Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

[000l000]

Il y a 7 heures, FrostDragoon a dit :

Depends on what you mean by "healthy." It would be really easy to argue that the economy is healthier with overpriced rivens in it because it encourages more plat spending, which results in more plat in the economy, which drives down the prices on (mostly) everything else. The prices themselves are simply what the median between what people are willing to buy them for and what people want for them, so if people agree they are overpriced, they just have to stop buying until prices come down.

False, prices at the moment are the median of nothing at all. Only the ovehyped items have broken prices, most things you can buy have median prices. And as i said the only reason why you were spending two or three times the usual price is because some lazy and greedy players were buying at low cost and selling again at high cost, nothing else. When it comes to rivens it's even more ridiculous, there are way more sellers than actual buyers so the offer/demand argument isn't even relevant.

Even rarity doesn't matter since they're not selling what they farm, but only what they're buying. Sure people can decide to stop buying, the same way people can decide to stop buying microtransactions or cheap DLCs but we all know that will never happen cause most consumers aren't wise enough and modern society uses frustration to make you buy anything at any price, just check how many people are complaining because you hav to wait a few days before you get Garuda - There's no excuse to make plat out of plat, it's not healthy in real life so i don't see why it would be healthy in a game.

We're here to have fun so greedy players shouldn't be a thing, it's just more toxicity, and we don't need more of that these days. Making rivens tradeable once and we'll get rid of that definitely.

[bibmobello]

58 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

False, prices at the moment are the median of nothing at all. Only the ovehyped items have broken prices, most things you can buy have median prices. And as i said the only reason why you were spending two or three times the usual price is because some lazy and greedy players were buying at low cost and selling again at high cost, nothing else. When it comes to rivens it's even more ridiculous, there are way more sellers than actual buyers so the offer/demand argument isn't even relevant.

Even rarity doesn't matter since they're not selling what they farm, but only what they're buying. Sure people can decide to stop buying, the same way people can decide to stop buying microtransactions or cheap DLCs but we all know that will never happen cause most consumers aren't wise enough and modern society uses frustration to make you buy anything at any price, just check how many people are complaining because you hav to wait a few days before you get Garuda - There's no excuse to make plat out of plat, it's not healthy in real life so i don't see why it would be healthy in a game with a virtual money.

With the only difference in real life if you are "healthy" you have a Ferrari... here instead you  jump around with your pricey prisma fairy wings!

The truth is that the riven generation is no random at all, overall for not melee weapons.

You will get (much more) often:

Damage to Faction ,Fire Rate (x2 for Bows), Magazine Capacity ,Ammo Maximum ,Flight Speed, Reload Speed, Weapon Recoil and zoom than the other useful stats...

For example normally you should have the 0,06% to obtain multishot, damage and critical chance and this is already hard, add the negative stat and the percentage becomes really low because you want only zoom, recoil or flight speed, ok sometimes damage to faction, 4/15 the percentage becomes 0.006%...

Obviously it was too easy for DE so they added more probability for the crappy useless stats, i think you have a 0.001% or less to have a god riven...

You need to own a riven for a good weapon, there are thousand weapons in warframe and most of them are pure crap even with a riven and you have more chance to get a melee than a gun and harder is to find rifle or shotguns ...

Now you can understand why people sell 4000 plat a god riven, maybe because they have a new job as virtual ninjas... or maybe because they don't understand that it's useless to sell a Kohm riven with -120% status duration 4000 plat...

[FrostDragoon]

You have a socialistic sense of economics. No wonder you're flustered by this.

Quote

False, prices at the moment are the median of nothing at all. 

I don't see how you can claim this with any credibility or rationale. There is an upper limit to what people will pay, and people will try to sell as high as they can get away with. The prices are in the middle. That's how barter economies work in these games. You can argue that people are paying too much all day, but that's based on your subjective valuation of what something is worth. The market apparently disagrees with your valuation, which is why the prices are higher than you would like. This is Economics 101 stuff. Not sure where you think there's room to argue.

