Revenet is not Trash

[Stygie]

I dunno what is up with the warframe community but I hinestly think some of you need to cleae your head or clean your glasses if you think Revenet and , by extension in this argument, Khora are bad. Lets start with Rev. My man has a way to drop enemy agro, a way to become invincible, and ability that does Percentage damage by passing armour, and a massive dps ability. He is immune most of times anyway. Build him properly and you have a monstrous survival frame or even dps frame. Heck he can be built tank as well. Just because playing him takes thoughtn unlike Rhino press one button be immortal or mesa press one button and turn in circles, doesn't mean he needs a gosh darn rework. It is not logical. Do you people even try these frames out? Keep in mind some of these frames may not suit your playstyle.

 

Khora is another one. She is every much a defense offense hybrid able to lock don and area to stand an fight but also able to be higly mobile. She plays much like if Frost and Nidus had a baby and it is very fun especially when usung certain weapons with her two and her new augment. She had cc, she has damage, she as heals, she has mobility, and she has agro drawing ability. How is this bad? Do you read their kits? Do you play the warframe or are you one of those followers who dont try anything for yourself? Maybe it because I take the time to play all my warframes. Maybe it is becuase i test a lot of things in and out of the simalcrum. Maybe because I love to vary my playstyle so much. Honestly, that isnt the point. It is just so frustrating to see some many people moaning and groaning to things that just so provincial. This frame is bad. Well have you put thought into their synergies? Uhhh no that is work. Then how can you say the frame is bad? This brings me to the Gara fiasco too.

Gara had 90% dr for all friendly targets that is alos and infinte damage scaling aura that ha sa push back and a stagger. She has a massive wall that grants he immunity on cast. She has a good agro drawing tool, she as damage, and an on demand knockdown. HOW IS SHE BAD? Just becuase she cant stop all the enemies forever means she is bad? Becaude you have to think about how to use her she is bad? I dont understand. The complexity of the new warframes is what makes them interesting. It is the community that burns them down to boring simplicities. Why? Becuase you rather do the mindless easy thing than to actually makes use of all the frame as to offer. Hurr durr 2 3 4 on mesa. 2 4 on Rev. 4 on gara. 1 4 on saryn. 4 on nova 2 if you are feeling less lazy. 3 on nyx or 4 . 3 on nekros hurrr durr. These qarframes are bad hurr durr I can't use them every where hurr durr. De can go take a fat on up the... you get my point. This lastly brings me to ember. 

Ember. A frame with cc, cc , damage, damahe buffing, lock down and denial, and even more damage. Did you know her fireball leave a resiable fire effect that can cc enemies? Did you know you can shoot through the flames left by her blast fro extra damage and did you know that synergizes with accelerant? Of course didn't becuase. Wahhahhaa my mindless press 4 and run got nerf Wahhh De is a bad at doing things wahhh Pablo rework this one and this ine and this kne waahh. I hate it!. Just learn the frames strenght and weakness and apply them were you can. Emeber is wonderful on excavation and defense missions and even mobile defense. But noooooo that would take thought and acrually building to pull off. All the community even wants to do is press ome button and buimd rnage and strenght call in the day.

Well there is my rant read it if you want i dont really care. She you thoughts below I guess but I know there is going ti be thise people qe say im wrong or im idiot for thinking this way. Really i dont care. Every frame has a way to be played and a place in the endgame. You just have to use that thing your skull protects to understand where they go and use them effectively.

[Artekkor]

I think most of criticizm of these warframes comes from either boring gameplay or lack of originality. Khora was meant to be a damage-switching exalted whip user, but that was droped.

Revenant is actually cute to play, he's basically a more fun alternative to nyx, although i just do not understand 3rd skill. I don't even remember what it does...

Edited November 7, 2018 by Artek94

[Razorv2]

Because some streamers and some poeple says revenant is bad, it doesnt make it bad. I really enjoy playing him but everybody seems to forget how to enjoy instead of smash and rush.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Razorv2
lul

[DrBorris]

I think it more has to do with him not having much of a kit. Sure, he does some damage and doesn't die that easily, but there is little flair to him. He is just kinda boring, which is sad for an Eidolon/Vampire Warframe. The entire Thrall concept is just wasted because DE compared him to Nekros's SotD when they should have compared Thralls to Spore and Chaos.

