Seasonal Exclusives

[GSGregory]

@The_Doc

There are quite a few clans (as well as my own) that thought that getting to 100 points would get you mods that would be offered later to the general public that didn't contribute in a lesser form.  Similar to how the top 100 in the informant event got the primed chamber and the general population of the game can only get the weaker Charged Chamber.  We thought that the rest of teh game afterwords would just get a weaker version after a certain amount of time had passed.

If we had known that the mods were going to be put into nightmare missions and gotten with barely any of the grinding and effort put into getting to 100 points in the event there would have been quite a few large clans that wouldn't have bothered to participate in the event.  Afterall, why suffer through the grind to 100 points if you know that you can just jump in a nightmare mission later and have a chance of getting them?

But that point still does stand:

People like getting a limited edition item that will NEVER be attainable later.  And to everyone who QQs because they dont have something: wait for the next event and content that you want that will never be attainable after that and stop worrying.

You're blowing out of porportion how many people really give a damn that you have a weapon that they will never get.

Wrong.

 

I release weapon x. Now weapon y. Haha weapon x sucks &#!. All your effort was meaningless. Limited edition will lose its meaning just the same if all they ever do is release the next better weapon.

 

 

 

You want limited edition? Why not be happy with a skin?  Event weapons like the strun wraith get a unique skin . Later everyone else gets a normal version of the weapon with a less stylized skin.

 

 

The main issue with the strun wraith compared to almost all other exclusives atm is that it is more powerful. End of story. The excalibur prime is simply different. The vandals except for the snipertron are barely better. There is a difference between rewarding people with something special and with something simply better than everything. 

 

As others have said how do you tell a friend he should play in the same time you have to explain that there are ton of better weapons he cannot earn. Creating a gear barrier with exclusives is the wrong way to take the game.

Edited September 10, 2013 by GSGregory

[CloudPies]

DPS only matters if the target survives the first shot, and since I tend to use Shred, I somewhat often get 2 kills per shot, and can fire almost twice a second so I'm frequently getting 2 or more kills per second. Someone with an Acrid might have a higher DPS, but they aren't likely getting kills faster than me due to the nature of how Acrid works (DoT). Someone with a Despair/Hikou/Kunai might with the right mods (modded to one-hit-kill), but their shots have travel time so there is a good chance that I might unintentionally be stealing kills from them. So that just leaves the Akbolto's, the Spectra, the Bolto and a bunch of armor mitigated weapons. Of which only the Spectra is hitscan, and is widely considered to be underpowered.

"You might say its good because you find it fun, but no one can seriously argue the weapon is effective for the map tiles we have now."

I used to play Sniper in SMNC. That game really gets you used to sniping at targets that are only a few feet in front of you. Moving on to this game is like shooting fish in a barrel. Certainly helps that I rarely need to even aim for the head to guarantee a kill.

Hi, Have you met twin vipers? and sobek?

Point of the matter is, snipetron has been removed due to it not adhere to 'lore'. We're not going to get it back, end of story. The remaining 'exclusive' weapons are either outclassed by something you can get easily, or very new, and will probably be looked at in future.

They really don't prevent people from attaining a weapon that is considered at a high tier, but more of a side or down grade. Which is where I think 'exclusives' should be, they look shiny, and its nice few mastery points, but they're not functionally all that great.

[Ageless_Emperion]

A ten page thread about people trying to invalidate the participation of others through empty rhetoric and emotionally charged statements. Bravo, another garbage whiner thread about exclusives, never fails to dissapoint. I guess that's why LoL and mobas like it have skins you can only get by participating in events and qualifying by being of a certain rank at the end of a season. The blatant ignorance in the name of greed and entitlement is strong here.

[GSGregory]

A ten page thread about people trying to invalidate the participation of others through empty rhetoric and emotionally charged statements. Bravo, another garbage whiner thread about exclusives, never fails to dissapoint. I guess that's why LoL and mobas like it have skins you can only get by participating in events and qualifying by being of a certain rank at the end of a season. The blatant ignorance in the name of greed and entitlement is strong here.

So to prove yourself the better man you take the high road of saying you all suck.  Goob job.  You probably only read about two posts to make that response.

 

You also made the point for us. LoL gives skins, not items that give the player an ingame advantage over others. Yes one is pure PvP and this game is not but they are adding PvP and having stronger weapons in pve still makes it easier for you.

