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The only problem (edited)


(PSN)robi191291
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Introduction: 

The big problem in warframe it´s the combat. It´s a fact that one main reason because the people (new players until veterans) leave or stay in the game it´s the gameplay. And sometimes the gameplay is boring and the people leave the game for this. 

How is it possible? We have a great movement system, fun weapons, fun warframes, power.... but the enemies? The enemies are pretty annoying and boring. 

 

Do interesting enemies and you have a interesting combat: 

 This doesn´t mean that D.E need reduce our power, the opposite this do the power have more value and increase the pleasure of killing. 

  -Improve the AI. 

A bad AI broke the immersion, the fluedity and offer less satisfaction 

Constatly are stuck, run and no attack, comes in a row and no use the map properly, no have synergies, and no have a good reaction and detection...etc

 - Use all your potential

There are plenty the enemies that are interesting but they are forgotten or don´t take place in many missions. Like the hyennas (there is more), and speaking about the hyennas.

 - Less annoying tactics. 

There is a lot of units that knock you down and we need a warning when they steal the energy.

Fix the armour and the damage. No more bulletsponges.

And speaking about the damage, it´s frustrating and with a good damage scale, maybe the mechanic of the shields will be good, viable in high levels.. 

Please do more aggresive the enemys but put end with the oneshot dies. 

 -More variety in the design

Yo can create enemies that are buffers (damage,armour, resistance against status, speed, do the enemies more aggresive...) debuffers (reduce our movement, damage, armour...)

Nemesis enemies that serve the counter against the different roles of the warframes.  

Enemies that protect the rest others cure. 

Create different enemies with weak points that incentivize you to use all weapons (primaries, melee and abilities) Now that have automatic changes and holter speed is a good time. 

Repeat these changes aren´t to raise the difficulty, are for create a dinamic fight where you don´t feel that only wait a wave and you go from point A to point B. 

  -Sometimes a surprise it´s all that we need. 

Give a little buff a shadow, zanuka, 3g. And increase the spawn. And really i think we need the acolytes and the ghouls stay in the game, not a recurrent event. 

And play with the level design. Give us more long missions that end with minibosses, but with a system similar to the bounties. That you feel reward for the time. 

And play with the maps, like the rework gas city. 

Hybrid missions that combine archwings and regular gameplay. 

In the open world, zones to explore with archiwings. 

 

And no only the enemies: 

Please we need less mandatory mods, incetive different playstiles and not the basic statistics. This need come by default when you rank your weapon or warframe. And when put a forma the stats remain. Right now all the builds are pretty similiar. All have mods that want use, but not use because don´t have space. 

And DE really we need a quick access to the simulacrum, and a better map, a lot of times the enemies fall. And the new players need a mini tutorial about the mods.

And it´s possible create a quick acces to the mods. Something like mark this mod like favourite. And you have a slot of favourites. 

The set mods have potential to reward different playstiles. I like it the idea of combine differents set mods that give me for example survive and mobility (in my case)

 

No all power is fun, and not all it´s compatible with the squad. 

If something show the rejection of the ulti of revenant and garuda are we want active abilities, active gameplay. 

And in the last moths there is a problem with the people afk, and the people that leave the squads because other players kill everything. I don´t have a problem with this, but it´s a real problem. Surely no it´s popular but the range need a sofcap or something like that. 

Almost the only real acceptance that the range have it´s because the people want skip as fast ass posible the mission recive the loot and jump to the next mission or level up the weapons and warframes very fast. 

And i think the invissibility need a better and funny mechanic, and the multishot a new more simple with the shotguns.

 

Conclusion:

It´s not about do the game more harder or with more challenge, it´s about do more funny and dynamic. 

 

Edited by (PS4)robi191291
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I don't understand all the laugh reacts on this post.

His grammar and spelling might be poor, but he's hit the nail on the head with almost all of his points; in fact, every one of these points has been brought up repeatedly for the last few YEARS on these forums. Laughing at him is just plain toxic. Especially since he isnt the only one who's broached these topics.

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1 hour ago, Talonflight said:

I don't understand all the laugh reacts on this post.

His grammar and spelling might be poor, but he's hit the nail on the head with almost all of his points; in fact, every one of these points has been brought up repeatedly for the last few YEARS on these forums. Laughing at him is just plain toxic. Especially since he isnt the only one who's broached these topics.

