Next Open World: Does Lightning Strike Thrice?

[SenorClipClop]

5 hours ago, Tellakey said:

I'm sure I missed something. Anywho, as you can see, while there wasn't a technical drought of content, there was a drought of meaningful content, anything to provide veterans with an incentive to sink more hours into the game.

My point is that you said developing open world slows down the development of non-open world development for the game, and I referenced evidence to the contrary. Making open world content does not slow down other content or detract from the overall experience of the game. DE took the step into making bigger projects because the devs have grown, learned and improved since the start of their game and can definitely handle biting off these bigger pieces. What caliber of player any of this new content is designed for is irrelevant. In regard to your "but veterans" comment, providing incentive for veterans is always going to be a losing battle. Always. No matter how fast DE can make content, there will be intensive players who will consume all of it in a fraction of that time and then complain there's nothing to do. It's like when people binge-watch the new season of a Netflix show in a single day, then complain about having no more of the series for the next year and a half. Warframe could certainly do with more late-game content (though developing that which makes vets happy is its own rat's nest of concerns), but there are no real solutions to the veteran issue. Either the dev team pumps out cheaper high-level content at a rate that keeps pace with intensive players (hoping they enjoy it while also making impossible goals for less intensive players), or we accept that it takes longer to create content than to consume it and players will inevitably reach a point where they have "finished" the game and ought to take a break or move on.

Edited November 7, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[Tellakey]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

My point is that you said developing open world slows down the development of non-open world development for the game, and I referenced evidence to the contrary. Making open world content does not slow down other content or detract from the overall experience of the game. DE took the step into making bigger projects because the devs have grown, learned and improved since the start of their game and can definitely handle biting off these bigger pieces. What caliber of player any of this new content is designed for is irrelevant. In regard to your "but veterans" comment, providing incentive for veterans is always going to be a losing battle. Always. No matter how fast DE can make content, there will be intensive players who will consume all of it in a fraction of that time and then complain there's nothing to do. It's like when people binge-watch the new season of a Netflix show in a single day, then complain about having no more of the series for the next year and a half. Warframe could certainly do with more late-game content (though developing that which makes vets happy is its own rat's nest of concerns), but there are no real solutions to the veteran issue. Either the dev team pumps out cheaper high-level content at a rate that keeps pace with intensive players (hoping they enjoy it while also making impossible goals for less intensive players), or we accept that it takes longer to create content than to consume it and players will inevitably reach a point where they have "finished" the game and ought to take a break or move on.

You make some good points, and I have an answer with some concessions, but listen, I'm tired of this debate. It always crops up, it never ends well, and this is not the thread for it. So I'll have to reserve my answer because otherwise we'll be locked in a loop til doomsday.

[TheFranss]

No stop releasing new content. I want to finish Witcher 3 and 4 other single-player games.

 

Also give me Ceres landscapes. I wanna die in the waste made by Fomorians

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by TheFranss
Missed couple of things to add

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Sanxxieh said:

Just to say... neither the Plains nor the Fortuna are open worlds... they are just bigger "free roam" zones. An open world is something much different.

Not really. An open world game is something much different, but the zones are still open world features. Free roam doesnt really describe what it is, an instanced game can also be free roam in the sense that you can go and do what you like when you like, where you like. Even Diablo 3 is a free roam game and it doesnt have an open world. Open world more describes the fact that you can go seamlessly (not a must) through the zone, from surface to caverns below.

Even though these zones are open world it doesnt mean WF is an open world game, it is a game with select open world features.

[DrBorris]

Eris infested open world with a western theme would be the dopest of sh!ts.

Edited November 7, 2018 by DrBorris

[WarBaby2]

8 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Eris infested open world with a western theme would be the dopest of sh!ts.

Uhhh yeaaa... that sounds good. Including biomechanical horses, pretty please... and the outpost should either be some kind of mobile fortress or, even better, a giant train!

Edited November 7, 2018 by WarBaby2

[andrewd084]

14 hours ago, Lakais said:

Every time I stand in an extraction node and see a spire, no more then a click away in the distance, I want to go there. Maybe I'll find a portal that leads to true born Orokin who are not complete a**holes.

Spoiler

 

A bit (read: completely) off-topic, but I doubt this will happen. One of the most consistent narratives of Warframe's transhuman themes is that, instead of asking "are you still human when you're a robot/cyborg/AI/clone/mutant/whatever" like most sci-fi in this genre, it simply takes for granted that the answer is "yes" and then ruminates on what's left. The Orokin were perfected exemplars of the human species, ageless, utterly brilliant, refined into what they were over the course of centuries or millennia, bending the entire solar system to their wills, and all they had to do to achieve this was willingly forfeit every last shred of their own humanity. And not by becoming alien like the Tenno or twisted infested machines like the Warframes. In fact, the one thing they couldn't leech from the Tenno (or even the Warframes themselves, somewhere in there), no matter how much they tried, was their humanity. Despite all of Ballas's whining, his form has never been a clearer reflection of what he truly is than the one he currently inhabits.

For all the #*!%ed up S#&$ in this setting, the Orokin are the only ones who had no one to blame for what they became but themselves, and they're essentially the malefactors responsible for every single horror that plagues the system to this day. This does a lot of work for the game's thematic storytelling, and if they're going to compromise this they need to do it with extreme care and thoughtfulness. To simply introduce a "cool" Orokin would ignore the necessary conditions of what the Orokin fundamentally are, both in terms of the story itself and the telling of that story.