Edited September 10, 2013 by GSGregory

[alphex]

A ten page thread about people trying to invalidate the participation of others through empty rhetoric and emotionally charged statements. Bravo, another garbage whiner thread about exclusives, never fails to dissapoint. I guess that's why LoL and mobas like it have skins you can only get by participating in events and qualifying by being of a certain rank at the end of a season. The blatant ignorance in the name of greed and entitlement is strong here.

This.

[GSGregory]

This.

Try the one above your post.

[alphex]

Try the one above your post.

The one above my post? 

 

A ten page thread about people trying to invalidate the participation of others through empty rhetoric and emotionally charged statements. Bravo, another garbage whiner thread about exclusives, never fails to dissapoint. I guess that's why LoL and mobas like it have skins you can only get by participating in events and qualifying by being of a certain rank at the end of a season. The blatant ignorance in the name of greed and entitlement is strong here.

You mean this one?

[Ageless_Emperion]

So to prove yourself the better man you take the high road of saying you all suck.  Goob job.  You probably only read about two posts to make that response.

 

You also made the point for us. LoL gives skins, not items that give the player an ingame advantage over others. Yes one is pure PvP and this game is not but they are adding PvP and having stronger weapons in pve still makes it easier for you.

 

This isn't the first time a thread like this came up, I have tried logic before and it did nothing. I didn't take the high road at all, the entire purpose of my post was to shame you and make you see what exactly this thread boils down to. I don't care for your opinions and the arguments that I have seen provided in this thread because the fundamental driving force behind all you say is greed and wanting something shiny that others have and you don't. The practice discussed here is an industry staple and I have yet to see a single game it has "killed" or "ruined". The simple fact of the matter is that you don't care how reasonable or well laid out the counter arguments are. You have already made up your mind and nothing is going to shift you from that position, therefore, arguing with you is pointless. You are an entitled brat and that is all there is to it.

 

Oh btw, I don't have all the exclusive gear in the game, I take the high road by not making threads like this or crying about how I am missing said items.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Ageless_Emperion

[kgb_cyborg]

This isn't the first time a thread like this came up, I have tried logic before and it did nothing. I didn't take the high road at all, the entire purpose of my post was to shame you and make you see what exactly this thread boils down to. I don't care for your opinions and the arguments that I have seen provided in this thread because the fundamental driving force behind all you say is greed and wanting something shiny that others have and you don't. The practice discussed here is an industry staple and I have yet to see a single game it has "killed" or "ruined". The simple fact of the matter is that you don't care how reasonable or well laid out the counter arguments are. You have already made up your mind and nothing is going to shift you from that position, therefore, arguing with you is pointless. You are an entitled brat and that is all there is to it.

 

Oh btw, I don't have all the exclusive gear in the game, I take the high road by not making threads like this or crying about how I am missing said items.

Shame on you, sir, shame on you.

 

The counterarguments aren't reasonable. They're stupid, and they miss the point. Strun Wraith is an exclusive weapon that reigns alone and supreme in a completely new gameplay niche. New players can never obtain this exclusive weapon, this exclusive weapon that is the only weapon that can reasonably accommodate a certain build and playstyle, the crit build shotgun. This is a toxic balance issue. Why do you hate this game?

Edited September 10, 2013 by kgb_cyborg

[CloudPies]

Shame on you, sir, shame on you.

 

The counterarguments aren't reasonable. They're stupid, and they miss the point. Strun Wraith is an exclusive weapon that reigns alone and supreme in a completely new gameplay niche. New players can never obtain this exclusive weapon, this exclusive weapon that is the only weapon that can reasonably accommodate a certain build and playstyle, the crit build shotgun. This is a toxic balance issue. Why do you hate this game?

So was braton vandal. It was later nerfed.

After nova's mprime nerf, the swraith is probably next on the chopping block. Don't fret tenno.

[Shadow_Creeper]

As it stands right now, most of the current community has :

1. A shotgun that is unobtainable and outright better than any of the other shotguns.

2. A sniper rifle that is unobtainable, is armor ignore, and is only (arguably) replaced with a mastery 7 clan weapon that functions completely different.

3.Ammo mutation mods that aren't obtainable anymore.

