Some weapons scale with enemy level... Whaaat ?

[dwqrf]

So, i'm not here to speak about the perfomances of this or this weapon (critical/status), against a ever leveling up horde of enemies, because for me, if you hit an unarmored enemy at level 0 or level 1000, you should do the exact same amount of damage.

But someone told me today some weapons were doing a different value of damage depending only on enemy level; weapons like the kohm.

I wouldn't really believe that, until i saw on a stream a kohm pellet doing 28 millions damage on a level 500+.

(Edit, no banshee in the group, just 3 excalibur umbra and a rhino, in index)

What ?

Edited November 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[Jezs]

That's probably the negative critical multiplier riven bug

[dwqrf]

no, that's not it. The riven was multishot, status, slash, and neg reload

[dwqrf]

They told me the damage multiplier of thoses weapon that adjust with enemy level doesnt work on Simulacrum, making it harder to check. Another one would be the torid.

Edited November 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[Kyoresh]

no thats wrong.

Either the person telling you got it wrong or you did. What they most likely meant is that some weapons "scale" good, which basically means they have such a good kps, ammo efficiency or CC potential. This would fit the 2 weapons you described

[Ailyene]

I tried out the Kohm in the index and it did the exact same damage regardless of enemy level when I was in control of Excal Umbra.

When it was in specter mode though, it seemed to just oneshot everything even if it would be impossible for me normally.

Its possible its not the weapon scaling with enemy level but Excal Umbra specter scaling with level?  Its stats seemed really weird, like it had less EHP than my Operator and would die in one hit even in the early game but it did things I could not do like oneshot each of the three mechanical bosses 20 minutes in.

[godhamster]

It is a spector scaling not the weapon
I can give hikou with only conceal explosive multishot firerate to operator in sortie and watch operator kill everything

[dwqrf]

Il y a 11 heures, Kyoresh a dit :

no thats wrong.

Either the person telling you got it wrong or you did. What they most likely meant is that some weapons "scale" good, which basically means they have such a good kps, ammo efficiency or CC potential. This would fit the 2 weapons you described

I understand what this mean. I know the kohm can be deadly because you can mod it for 100% status chances, with mainly slash, and a side touch of corro and it's great.

So I know, tha kohm "scale" great. But that not really scaling, that just not becoming trash too quick.

But HOW CAN YOU DO 28 MILLIONS DAMAGE PER PELLET, without any damage buff whatsoever ?

I'm talking about real scaling here, for only a few weapons. (im sceptic about it though, until i saw this damage per pellet number on his screen.)

Edited November 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[dwqrf]

Il y a 5 heures, godhamster a dit :

It is a spector scaling not the weapon
I can give hikou with only conceal explosive multishot firerate to operator in sortie and watch operator kill everything

I understand the specter, and the specter damage, and the bonus to damage excalibur umbra gives; but this situation i'm talking about is about the guys playing the umbra himself (not in operator) and shooting with the kohm doing insane amount of damage in a single shot.

[Synpai]

6 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I understand the specter, and the specter damage, and the bonus to damage excalibur umbra gives; but this situation i'm talking about is about the guys playing the umbra himself (not in operator) and shooting with the kohm doing insane amount of damage in a single shot.

Welcome to bugframe, Where sometimes specter scaling applies to the player when half of the warframe counts as a specter and state changes can be exploited.

[dwqrf]

Okay, i found the record of the video from yesterday.
 

Look at 06:57:30 to  06:58:30.

While the slash dot dont do insane damage, the pellet hit is particulary high.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Synpai a dit :

Welcome to bugframe, Where sometimes specter scaling applies to the player when half of the warframe counts as a specter and state changes can be exploited.

I claimed this is a bug or use bug, as i've never heard of that or experienced it myself, but this guy told me it always been like that since endless mission on warframe.

Edited November 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[dwqrf]

We are talking about a simple kohm with 3 60/60 mods and a riven to reach 100% status, played by a excalibur umbra vs level 620 (and 4 shield disruption in group). No buff whatsoever except maybe the rhino roar, but he is the index carrier.

[Kyoresh]

14 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

 But HOW CAN YOU DO 28 MILLIONS DAMAGE PER PELLET, without any damage buff whatsoever ?

with a bug. Thats the only way

 

[dwqrf]

This guy claims this is a feature of the game and always been like that, That some weaponw scale with enemy level (like kohm, torid) and some other don't. I believe this is a bug, since he cannot prove it is a feature. But he says that's normal and it happens all the time with the right weapon. I became quite upset since I learnt that, as in, after 2k hours, this is both a revelation and a sin.

