see if there is some kind of limit that nobody is able to pass.

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17 hours ago, (XB1)MPC 2117 said:

That was the biggest load of nonsense I've ever read. Draco was changed because craploads of new or just plain bad players were leveling through frames and weapons without ever actually using them, which leads to poor player retention because people are just flying through their MR tests without ever learning how to play the game.

Yet mr has nothing to do with learning the game. The tests themselves are more relevant. XP farming or leveling still isnt hard, but boring.  Most weapons in this game arent interesting enough and its the utter pointlessness of grinding xp with an ultimately boring weapon that drives lots of people away too. Before the weapon rebalance some months ago a lot of weapons were simply awful.

 

13 hours ago, VorticoseLine said:

my suggestion to this is to allow players to enter any instanced area at completion waypoints.

That’s called greater rifts in Diablo3. Blizzard has a great system, but then they have better enemy challenge mixes and difficulty based drops too.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

 

That’s called greater rifts in Diablo3. Blizzard has a great system, but then they have better enemy challenge mixes and difficulty based drops too.

And that's kind of the point I'm making of possibilities to change up the "samey" feel of endless runs, and I don't just mean A/B/C rotations

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