However new players do not have a shot at getting either weapon, or the mutation mods. This causes a problem where someone will create an account, see a bunch of people with cool weapons they can never get, and feel like they will simply never have the same gaming experience that other people had, which can be frustrating because they feel that they simply can never be as powerful as those other players no matter how much time and effort they put into this game.

I think we could possibly fix this when the game gets officially released, by having every event exclusive item that isn't purely cosmetic make a scheduled return in future events on a yearly basis. What this means is that people who made accounts later on, could still have a shot at getting all the same cool gear that us beta people have.

 

 

I completely disagree. If you were not playing at he time of the event then to bad. This isn't Dragonvale where everything comes back each holiday. The new players may have missed the Strun Wraith, Snipetron Vandal and Ammo Mutation mods but they will have the chance to get other event exclusive weapons if they continue to play. Also who knows the new ones may be even better. They just have to accept sometimes in life you wont be able to get every weapon because you started playing late. 

 

They have their down sides also. I personally don't feel is not like the Snipetron Vandal's mag cap is enough to make it a good choice in high level to end game content. The Ammo Mutation mods take mod space up which could potentially be used on something else. Also there is a chance the Ammo Mutation mods will be released as obtainable through drops in the future like the mods from Arid Fear event are now.( Unless I am mistaken on this last statement) 

[CloudPies]

Also there is a chance the Ammo Mutation mods will be released as obtainable through drops in the future like the mods from Arid Fear event are now.( Unless I am mistaken on this last statement)

I would expect them to be... haven't heard anything from DE that makes them sound like exclusives for the event... and they're only good for guns that have stupid RoF like viper, grakata, flux rifle

[CaptainohCaptain]

stupid RoF 

Stupid you. You are not getting the means of burst damage.

[NukaKV]

I'm really upset that I missed the Strun Wraith because of work, but...it's an exclusive so I missed out.

Sometimes you just miss out on things.

 

Though it would be nice if events lasted longer for people who get weekends booked.

Edited September 10, 2013 by NukaKV

[Liminal]

People need to get over themselves and stop being so stupidly selfish. 

Okay then, people who want the limited items they didn't get are selfish too in that case (what I'm trying to say is: that's both subjective and irrelevant).

 

It's not about selfishness, it's a business model. You are free to hate it, but "limited edition" is a concept applied in pretty much everything, and if it's still being used then I guess it must work.

 

It's the same with preorders: you can hate them (I know I do), but that doesn't give you the right to complain that the developer gave the people who preordered certain benefits, nor the right to demand those benefits for yourself too.

[CloudPies]

Stupid you. You are not getting the means of burst damage.

Now sure what I said to deserve a personal attack...

[alphex]

I'm really upset that I missed the Strun Wraith because of work, but...it's an exclusive so I missed out.

Sometimes you just miss out on things.

 

Though it would be nice if events lasted longer for people who get weekends booked.

the sling stone event was going to last until Tuesday but we finished it too fast 

[Grilleds]

Hi, Have you met twin vipers? and sobek?

Point of the matter is, snipetron has been removed due to it not adhere to 'lore'. We're not going to get it back, end of story. The remaining 'exclusive' weapons are either outclassed by something you can get easily, or very new, and will probably be looked at in future.

They really don't prevent people from attaining a weapon that is considered at a high tier, but more of a side or down grade. Which is where I think 'exclusives' should be, they look shiny, and its nice few mastery points, but they're not functionally all that great.

Twin Vipers are awesome guns, but they don't kill an enemy faster that I could already OHKO. Sobek's similar damage and better fire rate means it does when modded properly, but only at close range, and it can never utilize crits properly unlike the SVandal.

I get the reasoning. I don't fully agree with said reasoning, since 2 Corpus bosses use bullets anyway, but I do get it.

I feel that both the SVandal and the SWraith are top tier weapons. I have most of the weapons in the game too, so I'm easily able to compare various weapons to see how well they stack with one another.

A ten page thread about people trying to invalidate the participation of others through empty rhetoric and emotionally charged statements. Bravo, another garbage whiner thread about exclusives, never fails to dissapoint. I guess that's why LoL and mobas like it have skins you can only get by participating in events and qualifying by being of a certain rank at the end of a season. The blatant ignorance in the name of greed and entitlement is strong here.