 

Edit: Good enough isn't good enough, don't settle for a Warframe just working.

Edited November 7, 2018 by DrBorris

[-Temp0-]

Remember its called trash can not trash cannot.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Having one god tier ability doesn’t make him good. Enthrall synergies still suck, the damage conversion on Danse is redundant as heck, especially with Mesmer skin active since it actively prevents enemies from continuing to attack you. And going without Mesmer is a death sentence. 

He is an EIDOLON frame. He should be a wave of destruction, instead we have a frame

who’s constantly hindered by his own poorly executed synergies and ability design.

Also, while I wouldn’t call Khora bad anymore she is definitely still pretty far off from being considered “very good”. Pets need better AI and that should fix Venaris issues, and strangledome just needs to go. It actively makes enemies harder to kill with an gun with projectiles instead of hitscan due to the enemies spinning violently around, and their always strung up so high you can’t even hit them with a melee weapon.

Gara isn’t bad, everyone who says so is wrong. Infinitely scaling glass wall health > weak ice dome.

 

[Soulcharger]

Khora is pretty good from my personal play, she is one of the few frames I have played that easy solo farms lvl 40+ survival/defensefor 1-1.5 hours (would be longer if I could sit still that long).

 

With Revenant, I have yet to build mine, from running with my brothers though he seems to be lacking in the party environment but does pretty well solo.  But again, will be able to comment more when I actualy finish building mine in 2 days 14hrs.

[ArchXDiablo]

I expected more from an Eidolon infused warframe tbh. Danse Macabre is the only skill he has that fits destruction and can melt lvl 150 corrupted heavy gunners relatively fast. His 1 should be able to summon vombalysts (capped at 6-8 if able to survive/damage scale properly) where upon death they turn into their ghost form, but instead they dash and explode a target. His 2 is very nice, his 3 is very niche. I'd have been happier if all his toolset was mostly DD. Eidolon stomp, Eidolon scream, Eidolon Air Bombardment, etc. Oh well.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

He does accomplish his focus of adaptability well enough. He works throughout the star chart and in ESO just fine. He has damage avoidance, crowd control, self restoration and adaptable scaling damage as well as further bonuses through synergy. I'm not sure what else you could need from him. If he can do everything, he obviously shouldn't be the best at any of it.

The pets have little reason to be immune to ally damage (as is often requested) since almost everything they provide comes with their death and he can keep controlling more and more enemies (for free). People complain about his 4th being boring but it has more involvement and synergy than almost every ability in the game.

Other than asking for him to be as good as the best at anything he does, what could someone do to improve him? You can't have a super frame with the full strengths of Nyx, Chroma, Mirage and Nekros all in one. Too bad.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

3 hours ago, Artek94 said:

I think most of criticizm of these warframes comes from either boring gameplay or lack of originality.

I think this is Revenants problem full stop.  He has two useful abilities, Mesmer skin and Danse Macabre, and none of them really feel super unique in what they do.  Danse felt like Mirages Prism pre-nerf except it can only hit enemies horizontally, and Mesmer skin feels like a really expensive and gimped Iron Skin that can't really deal with nullifiers at all.  At least thats how I feel about it.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Infinitely scaling glass wall health > weak ice dome.

Ice dome scales as well just like Iron Skin and Nezha's Ring, and can be healed with subsequent recasts, but even then I don't think these two abilities are comparable.  The globe has always been more about defending an objective or position just like Limbo's Cataclysm.  Whereas most people just use the glass wall to refresh shatter shield and build its damage up, or grant a few minutes of invulnerability/CC in a tight situation.  It doesn't have the same ability to defend an objective like those two do in an endless run.

Thats not to deny that Gara isn't a good frame though.  She is, she just doesn't serve the same purpose as Frost or Limbo.

Edited November 7, 2018 by (PS4)ZeroSection

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)ZeroSection said:

I think this is Revenants problem full stop.  He has two useful abilities, Mesmer skin and Danse Macabre, and none of them really feel super unique in what they do.  Danse felt like Mirages Prism pre-nerf except it can only hit enemies horizontally, and Mesmer skin feels like a really expensive and gimped Iron Skin that can't really deal with nullifiers at all.  At least thats how I feel about it.