[(PSN)nating51]

23 hours ago, Lizard_Lick said:

make rivens non-tradeable before prices reach a value of a used car.

problem solved.

It could be a solution. Or maybe make rivens tradeable only when they're veiled.

[(PSN)Dread_Maximus]

On 2018-11-08 at 9:55 PM, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

I think the intention here is to keep it so you don't have to use all 4 dual stat mods. A hit here could require you to add another element and greatly decrease the amount of a particular status effect you're looking for. 100% status with only corrosive is much better than 100% status with corrosive heat.

that's completely wrong. 100% status with only corrosive on a purely elemental weapon is just going to get you overstripping to the point where you do less damage on the target since the damage bonus from corrosive on the ferrite and the inherent radiation on the alloy are gone. 100% status with corrosive heat is significantly better because you're reducing armor without overstripping while simultaneously getting a damage bonus on flesh thanks to the heat. In the case of the mara detron if you run all 4 dual stats you get the inherent radiation and the added corrosive & blast. If you got to 100% with just radiation and corrosive you'd just overstrip everything and lose the damage bonus from both elements.

[(PSN)buddysball7]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Dread_Maximus said:

that's completely wrong. 100% status with only corrosive on a purely elemental weapon is just going to get you overstripping to the point where you do less damage on the target since the damage bonus from corrosive is on the ferrite and the inherent radiation on alloy is gone. 100% status with corrosive heat is good because you're reducing armor without overstripping while simultaneously getting a damage bonus on flesh thanks to the heat.

LOL all i can say

[(PSN)xSweep66]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Dread_Maximus said:

that's completely wrong. 100% status with only corrosive on a purely elemental weapon is just going to get you overstripping to the point where you do less damage on the target since the damage bonus from corrosive on the ferrite and the inherent radiation on the alloy are gone. 100% status with corrosive heat is significantly better because you're reducing armor without overstripping while simultaneously getting a damage bonus on flesh thanks to the heat. In the case of the mara detron if you run all 4 dual stats you get the inherent radiation and the added corrosive & blast. If you got to 100% with just radiation and corrosive you'd just overstrip everything and lose the damage bonus from both elements.

Run more slash?

[bibmobello]

7 hours ago, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

Run more slash?

You can run more slash if a weapon has some slash and slash proc damage is based on base damage, if you have a low base damage you do nothing.

[voltocitygel]

Great changes, but they should definitely happen more often.

One thing that weirded me out about these changes: dread disposition went up. My riven's crit chance stat went down. I used to have 211 chance, now I'm just below 200. Not a big change, but I'm still confused. 

[(PSN)xSweep66]

2 hours ago, bibmobello said:

You can run more slash if a weapon has some slash and slash proc damage is based on base damage, if you have a low base damage you do nothing.

Oh dear I thought we were talking about the Kohm there. Disregard my horrible post lol. My apologies, it was far too late for me to be awake.

And to further laugh at myself the guy I was replying to earlier was ultimately right about overstripping armor having a negative outcome on DPS. I think I should have clarified in the much older post that a pure corrosive build will perform better at specifically stripping armor than a build that requires more dilution from other 60/60's.

[Eljureo]

Da hell what is all this price complaining going on? 

Rivens are priced in accordance to demand for them. Aint no riven being sold for more than someone is willing to pay.

This is like people complaining IPhones are to expensive. Don't like it? Buy any other phone.

Meanwhile rivens are used to make strong weapons with low popularity even stronger.

You don't see 2k Acrid rivens.

Power of rivens should be adjusted continually until some of them lame weapons become viable.

And if some weapon is not viable with a 5/5 disposition? Then it needs a buff.

Using a continually adjusted system, we will soon see the really unpopular weapons come through with buffs.

[bibmobello]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

Oh dear I thought we were talking about the Kohm there. Disregard my horrible post lol. My apologies, it was far too late for me to be awake.

And to further laugh at myself the guy I was replying to earlier was ultimately right about overstripping armor having a negative outcome on DPS. I think I should have clarified in the much older post that a pure corrosive building will perform better at specifically stripping armor than a build that requires more dilution from other 60/60's.