How does reusing an event item once a year invalidate someone's participation? My SWraith doesn't magically disappear just because someone else manages to acquire one a year from now.

BTW, believing only a select group of people should have something, falls under greed and entitlement a bit better than what you are suggesting. I think the word you are looking for is Envy (they are synonyms, but have different connotations), which is silly since as the OP shows, I already have all that gear.

 

You are an entitled brat and that is all there is to it.

I feel the people who want gear they already own to be permanently off the table for everyone else are more entitled. But regardless, was it really needed to say that? Hopefully you did read the op and realize that this topic is proposing an idea, not just "begging for crap that you don't have".

So was braton vandal. It was later nerfed.

After nova's mprime nerf, the swraith is probably next on the chopping block. Don't fret tenno.

That doesn't completely cover the point of the person you are replying to though. Swraith is currently the only shotgun where using crit mods is actually a good idea. So for people who lack the Swraith, crit chance and crit damage shotgun mods are pretty close to worthless. Doesn't matter if SWraith gets nerfed to hell or not, its currently the only excuse to do a shotgun crit build.

 

I completely disagree. If you were not playing at he time of the event then to bad. This isn't Dragonvale where everything comes back each holiday.

And why is that a bad thing? I'm curious because that is what I'm trying to suggest to improve the game for release.

 

It's not about selfishness, it's a business model. You are free to hate it, but "limited edition" is a concept applied in pretty much everything, and if it's still being used then I guess it must work.

Something being used frequently in the industry doesn't mean it is a good idea. Subscription based MMO's were far far more popular than the Free-To-Play model until just a few years ago. Paying-to-win was a staple part of almost every MMO as well until just a few years ago. Doing what everyone else does isn't always a good idea, and it certainly isn't progressive. I pointed out another online game that uses the same model in the OP, and it seems to be doing pretty successful. So explain, why can't this game use the same model?

[Ageless_Emperion]

- text wall

 

Because the idea of items being exclusive makes them interesting. If there was an event to get any of the exclusive items again I would not participate in it and encourage others not to. In fact most people who already got the reward would not bother unless it was something that was used up. This also mires the game in repetition and allows for poor habits to creep in. Instead of making new exciting content the creators just get the free card to recycle so they don't need to make an effort. You know what a game like that devolves into? A dead-end game with no point in playing it. No new player is going to quit the game because they see people with what they will find were exclusive event rewards because they will know that they can get awesome stuff too. Most people who play games accept this simple and logical conclusion, it stands not as a deterrent but rather as advertising for the kind of things you can expect as rewards for your effort. There is a reason why this concept is such a large part of our society. Keep rebelling against it though, your weak failing in an attempt to demonize the concept is rather amusing.

[Grilleds]

Because the idea of items being exclusive makes them interesting. If there was an event to get any of the exclusive items again I would not participate in it and encourage others not to. In fact most people who already got the reward would not bother unless it was something that was used up. This also mires the game in repetition and allows for poor habits to creep in. Instead of making new exciting content the creators just get the free card to recycle so they don't need to make an effort. You know what a game like that devolves into? A dead-end game with no point in playing it. No new player is going to quit the game because they see people with what they will find were exclusive event rewards because they will know that they can get awesome stuff too. Most people who play games accept this simple and logical conclusion, it stands not as a deterrent but rather as advertising for the kind of things you can expect as rewards for your effort. There is a reason why this concept is such a large part of our society. Keep rebelling against it though, your weak failing in an attempt to demonize the concept is rather amusing.

Other game's have seasonal exclusives in events, where the events have pretty high activity. Most events in this game also have multiple rewards. I could really see this being successful and the main reason people are complaining about it now is because DE hasn't given it a chance yet. Like I said before, many times in fact, if this approach works for other games, why won't it work for this one? Nobody has given me a straight answer to that question yet.

Also don't act like the events are the only way this game grows. Most of the content in this game is outside of events. Even if DE never did another event, the game wouldn't be a dead-end since development would just be focused in other areas.

[Ageless_Emperion]

Other game's have seasonal exclusives in events, where the events have pretty high activity. Most events in this game also have multiple rewards. I could really see this being successful and the main reason people are complaining about it now is because DE hasn't given it a chance yet. Like I said before, many times in fact, if this approach works for other games, why won't it work for this one? Nobody has given me a straight answer to that question yet.