Ice dome scales as well just like Iron Skin and Nezha's Ring, and can be healed with subsequent recasts, but even then I don't think these two abilities are comparable.  The globe has always been more about defending an objective or position just like Limbo's Cataclysm.  Whereas most people just use the glass wall to refresh shatter shield and build its damage up, or grant a few minutes of invulnerability/CC in a tight situation.  It doesn't have the same ability to defend an objective like those two do in an endless run.

Thats not to deny that Gara isn't a good frame though.  She is, she just doesn't serve the same purpose as Frost or Limbo.

Snow globe doesn’t scale. It just has a few seconds of invulnerability after being cast.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Snow globe doesn’t scale. It just has a few seconds of invulnerability after being cast.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Snow_Globe

Damage absorbed by it during that invulnerability period is added to the Snow Globe health...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Snow_Globe

Damage absorbed by it during that invulnerability period is added to the Snow Globe health...

Eh, still prefer Gara cuz you can control the scaling better instead of hoping an enemy targets something in the dome.

[Maryph]

Il y a 6 heures, Lucian_Adrion a dit :

I dunno what is up with the warframe community but I hinestly think some of you need to cleae your head or clean your glasses if you think Revenet and , by extension in this argument, Khora are bad. Lets start with Rev. My man has a way to drop enemy agro, a way to become invincible, and ability that does Percentage damage by passing armour, and a massive dps ability. He is immune most of times anyway. Build him properly and you have a monstrous survival frame or even dps frame. Heck he can be built tank as well. Just because playing him takes thoughtn unlike Rhino press one button be immortal or mesa press one button and turn in circles, doesn't mean he needs a gosh darn rework. It is not logical. Do you people even try these frames out? Keep in mind some of these frames may not suit your playstyle.

 

Khora is another one. She is every much a defense offense hybrid able to lock don and area to stand an fight but also able to be higly mobile. She plays much like if Frost and Nidus had a baby and it is very fun especially when usung certain weapons with her two and her new augment. She had cc, she has damage, she as heals, she has mobility, and she has agro drawing ability. How is this bad? Do you read their kits? Do you play the warframe or are you one of those followers who dont try anything for yourself? Maybe it because I take the time to play all my warframes. Maybe it is becuase i test a lot of things in and out of the simalcrum. Maybe because I love to vary my playstyle so much. Honestly, that isnt the point. It is just so frustrating to see some many people moaning and groaning to things that just so provincial. This frame is bad. Well have you put thought into their synergies? Uhhh no that is work. Then how can you say the frame is bad? This brings me to the Gara fiasco too.

Gara had 90% dr for all friendly targets that is alos and infinte damage scaling aura that ha sa push back and a stagger. She has a massive wall that grants he immunity on cast. She has a good agro drawing tool, she as damage, and an on demand knockdown. HOW IS SHE BAD? Just becuase she cant stop all the enemies forever means she is bad? Becaude you have to think about how to use her she is bad? I dont understand. The complexity of the new warframes is what makes them interesting. It is the community that burns them down to boring simplicities. Why? Becuase you rather do the mindless easy thing than to actually makes use of all the frame as to offer. Hurr durr 2 3 4 on mesa. 2 4 on Rev. 4 on gara. 1 4 on saryn. 4 on nova 2 if you are feeling less lazy. 3 on nyx or 4 . 3 on nekros hurrr durr. These qarframes are bad hurr durr I can't use them every where hurr durr. De can go take a fat on up the... you get my point. This lastly brings me to ember. 

Ember. A frame with cc, cc , damage, damahe buffing, lock down and denial, and even more damage. Did you know her fireball leave a resiable fire effect that can cc enemies? Did you know you can shoot through the flames left by her blast fro extra damage and did you know that synergizes with accelerant? Of course didn't becuase. Wahhahhaa my mindless press 4 and run got nerf Wahhh De is a bad at doing things wahhh Pablo rework this one and this ine and this kne waahh. I hate it!. Just learn the frames strenght and weakness and apply them were you can. Emeber is wonderful on excavation and defense missions and even mobile defense. But noooooo that would take thought and acrually building to pull off. All the community even wants to do is press ome button and buimd rnage and strenght call in the day.

Well there is my rant read it if you want i dont really care. She you thoughts below I guess but I know there is going ti be thise people qe say im wrong or im idiot for thinking this way. Really i dont care. Every frame has a way to be played and a place in the endgame. You just have to use that thing your skull protects to understand where they go and use them effectively.

