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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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I mostly use underused weapons anyway.   Outside of Amprex and Twin Gremlins, almost every riven I have was left alone or got a buff.   And Gremlins got a prisma version a few weeks back, of course its dispo lowered from maximum.

So overall I'm good.  Time to use the Ferrox and Tenora some more! 

I am a little dissapointed in Simulor  though it deserves a buff.  I *had* a riven for that but at .5 it was so useless even a perfect roll couldn't get it up to par with any other mod so it was useless.  At .7 it could maybe do something.  (And simulor is a case where the original overused weapon that got that rating was nerfed heavily, stopped being used, and didn't deserve that rating anymore.) Oh well!

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I'm actually very very mad. I have a Vectis(prime) riven that i rerolled 30+ times to get it where it is today, +crit damage +damage and -magazine capacity. Now I don't want to use the weapon, my favorite weapon, because you guys managed to change my -magazine capacity. Now either i sacrifice my dps for having one shot back for consistancy or i have to deal with 2 shots and an awkward reload since i no longer have 1 shot.  There is now NO FUNCTION TO HAVING -MAG CAPACITY. Also now if i want to go back to this weapon i need to acquire expensive ass rerolls just to even get magazine capacity again and some form of crit damage or something i dont know.

This may seem like a stupid reason to get upset, but you must understand that I had my favorite weapon set up comfortably for me to use because of the riven. Flexibility i didn't have before because i rolled +crit damage +damage and -magazine capacity, and who knows how many rolls i'll need to do again to even come close.

Edited by BomberPenguin
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2 hours ago, Voltage said:

Why remove sentinel weapon Riven Mods? Artax Riven mods are over 20k on PC.

All of these seem like very small increments. Does that mean more changes are to come?

Artax wasn't in riven pool anyway.

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I was very excited to play the Fortuna update, but after loggin into the game and getting the message about riven disposition change and seeing that the only riven I have spend resources is nerfed... I don't even want to play the update ATM. I don't understand why rivens were added in first place if their stats are so volatil ? You need to spend a lot of time, effort and kuva in order to get good rivens, but the stats can suddenly change ? 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Vasto: 1.53->1.4

Image result for ok but why though

some of theses changes make no sense. Vasto Prime (the better version)is a lot weaker than many other pistols yet it got a nerf? not seeing the logic here.

also, kind aglad that I won't have to worry about Shotguns Rivens beign for the Sweeper anymore, but the market is gonna go a bit nuts with the prices now.

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Some of these do seem strange.

Overall the changes seem to normalize Riven stats across the board a bit...so I think that's a good thing.

But...I can't help but feel that Rivens were a mistake where balance is concerned.

Additionally, I want to be a voice of caution against basing Riven stats *purely* on usage statistics. There's many things that go into why people use the weapons they do - much of it has nothing to do with statblocks, but rather with the "feel" and "consistency" of a weapon, and whether there's a Prime/Prisma version of it available.

For example:

The Ignis is a one-of-a-kind weapon that makes crowdclearing and map looting much easier. People don't pick the Ignis because of its statblock.

The Akmagnus, hardly anybody uses currently because it's not Prime/Prisma. If there's going to be a better version in the future, investing forma/potatos on this would become a complete waste. (e.g. Pyrana, Rubico....)

The Soma, people still use this - in spite of the horrid disposition, which got a little bit less horrible with this update - for the consistent accuracy and resultant consistent "feel" of the gun. I bet most folks acknowledge that the statblock (particularly status chance) is inferior to other automatics like the Prisma Grakata, Tenora, or Supra Vandal.

Speaking of the Tenora, it again has the "not Prime/Prisma" aspect. People are uncertain as to whether these 'Warframe-themed' weapons will or will not get superior versions in the future.

This applies to the Astilla as well to a certain extent, but the Astilla has a very good "feel" to it and has decent crowd-control capability, despite not really having the best statblock & also having pretty terrible ammo effiiciency.


Like, I could go on and on about many of the weapons on the list here...I have mastered them all and keep a fair share of them (and have collected Rivens for a fair number of them too), so I am familiar with all of this.

The point here is that "Disposition" needs to take these more 'intangible' aspects into account, and perhaps focus more upon the raw statblocks of the weapon in question than upon its usage statistics. (That or you could, like, do another balance pass or two...do you realize how long it's been since I've wanted to use a Braton...?)

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hmmm astilla nerfed > while kohm which is more broken shotgun atm untouched haha

then again as non meta collector most of my riven are buffed. and braton buff ty de ^^

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DE.. you guys need to stop messing with end game mods. Rivens are so stupidly hard to get and get good rolls as-is, and now you gotta nerf them across the board? Why do you have to wait ages for balance changes like this? Stuff like this is what kills a game.