I Think it depends on what level you are talking about and what enemy. If you strip too armor you will lose bonus on flesh and if you have a Nox or a Bombard radiation will make more damage, for stripping you will use Corrosive Projection. Puncture, radiation and viral will make the max bonus damage on alloy armored enemies, i think totally you gain a +175% bonus, with only 1 CP you will deal much more damage than a corrosive build.

[(PSN)xSweep66]

1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

I Think it depends on what level you are talking about and what enemy. If you strip too armor you will lose bonus on flesh and if you have a Nox or a Bombard radiation will make more damage, for stripping you will use Corrosive Projection.

Yeah enemy level is a big deal, or if your riven has plus damage (mine does) to push that level higher. Or if you're running in a dedicated comp and using Mag for ultra high level armor stripping with a Detron and someone else is running a flesh damage weapon, etc. I don't personally use CP much anymore these days myself, I prefer to strip armor with abilities or weapons.

[Eljureo]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

Yeah enemy level is a big deal, or if your riven has plus damage (mine does) to push that level higher. Or if you're running in a dedicated comp and using Mag for ultra high level armor stripping with a Detron and someone else is running a flesh damage weapon, etc. I don't personally use CP much anymore these days myself, I prefer to strip armor with abilities or weapons.

Correct, CP is just a crutch preventing you from building really nice rounded builds.

[(PSN)xSweep66]

Just now, Eljureo said:

Correct, CP is just a crutch preventing you from building really nice rounded builds.

Yeah I tend to agree, I started having a lot more fun with getting cool and interesting builds when I made the switch. To further that, DE keeps releasing more and more mods that make unusual and unique builds far more viable and potent. As a console player I'm extremely excited about getting a build going with the new status spreading Kubrow set. 

[Valkrieger]

My poor lato prime getting nerfed again :(

[True_Naeblis]

On 2018-11-30 at 11:55 AM, voltocitygel said:

Great changes, but they should definitely happen more often.

One thing that weirded me out about these changes: dread disposition went up. My riven's crit chance stat went down. I used to have 211 chance, now I'm just below 200. Not a big change, but I'm still confused. 

Happened on multiple weapons, people asked why when that makes no sense, like everything else on this topic DE is silent so no one knows what's up. Same thing happened on my Grakata riven.

[LegendaryNeurotoxin]

I've thought about it more.... disposition should change monthly, and total weapon use per month should show in the UI with daily updates. This way, the idea of a riven staying at a disposition over time is indicative of it actually being used that frequently every month. This also takes the sting out of once-in-a-long-time disposition changes and how they affect the markets. 

I would also make the case that low disposition rivens might needs their affected items reassessed - maybe a prisma, vandal, wraith, mutalist, prime, or factional variant needs to be added or re-balanced to make the weapon more worthwhile. 

[Jarriaga]

Waiting for a new update. Scott said that someone will make constant updates while on an interview with TacticalPotato. Hopefully disposition is addressed monthly.

[-Temp0-]

В 29.11.2018 в 14:17, bibmobello сказал:

For example normally you should have the 0,06% to obtain multishot, damage and critical chance and this is already hard, add the negative stat and the percentage becomes really low because you want only zoom, recoil or flight speed, ok sometimes damage to faction, 4/15 the percentage becomes 0.006%..

I havent read so much bs in my entire life probably.

I'm not a riven enthusiast but I rolled my fair share and bought some, mostly for lesser popular weapons. Not only it is humanly possible to get useable stats without negatives like damage, multishot and crit, there's shtton of those who did nothing to get them and jsut got lucky within 10 rolls. Most of the rivens for better weaposn I use have combination of 2 of those or 1 + elemental with harmless negative and most of them have under 15 rolls.

[bibmobello]

19 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

I havent read so much bs in my entire life probably.

 I'm not a riven enthusiast but I rolled my fair share and bought some, mostly for lesser popular weapons. Not only it is humanly possible to get useable stats without negatives like damage, multishot and crit, there's shtton of those who did nothing to get them and jsut got lucky within 10 rolls. Most of the rivens for better weaposn I use have combination of 2 of those or 1 + elemental with harmless negative and most of them have under 15 rolls.

