Please make Physique affect Total Health

[Wizardrous]

It's a virtually useless Aura right now. The only frame it truly benefits is Inaros (and even then, 99HP on top of 2500-5000 is pretty meh). Even Nidus only gets a crappy 27 Health from it. If it's only going to affect base health, at least give it a better value that 18%. When Vitality gives you 440% HP, what good does 18% do on top of that? Right now 6-9 seconds of Rejuvenation gives you the same HP as Physique does overall. Please make this mod viable to use, DE.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Wizardrous

[Knowmad762]

Since Inaros can currently have 8635 total health, you really think that Physique should boost it another 18% to hit 10189 HP? Or with a single Physique and Coaction Drift, he could hit 11398 HP. Or with a whole team of Physique and Coaction, Inaros would have a ludicrous 16838 HP. That really doesn't seem a bit broken to you? Yes, Rejuvenation is better than Physique is literally all cases, but Physique affecting total health is certainly not the solution.

[Wizardrous]

8 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

Since Inaros can currently have 8635 total health, you really think that Physique should boost it another 18% to hit 10189 HP? Or with a single Physique and Coaction Drift, he could hit 11398 HP. Or with a whole team of Physique and Coaction, Inaros would have a ludicrous 16838 HP. That really doesn't seem a bit broken to you? Yes, Rejuvenation is better than Physique is literally all cases, but Physique affecting total health is certainly not the solution.

That's a fair point, but I'd suggest the alternative of making the base Health increase something higher, like 120%; Steel Charge gives 60%, which is almost half as much as Primed Pressure Point, but 18% compared to 440% is less than 5% extra. Sure, 120% would make it 6.67x more powerful, but that's the kind of improvement this Aura needs.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Wizardrous

[Azamagon]

2 hours ago, Knowmad762 said:

Since Inaros can currently have 8635 total health, you really think that Physique should boost it another 18% to hit 10189 HP? Or with a single Physique and Coaction Drift, he could hit 11398 HP. Or with a whole team of Physique and Coaction, Inaros would have a ludicrous 16838 HP. That really doesn't seem a bit broken to you? Yes, Rejuvenation is better than Physique is literally all cases, but Physique affecting total health is certainly not the solution.

Since it's an aura: Make it add a flat amount of final health instead, perhaps? Still not great for Inaros (but he doesn't need more HP anyway, as you mentioned) but basicly everyone else could benefit decently from it instead.

[Sharkgoblin]

Use corrosive projection to help your team instead

[MiggyDeePH]

1 hour ago, COATTOQUALUNQUE said:

Use corrosive projection to help your team instead

The point is to buff an uncommonly used Aura Mod. Your suggestion is to use the generally-accepted, cookie-cutter mod. We have to make Physique viable in such a way that it can be properly contested with Corrosive Projection and other generally-accepted efficient Aura Mods. 

[Sharkgoblin]

2 minutes ago, MiggyDeePH said:

The point is to buff an uncommonly used Aura Mod. Your suggestion is to use the generally-accepted, cookie-cutter mod. We have to make Physique viable in such a way that it can be properly contested with Corrosive Projection and other generally-accepted efficient Aura Mods. 

nah i just go with the good ol corrosive projection at high levels and enemy radar at low levels, other auras are lame

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Since it's an aura: Make it add a flat amount of final health instead, perhaps? Still not great for Inaros (but he doesn't need more HP anyway, as you mentioned) but basicly everyone else could benefit decently from it instead.

That would help it greatly too, base +300 hp would be enough to consider it as a useful aura for pretty much all frames.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

If DE could make it +50 base health and let it be affected by Vitality, Vigor, etc. then it could be useful as you could stack it up to 4x.

[Knowmad762]

13 hours ago, Wizardrous said:

That's a fair point, but I'd suggest the alternative of making the base Health increase something higher, like 120%; Steel Charge gives 60%, which is almost half as much as Primed Pressure Point, but 18% compared to 440% is less than 5% extra. Sure, 120% would make it 6.67x more powerful, but that's the kind of improvement this Aura needs.

Physique originally boosted base health by 60%. In update 12.0, it was nerfed to it's current 18%. I have no idea the reasoning for this, but there clearly was a very deliberate reason. Interesting to note that this nerf was long before Inaros was even in the game at all.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

If DE could make it +50 base health and let it be affected by Vitality, Vigor, etc. then it could be useful as you could stack it up to 4x.