Not sure why the laughter but can say there are a lot of us who disagree with almost all of his points. This game would be far less fun if the balancing described was put into effect and plenty of players on both ends of the spectrum would be upset/angry if all the work and time we put into becoming as powerful as we are was stripped away. I'm always looking forward to the next most powerful mod. Then even if they did balance it as he laid out it would just be resetting it as new more powerful stuff would have to come out and over time we would be right back at this point again. With out the promise of power growth there is no motivation.

There are a lot of players who agree with his wishes as well. He is not alone. Two large groups of players at odds with DE in the center.

 

Personally I agree with these:

-Make great again a shadow, zanuka, 3g... 

-Utilize enemys that actually you have in the game, with more frequent. 

-Create enemys with weakpoints. 

-Put minibosses and give us a surprise and break the monotony that sometimes it´s convert the constantly grind.

 

but hope beyond hope the rest never gains traction with DE. That would kill the game for me.

Edited by blackheartstar_pc
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hace 17 horas, Talonflight dijo:

I don't understand all the laugh reacts on this post.

His grammar and spelling might be poor, but he's hit the nail on the head with almost all of his points; in fact, every one of these points has been brought up repeatedly for the last few YEARS on these forums. Laughing at him is just plain toxic. Especially since he isnt the only one who's broached these topics.

Thanks, i edited the post, hope that now will be more clear and deep. 

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En 6/11/2018 a las 23:28, blackheartstar_pc dijo:

 I'm always looking forward to the next most powerful mod. Then even if they did balance it as he laid out it would just be resetting it as new more powerful stuff would have to come out and over time we would be right back at this point again. With out the promise of power growth there is no motivation.

 

It´s not about THE POWER. 

It´s about the combat that is frustating, boring and annoying. 

 

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hace 10 horas, blackheartstar_pc dijo:

We're just going to disagree. What you want this game to be and what I enjoy about it are at odds.

 

Ok, tell me what you like about combat? 

It´s perfect or the good enough to not change ANYTHING? 

If it´s so good why the people need to skip the mission fastest possible, why need to wait hours to play against enemies that give a challenge, why almost the unique challenge is with annoying tactics, do you think this is all the potential of the game, are you happy that the only reason for do the mission is a insanne grind because the game is stuck and the unique option to retain the people is put content behind hours of grind, that require you use broken mechanics and this way enter in a vicious circle? 

This is a problem now, but much more in the future. 

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hace 6 horas, GentlePuppet dijo:

We have eximus enemies that do exactly this...

 

The eximus do more things, constant knock downs, steal energy, in high levels have a insane armour and damage. 

Specific units with specific purposes this is the idea, but 100% there is people with better ideas. 

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On 2018-11-06 at 2:28 PM, blackheartstar_pc said:

There are a lot of players who agree with his wishes as well. He is not alone. Two large groups of players at odds with DE in the center.

This is pretty much the big underlying issue with a lot of balance suggestions.

For example: as I see it, nuke abilities are a problem / "problem" not because they can cleave through enemies (Excal does that too) but because they can do that over such a wide area - not helped by the fact a lot of the recent content centred around endless modes makes those abilities pretty much necessary. But for every topic decrying them, there are as many replies saying that it would ruin the game and make those sorts of missions take longer.

Some people like the challenge in the Orb Vallis, others find it annoying.

On and on it goes.

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11 hours ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

 

Ok, tell me what you like about combat? 

It´s perfect or the good enough to not change ANYTHING? 

If it´s so good why the people need to skip the mission fastest possible, why need to wait hours to play against enemies that give a challenge, why almost the unique challenge is with annoying tactics, do you think this is all the potential of the game, are you happy that the only reason for do the mission is a insanne grind because the game is stuck and the unique option to retain the people is put content behind hours of grind, that require you use broken mechanics and this way enter in a vicious circle? 

This is a problem now, but much more in the future. 

I love the combat in this game. some of the best out of all my 30 years of gaming. Comparable to a mixture of God of War and Metal Gear Rising imo. Then throw in the movement system on top of it, man it's good. I've been playing Warframe near daily for 3 going on 4 years now jumping back and forth between PC and PS4. I've done it all twice and will continue to do until they change something to the point the game is rendered unenjoyable to me. I hope that day never comes.