Thanks you,  every opinion is important.

[Licandrien]

On 2018-12-07 at 6:14 PM, -Temp0- said:

I havent read so much bs in my entire life probably.

I'm not a riven enthusiast but I rolled my fair share and bought some, mostly for lesser popular weapons. Not only it is humanly possible to get useable stats without negatives like damage, multishot and crit, there's shtton of those who did nothing to get them and jsut got lucky within 10 rolls. Most of the rivens for better weaposn I use have combination of 2 of those or 1 + elemental with harmless negative and most of them have under 15 rolls.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

And really DE, a buzlok nerf? I'm sure that one guy I saw in trids using it is gonna be real upset.

These changes are just to appease the whiners, to "lower" prices. How could a gun, that is only relevant in specific content and was near useless outside of it ( bar flavor ) need a nerf, and that's what you did with a bunch of them, like you did with Chroma, and people are still 1shotting the eidolons. Remind me what that nerf accomplished again? 

Nice that you didn't even address the insanity of the kuva prices, that pretty much forces any riven dealers to get boosters and it's still crap.

Maybe if the kuva costs were actually decent the prices would drop on their own since you don't need to farm that long? just a thought, instead of trying to nerf dispo for the sake of a forum criers to look good.

[Shining_Darkness]

WHY DID YOU REMOVE SENTINEL WEAPON RIVENS?! THEY ARE UTTER GARBAGE WITHOUT THEM.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

for new players i'd be interesting to include some mods with weapon purchases, trials, warframes/equipment obtained, for instance if the player levels up or completes a special task/ranks up with a RARE/Ex style UNTRADABLE reward, even if its cosmetic it can make playing warframe alot more interesting, seeing as there are so many planets with simular missions and many weapons, you can craft a few low level riven mods for mission rewards & i would recommend some other attachement/trinkets/with sentimental value, food, temp boosters, >>> my perspective is that new players & leveling up doesnt have enough captivating loot or encouraging rewards to keep  everyones motivation for re-doing missions, and using the games sub features, captura, pvp, all well hidden lunaro, all might seem too obscure for new players to understand, also what else can be made to work for cetus/fortuna so the city have vendors that offer interesting upgrades for the type of planet/such as unique mods, and new passive traits, etc. maybe you can finally have a way to replace or enhance abilities and warframe abilities, movements or passive traits that aren't completely useful or fit the operators playstyle, anyways, the best fireball spell...x2...yeah.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

On 2018-11-28 at 1:04 PM, Fire2box said:

That would really wreck the plat trading the highest priced mods I've seen are condition overload, adaptation.   If DE wants to go that way I'll certainly understand why. However I think in that sincario they should give us chances to earn rivens rather then pray to sortie RNG god x3 times. 

yeah i think what would be ideal is that they make some newer riven mods that obtained for free and are untradable rivens, but never change all the riven/trading is fun, there shouyld be some unique mods to get and quest rewards, right now why can you buy a gamacor, when you can unlock a second one is more interesting to me than 2gamacoeres lol,....just should be more randomized rewards or stats on guns/repeat blueprints with special features or mods/drops for deleting them and trading rewards/unlockables for those players who trade often like points that can be traded in for more mods, glamour, and ensignias basic to each trade/center and planet, this could mean that players can earn new blueprints and other special rewards, and that doubles/and replicas would have some value, maybe benefit players who dont know how to use mods, and that dont know how to play the game to have some simular system and new npc for the ship/cetus/fortuna, so that there is some harmony in warframe, the other day i saw a streamer play through really difficult fortuna missions with a lato...just struggling real badly, please simplify mods/armor and game rewards with new npcs. ship attendands//robots//and freatures for level/up; rank up doesnt really become enjoyanle until the players get access to other weapons, by then you'd be loosing players and guardians to other games, i feel that you should atleast add some mods and additional rewards for each level up, or at least feature for the current warframe+cosmetics####