Khora has been touched since her release, and she's quite fun to use, because her abilities are working well together.

Revenant is counter-synergetic and not really fun.
His one is countered by his four, because his four is killing the pillars of his one.
His two is an invincibility, and it's good at doing it, nothing more or less.
His 3 is a poorly designed dash.
And his four is also a badly designed ult with lasers pointing at the ground, because why not ?

Now in a group, if you cast his one while the target is being killed, nothin happen and you loose you energy.
Someone is using a whip, no more thralls, and now you cast your four without noticing the loss of your thralls because the number is diplayed at the top right corner of your screen and hop, no more pillars.
So you're left with a discounted rhino with a "dash" (lol)

They tried to make him original, but it's not, he got discounted abilities from some other frames, but other frames are funnier to use.

Now, if you're having a blast while playing it, good for you, but it's still a badly designed frame.
Much like they tried to do with Garuda, but considering the Teasing notes, they changed her ult and her passive wich is really nice !
 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Maryph

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

46 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eh, still prefer Gara cuz you can control the scaling better instead of hoping an enemy targets something in the dome.

But thats not the only reason Frost is better though for defending an object.  He has 360 degrees of protection and the bubble can be healed simply by recasting Snowglobe inside of it.  Not only that but it can have multiple instances and be put up in multiple places.  Its much easier to use a bubble in a defense mission than Garas wall, because you don't have to wait for enemies to group on it so you get your scaling going like with Gara's wall.  This is especially a thing in endless endurance runs. 

Honestly Shattershield is better than Gara's 4 for defending an objective so long as you can cast on it.  Shattershield + Snowglobe + healing from broberon if the target can be healed is super nice, and mostly overkill, but it wouldn't be warframe without overkill now would it.

Edited November 7, 2018 by (PS4)ZeroSection

[Madway7]

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)ZeroSection said:

Mesmer skin feels like a really expensive and gimped Iron Skin that can't really deal with nullifiers at all.  At least thats how I feel about it.

 

Last I checked they fixed this. Atm toxin cloud damage and grenades go through it, but nothing else as far as I can tell.

 

6 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

I dunno what is up with the warframe community but I hinestly think some of you need to cleae your head or clean your glasses if you think Revenet and , by extension in this argument, Khora are bad. Lets start with Rev. My man has a way to drop enemy agro, a way to become invincible, and ability that does Percentage damage by passing armour, and a massive dps ability. He is immune most of times anyway. Build him properly and you have a monstrous survival frame or even dps frame. Heck he can be built tank as well. Just because playing him takes thoughtn unlike Rhino press one button be immortal or mesa press one button and turn in circles, doesn't mean he needs a gosh darn rework. It is not logical. Do you people even try these frames out? Keep in mind some of these frames may not suit your playstyle.

Think I've talked about my problems with Revenant about 3 times now, but I keep seeing threads defending his kit pop up.

Rather than copy pasting what I've stated before I'll try my best to reiterate my gripes in hopes of possibly showing you what peoples problems are with him (at least from my perspective). I won't refer to the other frames you mentioned tho as I don't care about them enough to. (Ember is pretty bad tho, her kit seriously needs a tune-up)

 

1. Enthrall

His 1 suffers multiple issues. Since what the ability is is divided into different aspects/utility I'll describe my issue with each of them

As a distraction tool: Main issue here is that allies kill thralls faster than you can make them. Solo, I found them to be fine, not great or ideal (since the ideal playstyle is to kill rather than keep alive most of the time), but they work even tho they aren't 100% aggro pullers.

As sacrificial pawns for synergy: His synergies are pretty bad and they come from the over-reliance on thralls, being a single target ability really does not help this ability at all, you need to spam it to get to the cap if you're in a group and solo it depends on the AI and targets you choose whether or not they're effective on making more thralls. 

Pillars: The last change to them made them have anti synergy with itself. They have the ability to start sending out Phantasma alt fire projectiles that do impact damage, now it's ok for some extra CC, but it also makes enemies less likely to enter the "well of damage", since instead of pulling them in most of the time it staggers them away. .

 

2. Mesmer Skin

Mesmer Skin is fine for the most part, good even. The only real issue I find with it is that it makes other aspects of his kit irrelevant, which I have offered feedback on how to fix, but it's feedback that got ignored.