 

 

[RamPuppy]

I think were going to see more open worlds, and development of them will speed up.  They learned a lot making PoE, and even more making Fortuna - and things they learned on Fortuna are being applied as changes to PoE.  It's a learning process - each time they do it - they get better - and now that they will have a pretty solid construct they can build upon for future open worlds, I think we will see each open world take less and less time to develop, and with each open world getting minute improvements, we will see the ones previously delivered get better and better.

That being said - I hate infested maps - they are a PITA to navigate through, and there just so much going on visually it's easy to lose targets, etc... so the last thing in the world of Warframe I want is an infested Open World.  

[evilChair]

"Next Open World: Does Lightning Strike Thrice?"

fortuna isn't even out yet.

[Lakais]

12 hours ago, andrewd084 said:

  Hide contents

 

A bit (read: completely) off-topic, but I doubt this will happen. One of the most consistent narratives of Warframe's transhuman themes is that, instead of asking "are you still human when you're a robot/cyborg/AI/clone/mutant/whatever" like most sci-fi in this genre, it simply takes for granted that the answer is "yes" and then ruminates on what's left. The Orokin were perfected exemplars of the human species, ageless, utterly brilliant, refined into what they were over the course of centuries or millennia, bending the entire solar system to their wills, and all they had to do to achieve this was willingly forfeit every last shred of their own humanity. And not by becoming alien like the Tenno or twisted infested machines like the Warframes. In fact, the one thing they couldn't leech from the Tenno (or even the Warframes themselves, somewhere in there), no matter how much they tried, was their humanity. Despite all of Ballas's whining, his form has never been a clearer reflection of what he truly is than the one he currently inhabits.

For all the #*!%ed up S#&$ in this setting, the Orokin are the only ones who had no one to blame for what they became but themselves, and they're essentially the malefactors responsible for every single horror that plagues the system to this day. This does a lot of work for the game's thematic storytelling, and if they're going to compromise this they need to do it with extreme care and thoughtfulness. To simply introduce a "cool" Orokin would ignore the necessary conditions of what the Orokin fundamentally are, both in terms of the story itself and the telling of that story.

 

 

I said that partly as a joke. Hinting at something mythically rare. But to go argue with your chain of thought. Not all Orokin were bastards. The blame for the atrocities and their own downfall lies mostly with the small upper echelon, the Executors. That doesn't mean that they are singularly to blame. But for example the Mag Prime codex entry suggests that the general populace was not entirely aware of the Tenno's nature, and their mere existence was questioned. I would venture a bet that very VERY few outside the high layers of Orokin society and their retinue knew of the nature and history of the Sentients, only that it was some alien threat from outside who has come to exterminate us for who know why. 

Even if said as a joke, I would still not see it impossible to come across an Orokin born who has the most noble qualities of humanity. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Lakais

[Autongnosis]

Le 07/11/2018 à 05:11, Tellakey a dit :

So, how well do you see the open world module faring from now on? Will we eventually get tired of open worlds? After all, beautiful as they may be, there is only so much interaction with the environment and the current two we have are practically copies of one another with gently varying differences by way of gameplay.

😄

That rather depends on the quality of Fortuna. If they have managed to integrate it better and to give it a proper replayability factor i could see them continuing the development for at least one open area per faction (so 3 more, one for Corrupted/Orokin, one for Infested and one for Sentients). 

If Fortuna turns out to be PoE 2.0 then I'm not sure it's worth pumping them out so often. 

[wtflag]

The way "open world" works currently in Warframe is bad. Sorry but that is just the truth. I could be eatting my words in the next 24-48 hours if 4tuna is good. But I doubt so as fundamental problems remain with Warframe's implementation of "open world" maps.

Open world maps need to be persisted on the server if they are meant to be explored for hours. No one wants to have a 50% chance of getting kicked by host migration.

Player limits should be increased to 8 in open world maps because current year is 2018. No longer 2014. That also opens up the ability to host 8 player raid bosses, which is amongst the top requests from veteran players.

Currently POE is basically a modification of the standard mission maps. Yes you can improve it, but fundamental restrictions inherited remains.

In short, DE needs to look at open world from a clean slant and take the base template from MMORPGS such as Guildwars2 in terms of the freedom, exploration and questing to make a true open world map.

Edited November 8, 2018 by wtflag

[Sanxxieh]

On 2018-11-07 at 6:29 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Not really. An open world game is something much different, but the zones are still open world features. Free roam doesnt really describe what it is, an instanced game can also be free roam in the sense that you can go and do what you like when you like, where you like. Even Diablo 3 is a free roam game and it doesnt have an open world. Open world more describes the fact that you can go seamlessly (not a must) through the zone, from surface to caverns below.

Even though these zones are open world it doesnt mean WF is an open world game, it is a game with select open world features.

Just because the zones have an "Open World features", does not mean it is an Open World. Just like not all rectangles are squares, yet all squares are rectangles - a few features do not determine the whole thing, but the thing determines the features.

WF is an instanced game. The "freeroam" zones are exactly what they are - they let you walk around and have some minor interactions, but they are zones. Nothing but just another kind of an instance. That's it. ^w^"

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Sanxxieh said:

Just because the zones have an "Open World features", does not mean it is an Open World. Just like not all rectangles are squares, yet all squares are rectangles - a few features do not determine the whole thing, but the thing determines the features.

WF is an instanced game. The "freeroam" zones are exactly what they are - they let you walk around and have some minor interactions, but they are zones. Nothing but just another kind of an instance. That's it. ^w^"

As I said they are open world features in an otherwise non-open world game. If WF does add enough of them over the years it will become more and more of an open world game as a whole. Parts being instanced or not shouldnt really matter. ESO counts as an open world MMO yet every zone is an instance, same deal with GW2 and SWL. PoE is easily of the same zone size as those present in both GW2 and SWL, it just happens to be that WF only has one (soon two) such zones.