The problem with this is the many ways that health can scale, easily bringing this to omegabrokenAF levels. Run this math to its extreme: 50 base health, plus Coaction Drift would be 66 base health, alone. In a full team of Physique and Coaction, each frame would have 264 extra flat base health. Now, if that can be affected by mods, Umbral Vitality+Gladiator Resolve+Primed Vigor would increase that flat base health by 1170%. So now any frame can have an extra 3353 HP on top of their modded base health, including the "glass cannon" nuke frames that are fragile by design.

With all the scaling, they need to be really careful with changing this mod without breaking things, which is likely why they haven't done so already.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Knowmad762

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, Knowmad762 said:

The problem with this is the many ways that health can scale, easily bringing this to omegabrokenAF levels. Run this math to its extreme: 50 base health, plus Coaction Drift would be 66 base health, alone. In a full team of Physique and Coaction, each frame would have 264 extra flat base health. Now, if that can be affected by mods, Umbral Vitality+Gladiator Resolve+Primed Vigor would increase that flat base health by 1170%. So now any frame can have an extra 3353 HP on top of their modded base health, including the "glass cannon" nuke frames that are fragile by design.

With all the scaling, they need to be really careful with changing this mod without breaking things, which is likely why they haven't done so already.

DE could easily raise that to +300 hp per mod without any problems, it would still not break balance.

All what needs to be done is to make this work as a base addition at the end of all calculations.

[(PSN)negativ21]

19 hours ago, Knowmad762 said:

Physique originally boosted base health by 60%. In update 12.0, it was nerfed to it's current 18%. I have no idea the reasoning for this, but there clearly was a very deliberate reason. Interesting to note that this nerf was long before Inaros was even in the game at all.

 

The problem with this is the many ways that health can scale, easily bringing this to omegabrokenAF levels. Run this math to its extreme: 50 base health, plus Coaction Drift would be 66 base health, alone. In a full team of Physique and Coaction, each frame would have 264 extra flat base health. Now, if that can be affected by mods, Umbral Vitality+Gladiator Resolve+Primed Vigor would increase that flat base health by 1170%. So now any frame can have an extra 3353 HP on top of their modded base health, including the "glass cannon" nuke frames that are fragile by design.

With all the scaling, they need to be really careful with changing this mod without breaking things, which is likely why they haven't done so already.

Kinda skeptical as to who would go out of their way to take 3-5 mods out of their glass cannon/caster frame build (stuffed full of corrupted/primed mods) to add a plethora of hp mods..

Yes they might think adding (umbral) vitality as a good idea now, but I doubt they would completely rework their builds for coaction drift/a new aura/gladiator mods etc. This may only be broken for tanky frames, but even then that's a lot of mod space. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by (PS4)negativ21

[Wizardrous]

On 2018-11-05 at 2:23 AM, COATTOQUALUNQUE said:

Use corrosive projection to help your team instead

I always do. It doesn't make it less annoying when someone joins with Physique and all I get is 18 extra health.

[Wizardrous]

On 2018-11-05 at 12:44 PM, Knowmad762 said:

Physique originally boosted base health by 60%. In update 12.0, it was nerfed to it's current 18%. I have no idea the reasoning for this, but there clearly was a very deliberate reason. Interesting to note that this nerf was long before Inaros was even in the game at all.

 

The problem with this is the many ways that health can scale, easily bringing this to omegabrokenAF levels. Run this math to its extreme: 50 base health, plus Coaction Drift would be 66 base health, alone. In a full team of Physique and Coaction, each frame would have 264 extra flat base health. Now, if that can be affected by mods, Umbral Vitality+Gladiator Resolve+Primed Vigor would increase that flat base health by 1170%. So now any frame can have an extra 3353 HP on top of their modded base health, including the "glass cannon" nuke frames that are fragile by design.

With all the scaling, they need to be really careful with changing this mod without breaking things, which is likely why they haven't done so already.

I wouldn't even care if it gave +18 base HP that could be modified. But +18% stacking with +440% is crap. Also keep in mind that a whole team using most Auras is going to be pretty OP; a whole team using corrosive projection completely strips enemy armor. I think a good balance would be +20 base HP, that way the best a team could do (if everyone had Physique and Coaction Drift) is about double a glass cannon Frame's HP.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Wizardrous

[Sharkgoblin]

10 hours ago, Wizardrous said:

I always do. It doesn't make it less annoying when someone joins with Physique and all I get is 18 extra health.

they use that aura for 2 reasons: they dont know how S#&$ty the mod is or they dont want to forma the aura slot, i saw a nidus with rejuv once i almost threw up 

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 2018-11-05 at 2:25 AM, Knowmad762 said:

That really doesn't seem a bit broken to you?