Also don't act like the events are the only way this game grows. Most of the content in this game is outside of events. Even if DE never did another event, the game wouldn't be a dead-end since development would just be focused in other areas.

 

Don't get me wrong, you can have seasonal events, I am all about tradition. Those can have reoccurring rewards. Just when they make events that are labeled with "exclusive" between those seasonal events, those prizes should be in fact "exclusive". I don't think anyone would rebel against seasonal events. In fact as the game gets older the pool of weapons will become so large that I would severely doubt if you would not find a regular weapon that would outclass the exclusives, its all simply a matter of time.

[Grilleds]

Don't get me wrong, you can have seasonal events, I am all about tradition. Those can have reoccurring rewards. Just when they make events that are labeled with "exclusive" between those seasonal events, those prizes should be in fact "exclusive". I don't think anyone would rebel against seasonal events. In fact as the game gets older the pool of weapons will become so large that I would severely doubt if you would not find a regular weapon that would outclass the exclusives, its all simply a matter of time.

Alright, I'll agree with you there, but only if the dev's specifically mentioned that they would be one-time rewards. The word exclusive is a little ambiguous by itself since technically seasonal items are also exclusive. That still leave's the Strun Wraith and any future weapons available to make returns in events. I believe Warframe should move away from the "one-time only" weapon rewards in future events as it would be less alienating if someone who missed it could always wait till next year. I also think it would greatly decrease forum drama regarding exclusives.

[LeoAtKnight]

Haha haaaaaa.....

But seriously, I'm neutral on this.

On one hand I like exclusives to be 100% exclusive so people know how long I've been around. Veterancy is a really nice perk, however,

I'm not completely against rotations of items. Many MMOs bring back popular items, whether they be cosmetics or gear from events. There is also the argument that these weapons give us more mastery exp than anyone else, which is not unfair now but could be incredibly unfair if DE decides to do something of benefit to Mastery (aside from equipping higher tier guns).

I don't know, I'm just rambling.

[Namacyst]

I also think it would greatly decrease forum drama regarding exclusives.

 

I think it would decrease forum drama if all those scrubs that feel entitled to get everything would accept the fact that some items were only obtainable if you where there at a specific time doing specific things for a specific amount of "points" to get a specific item as a reward for it and IF you were not there at that time... TOO BAD. Deal with it.

 

Wiki defines it as "Exclusive typically means not with other things or not including other things." That means you get exclusive Weapons not for doing normal missions or doing anything other than participating in a certain event reaching a certain amount of points.

 

So if you missed the Strun Wraith because you did not play at the time when the Survival event was live or you were too lazy or too bad to reach the 20 minutes or whatever reason... then YOU WILL NOT get the Strun Wraith UNLESS there will be another Survival Event at some point giving the Strun Wraith which is very unlikely but, of course, possible.

 

If DE decides to reward the Strun Wraith additionally (not as only reward because that would screw the people that did not cry rivers in the forums) in different, future Events... that's fine with me but i am against bringing back Exclusive items at later dates just because people did not take their chance when they could or did not even play at that point and instead do a crybaby-S#&$storm in the forums. We had enough of that in the past with stupid results that nerfed the Braton Vandal into oblivion or made the game a cakewalk after handing out shield/health per level because without the noobs died in millions so whining should never be encouraged or rewarded again!

 

Exclusive items are intended as rewards for the playerbase that already is there and not for the future to be players and you will see that newly joining players instantly fall into the first category of players that already are there when a new Event comes but they have no right or entitlement to get exclusives from past events if they came too late.

 

That's my opinion, live with it.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Namacyst

[Liminal]

Something being used frequently in the industry doesn't mean it is a good idea.

I agree in principle, but unless you have any metrics or solid facts to disprove the practice, I can't side with you instead of people who (unless proven otherwise) know what they are doing.

 

Subscription based MMO's were far far more popular than the Free-To-Play model until just a few years ago. Paying-to-win was a staple part of almost every MMO as well until just a few years ago. Doing what everyone else does isn't always a good idea, and it certainly isn't progressive. I pointed out another online game that uses the same model in the OP, and it seems to be doing pretty successful. So explain, why can't this game use the same model?

It's not doing as well as Warframe, so like it or not I have to believe WF has the superior business model.