 

3. Reave

I really dislike the ability for multiple reasons, the UI for it is misleading as it doesn't tell you that the % lifesteal only applies to thralled enemies while the actual (not used on thrall) % is aprox 8% at base.

The lifesteal is made irrelevant for the most part because of Mesmer Skin. Shield steal is also limited to enemies with shields.

The cast time should be instant, as fast as it is when cast while using Dance Macabre.

They did make you be able to control it while moving, which is great, but you can't more vertically which would make it much better.

Regaining Mesmer Skin charges by Reaving through thralled enemies, which isn't ideal. Also for the most part (I only found 1 use for it) it was made irrelevant because in the same hotfix they made Mesmer Skin recastable.

 

4. Dance Macabre

The energy cost increase did not help this ability, it was a kneejerk nerf to the afk playstyle some people took with it, just like with Ember that was a terrible way to handle it. Rather than change or adding to the ability to make it more interactive along with the energy cost increase they decided to just nerf it twice and call it a day. If they adding something to it like focusing the beams by aiming or trigger something by using alt fire I might have been completely ok with it, but no, atm it's just disappointing that that is how they handled it.

It has an inconsistent range and attack ratio. The range constantly changing from longer range beams and closer range beams doesn't help it and the 60 degree gap (the area without beams) means it's not always doing damage, mainly to enemies further away.

5. Passive

Made irrelevant by Mesmer Skin and if both Mesmer Skin and your shields are down you are likely to go down soon after. As a "CC so you can recast Mesmer Skin" its range is too low.

 

6. Synergy

The synergies with the abilities are terrible. Minus the free cast of his 1 on targets stunned by his 2, that one is ok, not great, but just okay.

Killing thralls with your 4 gives a 50 shield/overshield pick up per enemy killed. This isn't horrible, but it's not good since shields are very bad in general without any form of damage reduction. Also this synergy is made redundant by Mesmer Skin. Also it's really hard to use this while in a group.

Pillars getting blown up by Dance Macabre seems more like anti synergy to me.

 

Well those are all my gripes with Revenant, I still use him sometimes, but his kit just feels half baked, I mainly like using him because I like the design of the frame, but not the abilities.

I wanted to start making an entire concept for a Revenant rework/revisit, where his kit works largely the same way it does now, just with a more active playstyle and things don't work against each other. Had some issues on Mesmer Skin and Thralls then I gave up because I realized that it was worthless, why take time working on that while the likelihood of it being read or taken into consideration is really low?

Edited November 7, 2018 by Madway7

[Conflux59]

5 hours ago, Madway7 said:

 

Last I checked they fixed this. Atm toxin cloud damage and grenades go through it, but nothing else as far as I can tell.

 

Think I've talked about my problems with Revenant about 3 times now, but I keep seeing threads defending his kit pop up.

Rather than copy pasting what I've stated before I'll try my best to reiterate my gripes in hopes of possibly showing you what peoples problems are with him (at least from my perspective). I won't refer to the other frames you mentioned tho as I don't care about them enough to. (Ember is pretty bad tho, her kit seriously needs a tune-up)

 

1. Enthrall

His 1 suffers multiple issues. Since what the ability is is divided into different aspects/utility I'll describe my issue with each of them

As a distraction tool: Main issue here is that allies kill thralls faster than you can make them. Solo, I found them to be fine, not great or ideal (since the ideal playstyle is to kill rather than keep alive most of the time), but they work even tho they aren't 100% aggro pullers.

As sacrificial pawns for synergy: His synergies are pretty bad and they come from the over-reliance on thralls, being a single target ability really does not help this ability at all, you need to spam it to get to the cap if you're in a group and solo it depends on the AI and targets you choose whether or not they're effective on making more thralls. 

Pillars: The last change to them made them have anti synergy with itself. They have the ability to start sending out Phantasma alt fire projectiles that do impact damage, now it's ok for some extra CC, but it also makes enemies less likely to enter the "well of damage", since instead of pulling them in most of the time it staggers them away. .

 

2. Mesmer Skin

Mesmer Skin is fine for the most part, good even. The only real issue I find with it is that it makes other aspects of his kit irrelevant, which I have offered feedback on how to fix, but it's feedback that got ignored.

 

3. Reave

I really dislike the ability for multiple reasons, the UI for it is misleading as it doesn't tell you that the % lifesteal only applies to thralled enemies while the actual (not used on thrall) % is aprox 8% at base.