As far as why people rush missions, I have no idea why. Play anything that isn't endless with friends or on solo because of this behavior. Nobody is required to use broken mechanics just like nobody is forced to use certain mods (the mandatory mod argument). It doesn't help that there is a large group that pushes these ideas onto new players.

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En 12/11/2018 a las 18:04, Tyreaus dijo:

This is pretty much the big underlying issue with a lot of balance suggestions.

For example: as I see it, nuke abilities are a problem / "problem" not because they can cleave through enemies (Excal does that too) but because they can do that over such a wide area - not helped by the fact a lot of the recent content centred around endless modes makes those abilities pretty much necessary. But for every topic decrying them, there are as many replies saying that it would ruin the game and make those sorts of missions take longer.

Some people like the challenge in the Orb Vallis, others find it annoying.

On and on it goes.

1. 1 excal in a squad, and you have 3 people more killing, 1 saryn or 1 banshee and you have 3 people boring or afk. But think in nova too, have issues. 

2- What do you think, ESO is a hit or other meh? 

3- It´s annoying because is artifical.

4 Every day this growing, every day people leave the game.... every day the people want something more that only a game around the efficiency.  Eidolons, literally ESO, fissures...  

5 It´s a problem for DE sure, but do nothing is not the answer. 

Edited by (PS4)robi191291
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58 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

1. 1 excal in a squad, and you have 3 people more killing, 1 saryn or 1 banshee and you have 3 people boring or afk. 

Exactly my point.

58 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

2- What do you think, ESO is a hit or other meh? 

Personally I see it as a hit but not a bullseye: it can use tweaks to numbers like for efficiency drain, but the core concept is there and works.

59 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

3- It´s annoying because is artifical.

In what way? And what counts as "true" difficulty? Prior to nerfs (because I haven't done bounties or Torid farming since then so I can't comment on the current state), they had high damage but wouldn't one-shot my duration-only Ash, they had counters and CC abilities that one could avoid with careful positioning, they weren't bullet-sponges, they had a gigantic boost in mobility, they had a large swath of variety from Hyena models to standard foot-soldiers to nullifier osprey to those spider bots, their projectile-based weapons really emphasized mobility...what else are you looking for?

1 hour ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

4 Every day this growing, every day people leave the game.... every day the people want something more that only a game around the efficiency. 

And the point is, other people don't want a loss in efficiency or the power fantasy. If you were to dump on that, people would leave. If you leave it as is, people would leave. A lot of suggestions are plagued by that issue, so many suggestions like these become trade-offs, not solutions.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

What is false? 

The bad AI, the incosistency enemies, the boring missions, the artificial difficult... 

 

Yeah, a fair bit of those. ☝️

 

For example "fix the AI!" great idea in theory, a bit more difficult to actually achieve. We'd all probably like it, but it's not as simple as just going to the store and picking up a better brand of Corpus unit AI and just adding it to the mix. 

The interesting enemies thing... There's an old saying "familiarity breeds contempt", most of our enemies were interesting the first time we saw them. Remember crapping your britches the first time the stalker showed up? How do you feel about him now? When Eidolons were new, people struggled to figure out how to kill Terry. Now? Folks are able to solo him repeatedly in a Cetus night. 

 

The less annoying tactics, well that's a bit of a "Git Gud" issue. We have ways to deal with knock down and knock back. Some ignore them totally, others give a chance to resist. If you choose to not use any, then you are going to have issues. And really it's hard to scale enemies without ever running into a point where they become a bullet sponge or can kill you in a single shot. So if you want difficulty without, well, difficulty.... it is unlikely that you can get that. 

Variety in design is nice but pretty much everything you came up with, they have put into the game. And that just shows that creating novel things that fit into the over game is difficult. 

Regarding less mandatory mods.... LOL there aren't any. Prove it to yourself by taking all of them off and doing a low level mission. Players have decided that specific mods are very useful and so are likely to always use those, and others agreed with them. Know how many of my melee weapons have maiming strike on them? Not a one. Mainly because I didn't have one up until I got lucky with the acolytes. And by the time I got it, I'd already gotten comfortable with most of my melee builds and I want to see how melee changes work out before investing time and effort into new mixes. 