 

He claims it's known, though. Nobody ever heard of that ? Can't find any info anywhere whatsoever, and forum seems dry about it too.

I mean, the guys just say : "The kohm scale great" , but damn, thiis is NOT my idea of scaling for the weapons in the game.

Edited November 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[Eirshy]

By the sounds of it, it's a bug with the specter scaling. Did he tell you how to trigger it? Because I'm gonna bet it requires you to not be host, to play Excal Umbra, and to do a bit of an operator dance.

No weapon has intentionally been enemy-scaled in the player's direct hands at any point in this game... unless you count Ramparts.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 3 heures, dwqrf a dit :

This guy claims this is a feature of the game and always been like that, That some weaponw scale with enemy level (like kohm, torid) and some other don't. I believe this is a bug, since he cannot prove it is a feature. But he says that's normal and it happens all the time with the right weapon. I became quite upset since I learnt that, as in, after 2k hours, this is both a revelation and a sin.

 

He claims it's known, though. Nobody ever heard of that ? Can't find any info anywhere whatsoever, and forum seems dry about it too.

I mean, the guys just say : "The kohm scale great" , but damn, thiis is NOT my idea of scaling for the weapons in the game.

He was bullS#&$ting you heavily. That's exploiting, not a feature. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 18 minutes, Autongnosis a dit :

He was bullS#&$ting you heavily. That's exploiting, not a feature. 

I truly believe this is a bug.

And I know for sure he believes it's a feature.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, dwqrf said:

I truly believe this is a bug.

And I know for sure he believes it's a feature.

No one can be that stupid.

You should probably report it to DE and link the video. Either they mange to fix it or they start suspending/banning habitual exploiters of the bug. Both outcomes are good.

[dwqrf]

il y a 38 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

No one can be that stupid.

You should probably report it to DE and link the video. Either they mange to fix it or they start suspending/banning habitual exploiters of the bug. Both outcomes are good.

I promise you, you can ask any french speaking people, the guy on this exact video is having a conversation with myself about this (from 7h02+). He tells me it's feature that affect some weapon. I do disagree, as i've never heard of it (twitch chat). After he and myself look for infos on the net and neither of us finds anything, I decided to ask the forum.

But i'm certainly not here to point the finger and say : "this guys is bug-using". I'm just showing you the gameplay of someone that just plays the game and think this is working as intended.

If i'm here, it's only to ask you guys if this is a known issue, or a feature. That said, i'm sure now a lot of people are going to use this, and this will get nerfed, but you cannot start banning people for doing something streamline that might or might not be "legal to do", if they don't even have a clue it's not working as intended.

Edited November 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I promise you, you can ask any french speking people, the guy on this exact video is having a conversation with myself about this (from 6h57+). He tells me it's feature that affect some weapon. I completely disagree, as i've never heard of it (twitch chat). After he and myself look for infos on the net and neither of us finds anything, I decided to ask the forum.

But i'm certainly not here to point the finger and say : "this guys is bug using". I'm just showing you the gameplay of someone that just plays the game and think this is working as intended.

He has to say he thinks it is a feature cos he got caught using it on a twitch stream. There is no possible way he can actually think it is an intended feature, not with those numbers from a pellet. Those are even hard numbers to reach with a very strong single shot weapon modded perfectly versus the most optimal enemy.

It is deffinently worth a report because the game really doesnt need exploiters.

[dwqrf]

But if this guys knew it was a use-bug, he probably wouldn't use it on everyday's stream saying to everyone it's a feature... you know.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Scaling weapons?  The dream.....

[dwqrf]

So. After a heated argument with the author of the video, which learnt about this forum's post and is angry about the fact some people might call him a cheater, for using something what he believes is a part of the game (aka, scaling weapons); I come back to this post to try to analyze the situation.

First of all, let's not judge anyone about this. The video I linked without the author's consent was just here as a proof of my sayings about this "bug" happening.

Now, we need to clear this mess :


- Is a feature ? If so, what weapons do benefits from scaling ? Why isn't that known, reported or explained anywhere ?

(Note, the author told me the simulacrum was not reflecting this scaling and that could only happen in a normal endless mission.)

Does the index changes the way your weapons behave ?


- Is this a bug ? If so, we need to narrow it down and find solution for possible fix. How did it happen ?

Possible reasons :
4x Shield disruption
Excalibur Umbra scaling with enemy level -> As client (?), transfering this "specter damage" to the live Warframe. On operator death ? (forced transference)

[trst]

There is literally no argument to have on this topic, go make a proper bug report on it and let DE sort it out.

If it's somehow intended then nothing will change, if it isn't then it gets fixed. Case closed.