The lifesteal is made irrelevant for the most part because of Mesmer Skin. Shield steal is also limited to enemies with shields.

The cast time should be instant, as fast as it is when cast while using Dance Macabre.

They did make you be able to control it while moving, which is great, but you can't more vertically which would make it much better.

Regaining Mesmer Skin charges by Reaving through thralled enemies, which isn't ideal. Also for the most part (I only found 1 use for it) it was made irrelevant because in the same hotfix they made Mesmer Skin recastable.

 

4. Dance Macabre

The energy cost increase did not help this ability, it was a kneejerk nerf to the afk playstyle some people took with it, just like with Ember that was a terrible way to handle it. Rather than change or adding to the ability to make it more interactive along with the energy cost increase they decided to just nerf it twice and call it a day. If they adding something to it like focusing the beams by aiming or trigger something by using alt fire I might have been completely ok with it, but no, atm it's just disappointing that that is how they handled it.

It has an inconsistent range and attack ratio. The range constantly changing from longer range beams and closer range beams doesn't help it and the 60 degree gap (the area without beams) means it's not always doing damage, mainly to enemies further away.

5. Passive

Made irrelevant by Mesmer Skin and if both Mesmer Skin and your shields are down you are likely to go down soon after. As a "CC so you can recast Mesmer Skin" its range is too low.

 

6. Synergy

The synergies with the abilities are terrible. Minus the free cast of his 1 on targets stunned by his 2, that one is ok, not great, but just okay.

Killing thralls with your 4 gives a 50 shield/overshield pick up per enemy killed. This isn't horrible, but it's not good since shields are very bad in general without any form of damage reduction. Also this synergy is made redundant by Mesmer Skin. Also it's really hard to use this while in a group.

Pillars getting blown up by Dance Macabre seems more like anti synergy to me.

 

Well those are all my gripes with Revenant, I still use him sometimes, but his kit just feels half baked, I mainly like using him because I like the design of the frame, but not the abilities.

I wanted to start making an entire concept for a Revenant rework/revisit, where his kit works largely the same way it does now, just with a more active playstyle and things don't work against each other. Had some issues on Mesmer Skin and Thralls then I gave up because I realized that it was worthless, why take time working on that while the likelihood of it being read or taken into consideration is really low?

You nailed a lot of issues that I have personally with the frame.  His kit is absolutely a mess.  Not all of his skills are bad as you pointed out, but that doesn't mean they're fun, useful, fit his purpose, or fit his theme.  If abilities cancel one another out I believe that is the exact opposite of "synergy"/"working together"/"cohesiveness" to be fair.

I'd also like to point out those saying he has a godly 4... it's not exactly terrible... but "god tier"... I can't agree.  Saying that, again he also doesn't need something extremely damaging specifcally to be fun, or useful.  He's a mix of ideas thrown together while DE was concentrated on other things so that we didn't have only two frames released this year.

I speak in analogies pls humor me.  Let's say you have a... "Lion" based frame. A frame that literally that looks like a Lion and is said to be a lion frame by the devs.  You'd expect it to do "lion" type things correct?  But... instead, it climbs trees like a leopard, then swing from trees like a monkey, it has the ability to maybe bite things which isn't specific to Lions only but it's a filler, and his last ability gives the player something that seems to fit "lion-ish"  .... but it literally cancels out one of your other abilities if you decide to use it. 

They literally had Eidolon blueprints (not only that, but are indeed the original concept creators) to use for the eidolon based frame and they turned him into a copy of nyx, hydriod, rhino, but made him look like an Eidolon and told us he's an Eidolon warframe... that's called "we're busy with other things just give it lazers and they'll eat it up."  Warframes have not been the priority of Warframe for a while and I sincerely hope that changes after Fortuna.

[Stygie]

I disagree. The whole point of his kit revolves around constantly destroying and controling much like the eidolons. You use his 2 get free quick casts of his one on stun enemies. Then reave through them for massive damage as he does percentage health damage PERCENTAGE and destored them without taking any damage at all and repeat. You van throw Danse macabre in ther but i really dont use it too much. It is some much more efficient to use his guns. And yes, if you use his signature weapon you would see he has the edilion barrage, phantasma ult fire, and the beams, primary fire, not to mention he is not full eidolon. He his corrupted tenno mixed with eidolon so of course his abilities are not going to be fully eidolon. You still arent thinking about it. Rev is a solo farm. Go do a survial or sorited with him and you will see that is the truth. He does it well too.