No? The fact they have to build for that and the warframes a 1 button pony for a vast majority of the time. No? 

His EHP is nowhere near other tanky CC frames even with that build

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

On 2018-11-05 at 2:44 PM, Knowmad762 said:

The problem with this is the many ways that health can scale, easily bringing this to omegabrokenAF levels. Run this math to its extreme: 50 base health, plus Coaction Drift would be 66 base health, alone. In a full team of Physique and Coaction, each frame would have 264 extra flat base health. Now, if that can be affected by mods, Umbral Vitality+Gladiator Resolve+Primed Vigor would increase that flat base health by 1170%. So now any frame can have an extra 3353 HP on top of their modded base health, including the "glass cannon" nuke frames that are fragile by design.

With all the scaling, they need to be really careful with changing this mod without breaking things, which is likely why they haven't done so already.

And yet if a team wants that much health for that much investment (6 mods + Physique), it seems like something that would be balanced and actually worth running in specific situations. Right now the only time to ever use it is if you have a newly forged Warframe and Physique is the only aura with a matching polarity.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

15 hours ago, Wizardrous said:

I wouldn't even care if it gave +18 base HP that could be modified. But +18% stacking with +440% is crap. Also keep in mind that a whole team using most Auras is going to be pretty OP; a whole team using corrosive projection completely strips enemy armor. I think a good balance would be +20 base HP, that way the best a team could do (if everyone had Physique and Coaction Drift) is about double a glass cannon Frame's HP.

I agree.

There a very few (any?) situations where using a team composition like that is better than just using Gara, Oberon, Nezha, Harrow, Trinity, or other utility/tanking frames. So instead of ruining 4 builds, you just use a singe warframe that can protect the glass cannon and doesn't have to completely ruin their own build.

In sure there a very specific situations that exist where having more health and not damage reduction, healing, extra armor, limited immunity, etc. is better, but these are rare cases at best.

Maybe it's just me but I think it would be fun to see a team try and break health pools instead of just nuking the map.

[Wizardrous]

9 hours ago, COATTOQUALUNQUE said:

they use that aura for 2 reasons: they dont know how S#&$ty the mod is or they dont want to forma the aura slot, i saw a nidus with rejuv once i almost threw up 

I know why they do it, it just bothers me that when they do it's basically useless.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I agree.

There a very few (any?) situations where using a team composition like that is better than just using Gara, Oberon, Nezha, Harrow, Trinity, or other utility/tanking frames. So instead of ruining 4 builds, you just use a singe warframe that can protect the glass cannon and doesn't have to completely ruin their own build.

In sure there a very specific situations that exist where having more health and not damage reduction, healing, extra armor, limited immunity, etc. is better, but these are rare cases at best.

Maybe it's just me but I think it would be fun to see a team try and break health pools instead of just nuking the map.

Exactly, you get it! Having a good Trinity or Oberon gives the frames basically unlimited HP in most missions, so this wouldn't be broken at all if implemented. 

[Twilight-Knight]

Yeah this Physique mod is useless, even for high HP warframe. A simple idea of change would be just make it have function like Power Donation would be better but it still only a simple not useful idea

 

[nokinoks]

On 2018-11-05 at 3:25 PM, Knowmad762 said:

Since Inaros can currently have 8635 total health, you really think that Physique should boost it another 18% to hit 10189 HP? Or with a single Physique and Coaction Drift, he could hit 11398 HP. Or with a whole team of Physique and Coaction, Inaros would have a ludicrous 16838 HP. That really doesn't seem a bit broken to you? Yes, Rejuvenation is better than Physique is literally all cases, but Physique affecting total health is certainly not the solution.

That is bad logic, so if it doesn't work with Inaros it shouldn't work for all frames? Then put a cap when it comes to Inaros, though Inaros' shtick is that he has high HP and it's diminishing returns anyway, 16k HP doesn't really differ much from 7k HP if you have the right setup anyway, so why should other frames suffer because it's "broken" with Inaros? Then just cap it with Inaros and allow other frames to benefit.