 

That I suspect is why many people used the laugh emote. None of us would really disagree with your general intent, but we can't agree with a lot of what you said either. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Prior to nerfs (because I haven't done bounties or Torid farming since then so I can't comment on the current state), they had high damage but wouldn't one-shot my duration-only Ash, they had counters and CC abilities that one could avoid with careful positioning, they weren't bullet-sponges, they had a gigantic boost in mobility, they had a large swath of variety from Hyena models to standard foot-soldiers to nullifier osprey to those spider bots, their projectile-based weapons really emphasized mobility...what else are you looking for?

Neither have we..... (PS4)..... 😉

 

Other than that, well said. 

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hace 20 minutos, Tyreaus dijo:

 

In what way? And what counts as "true" difficulty? Prior to nerfs (because I haven't done bounties or Torid farming since then so I can't comment on the current state), they had high damage but wouldn't one-shot my duration-only Ash, they had counters and CC abilities that one could avoid with careful positioning, they weren't bullet-sponges, they had a gigantic boost in mobility, they had a large swath of variety from Hyena models to standard foot-soldiers to nullifier osprey to those spider bots, their projectile-based weapons really emphasized mobility...what else are you looking for?

And the point is, other people don't want a loss in efficiency or the power fantasy. If you were to dump on that, people would leave. If you leave it as is, people would leave. A lot of suggestions are plagued by that issue, so many suggestions like these become trade-offs, not solutions.

Sorry don´t see orb vallis. 

But now you say this, i see more post about people have fun with this (many of my suggestions are there, starting with tweaks in the AI) and yes probably fortuna it´s not the place for this, but why is so difficult implement this in the game? why? 

The problem exist, and will exists if DE continue passive. This is not a battle is a problem. Maybe not for you... now.  

And speaking about ESO, when can expect this tweaks? with the rework of vauban, the kingpyn system... 

My suggestions are only suggestions, the points is reflect the issues. 

Are you agree with this or not? 

Edited by (PS4)robi191291
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hace 21 minutos, (PS4)guzmantt1977 dijo:

 

That I suspect is why many people used the laugh emote. None of us would really disagree with your general intent, but we can't agree with a lot of what you said either. 

 

My suggestions are only suggestions, the points is reflect the issues.

Only DE have the answer for fix the problems or ignore.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

My suggestions are only suggestions, the points is reflect the issues.

Only DE have the answer for fix the problems or ignore.

They don't. If they did, we wouldn't have the problems.

They are constantly trying to improve, but there's no magical wand that can fix highly complex problems. They're also a relatively small team for such a big game. That means resources are limited, and they can't fix everything, rework everything, create everything and maintain everything all at the same time. 

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hace 21 minutos, (PS4)guzmantt1977 dijo:

They don't. If they did, we wouldn't have the problems.

They are constantly trying to improve, but there's no magical wand that can fix highly complex problems. They're also a relatively small team for such a big game. That means resources are limited, and they can't fix everything, rework everything, create everything and maintain everything all at the same time. 

True, but... 

Compare how use the feedback with fortuna and how use with arbitrations for example. 

The people usually hate the long missions, in fotuna change this, but in arbitrations do more longer and etc And after the release we expect a big update with changes for the feedback, the only change was put a expensive blueprint for ayatan stars. 

One thing is be patient, i will be, other things is see how DE have other priorities. 

Edited by (PS4)robi191291
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26 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The interesting enemies thing... There's an old saying "familiarity breeds contempt", most of our enemies were interesting the first time we saw them. Remember crapping your britches the first time the stalker showed up? How do you feel about him now? When Eidolons were new, people struggled to figure out how to kill Terry. Now? Folks are able to solo him repeatedly in a Cetus night. 

Maybe. I played bl2 forever and ros for substantial time. Can’t say I got bored. Familar yes, but bored no. ROS benefits from constant love from Blizzard. Gearbox gave us op levels and digistruct peak. The game’s basic content, the story, environments and missions are so wide and varied that rotating thru them never got dull. Static maps. Familiar hunting grounds. Crazy drops.

Then TPS. The vanilla game struggled, but the claptrap dlc breathed life into it. It actually aged really well.

In both cases the AI issues were minor in comparison. 

Then we have half life or f.e.a.r. AI. Great stuff.

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