[Teridax68]

As others have mentioned, Khora and Revenant get criticized because they are largely perceived as boring and lacking in identity, not because they're perceived as weak (in fact, they're generally known to be quite strong). Khora is strong because she gets to spam 1 and kill whomever she likes, especially with her augment, but ultimately is a frame that does not provide much in the way of novel or interesting gameplay, despite having an extra pet. Revenant is strong because he can become invincible while also dealing a lot of damage, but his identity is nonetheless confused, with two of his abilities having little real impact (i.e. his 1 and 3), while his other two abilities dominate. Is he a vampire frame? Is he an Eidolon frame? Who knows, and it's clear that after DE implemented Danse Macabre, they didn't really pay much consideration to how it would interact with minion-mancing, which used to be at the core of his playstyle.

Effectively, what people want from these frames aren't buffs, because both do their job well already (especially since both Khora and Revenant deal insane damage), but rather reworks to their kits. Khora at this point is this beast tamer/living metal spider frame thing, and could use changes to her 3 and 4 to make them more usable, and Revenant may need a larger set of changes that reinforces his Eidolon identity, and gets rid of the vampire theme so that another frame may try to achieve it better. This could be as conceptually basic as, say, replacing thralls with a personal army of Vomvalysts, and finding ways to integrate them better with the rest of his kit other than providing bonuses on death.

[Lior55]

5 hours ago, Conflux59 said:

Warframes have not been the priority of Warframe for a while and I sincerely hope that changes after Fortuna.

Preach!!!

[Stygie]

But isnt the fun in the frame based on the player? I personally find Rhino's playstyle a snooze fest as well as Mesa's. But Khora is more interesting for how i can choose how i play her in the situation and I like Revenent because of all the managament he has to do to have success. Same with frames like Nezha and Limbo. They have many ways to play them.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

16 hours ago, Madway7 said:

2. Mesmer Skin

Mesmer Skin is fine for the most part, good even. The only real issue I find with it is that it makes other aspects of his kit irrelevant, which I have offered feedback on how to fix, but it's feedback that got ignored.

 

16 hours ago, Madway7 said:

The lifesteal is made irrelevant for the most part because of Mesmer Skin.

I do agree with this. I think it would be more cohesive if Mesmer Skin were a high damage resistance rather than immunity. Or go back to it not being recastable.

I used him for a while in Arbitrations yesterday and never had to use Reave for survivability. I used it for mobility to wade through groups of enemies without being obstructed, but because of Mesmer Skin my health never went down in the first place.

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

But isnt the fun in the frame based on the player? I personally find Rhino's playstyle a snooze fest as well as Mesa's. But Khora is more interesting for how i can choose how i play her in the situation and I like Revenent because of all the managament he has to do to have success. Same with frames like Nezha and Limbo. They have many ways to play them.

I feel that principle can only go so far. A frame with 1 health, no shields and no energy, who cannot take any action except press a button which kills them instantly, may perhaps be fun in the hand of one or a handful of masochists, but is unlikely to be fun to the vast majority of players. Khora and Revenant are obviously not quite that bad, but when you take a look at what they do and how they do it, there's not actually that much that makes them stand out compared to most other frames, and there's little internal coherence throughout their abilities. They may have one or two effects that are interesting or fun to use to most players, but a warframe is more than just two abilities.

[Soulcharger]

I am still not following why players do not think khora is fun.  Every ability is useful, every ability has its place of when to be used, and even the pet can use all 3 settings that adds extra flavor.  True in low lvl content under lvl 40+ mobs, she can be boring because the dam cat kills everything with ease so you basically put up circus tent and go use the bathroom.  Best part I find about here, is she is a party of 1.  Does not need any CC, damage dealers, tanky frames, or even energy providers ( assuming you have Zen Void dash).

Revenant on the other hand, I really can not speak for as mine is now 1day 18hrs out.

[Fallen_Echo]

19 hours ago, Madway7 said:

Snip

Finally some sense!

I know some people like rev or even love him but that doesnt mean hes in a great or even in an okay state.

Multiple problems are present and ignoring them doesnt help anybody, its like saying that wukong is great when even the seven admits he has problems.