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Arca just got screwed hardcore! Went from .9 to .7 disposition! Pardon my poor math skills, but isn't that like a negative 22.222 percent change?!?!?!? You know; like practically a quarter or so, give or take? Maybe some folks paid a small fortune for those mods? Maybe some people bought plat with real dollars to buy those mods... Maybe that is a HUGE freaking nerf?... NOT COOL

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It may have been suggested by now, but personally I want Sentinel weapon rivens- the problem is less that they weren't as "good" as other options for me since the best weapon I've unveiled anything for was my very first from The War Within where I received a Supra riven, with the best since being for the Phage and more that I can't get anything decent any way.

Perhaps as an alternative and exception to the usual generation route, people who want a Sentinel riven could equip the Riven to their Sentinel when they are doing the Unveiling challenge and have it generate for that weapon? IE, if you equip a melee Riven to the Deconstructor and complete the challenge, you get a Deconstructor riven.

No doubt this will be followed by calls to have all weapons work this way (which to be honest is how I think it should be already) but just as a single point of compromise to allow players who want their Sentinel to have a Riven this would be a workable solution?

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Hous and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours 

 

IN THE FUKING FARM KUVA FOR THIS TRASH ?????

no guys this is a trash update, i have much rivens for my favs weapons, have much rolls and sacrifice for this. 

i don't want to play anymore. 

 

100000% desmotivation for this S#&$

 

 

 

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oh i always thought that those were already dynamic... well, static rivens kinda suck since they dont actually achieve their intend, especially right BEFORE a patch like fortuna lol. monthly changes whould be very welcome.

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23 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Additionally, I want to be a voice of caution against basing Riven stats *purely* on usage statistics. There's many things that go into why people use the weapons they do - much of it has nothing to do with statblocks, but rather with the "feel" and "consistency" of a weapon, and whether there's a Prime/Prisma version of it available.

I wonder how riven disposition based on weapon master rank requirement will look like. Almost all weapons have a mastery rank requirement which DE has calculated based on the weapon stats in their formula. Higher MR requirement should indicate a stronger weapon if their formula works as intended. Because rivens were designed to buff up weaker weapons, low MR requirement would indicate weak weapons. Low MR required weapons would get high disposition (high stats) and high MR required weapons would get low disposition. In theory, this should mostly level the playing field in terms of power. Of course, there are special weapons like login weapons which need to be treated separately due to their unique acquisition. Basing disposition on MR requirement would also factor in weapon variants (Prime/Prisma/Wraith/Vandal) because they can have different MR requirement than their original counterpart.

DE definitely dropped the ball on the rivens when they used static numbers and didn't update it frequently. People got too used to their powerhouse weapons that they forgot rivens were designed to fluctuate in power. They either need to update more frequently or implement a system that can stay up-to-date on the fly without manual intervention.

Edited by DeathshotSE
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im just thinking.. how am i gonna have space for the rivens of the kitguns and the new weapons... Im already severly lacking in space.. We Need more riven slots.. like even 10 more... 

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Just now, DeathshotSE said:

I wonder how riven disposition based on weapon master rank requirement will look like. Almost all weapons have a mastery rank requirement which DE has calculated based on the weapon stats in their formula. Higher MR requirement should indicate a stronger weapon if their formula works as intended. Because rivens were designed to buff up weaker weapons, low MR requirement would indicate weak weapons. Low MR required weapons would get high disposition (high stats) and high MR required weapons would get low disposition. In theory, this should mostly level the playing field in terms of power. Of course, there are special weapons like login weapons which need to be treated separately due to their unique acquisition. Basing disposition on MR requirement would also factor in weapon variants (Prime/Prisma/Wraith/Vandal) because they can have different MR requirement than their original counterpart.

Good point! It's been so long since I surpassed MR-requirements for weapons that I plumb forgot about that...that's an important factor affecting weapon usage, as well!

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1 hour ago, RezMyDeadbody said:

Frankly, I find about 90% of the comments here baffling.  For the most part, they seem to be of the "I never read the official description of Rivens/Dispositions, so now I'm pissed off that DE is doing exactly what Rivens were designed for" variety.

Are people really unaware that the Disposition system was intended to buff weaker items at a higher rate than weapons that were already strong?    Most of what I'm seeing here is people complaining that their [insert FOTM weapon here] does .02 less damage now.  I highly doubt that means people will stop using their Meta-Blaster 2000.  It only means that you'll be able to find better Rivens for some of the more obscure weapons that were previously MR fodder.



 

You mean like the viper? I only even started using it because i picked up a decent riven for it. Wasnt that the purpose? And now they nerfed it. How does that make sense? I dont think the argument can be made that the viper is a popular weapon....

Some of the changes make sense, and some of them are really bad...  all this does is create cycles of popular weapons until the next riven changes.

What about the panthera? Hardly a popular weapon. Why nerf that too? The point is to make unpopular weapons more popular.... and then turn around and nerf them and make them unpopular again?

I really enjoy both these weapons because they were NOT meta. They both got nerfed and neither of them can be considered anywhere near being classified as a meta-blaster..... and yet the corinth got buffed...

 

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