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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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Good weapons weakened a bit, Trash weapons are still trash, who will be happy about this?

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Virginiafox21 said:

Console isn't updated

But it did update for us. The other Rivens I own that are listed did indeed change. But not the Hek.

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2 minutes ago, Prime_Reckoner said:

Can someone explain me those riven numbers? I thought the disposition was from 1 to 5. Why do I see 1.35 for example?

Disposition is actually from .5 to 1.6. The little dots just give a very rough indicator of where the disposition is.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

But it did update for us. The other Rivens I own that are listed did indeed change. But not the Hek.

Whoops, I'm wrong. Must've been a stealth hotfix.

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Thanks for the Fortuna update!

As for the changes to dispos; All in all not too bad, but can we really have the sweet without the bitter?

 

ANSWER = Not as long as you invest in Warframe or any game that continually updates.

Id rather have changes then no change at all. Steam is a grave yard of games that never update and are abandon by the Devs.

Warframe is not one of those. I appreciate the hard work DE puts into balance. It shows; - though not always perfect they do continually listening and are willing to change.

This is why I have over 3k hours IN the game "not steam" and keep coming back for more.

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i think current disposition way of working isnt satisfying. how about changing it to a 1/2/3 disposition, and make things err higher in the current scale, so for example new 3=old 5,

new 2=old 3.5, new 1=old 2. doesnt feel good to have a riven and simply not wanna use it cus 1 dispo atm

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I almost NEVER see anyone use astilla but frequently see corinth being used..yet you nerf the hardly used shotgun but BUFF the frequently used shotgun? That makes zero sense.

Opticor is probably one of the least used rifles because of its charge time,reload speed,and damage only being useful for a single target or lined up enemies. Outside of seeing people use it for grineer dropships I almost never see it being used. 

Rubico nerf? lanka I understand,just about everyone uses it for eidolons and "end game" content but almost no one used it before rubico prime and even after that came out I hardly ever see it used for more than MR fodder due to lanka being so easy to obtain and its built in element.

A lot of these changes don't make a lot of sense. Got a kick out of the buff to twin grakatas,probably one of the most used secondaries in the game but lol the nerf to euphona prime.

Pretty clear most nerfs are based on damage output and not on actual usage by the community. 
Where else do you see rubico of all things or other snipers being used other than eidolon farming or cetus drop ship killing? They aren't viable weapons outside of big target slayers. There isn't a massive group of people sitting in survival missions in corners with sniper rifles,that never happens. At all. But there are massive amounts of people sitting in corners using bullet hoses like baza and soma(lol you BUFFED soma) because they're viable for almost all game content except the tiny amount of content that snipers are better at which are boss fights and ship slaying.

I really wish it was about making trash gear no one uses more useful so we aren't left to only use the better weapons but instead almost everything useful got nerfed while the trash gear remains trash gear.

Edit: 
I'm not even saying "hey you nerfed what I use". I'm saying that DE stated riven disposition will change based on community usage and that clearly isn't what is happening here. Weapons that are clearly used by more players are either not getting touched or even buffed while the hardly to rarely used is getting nerfed. Miter? panthera? nerfed? you kidding me? I can't even tell you the last time I saw someone using those. 

I CAN however tell you how many times i've seen someone use soma,braton,twin grakatas,corinth,toxocyst,and a lot of the BUFFED weapons and let me tell you,there is a massive landslide of people using those weapons compared to something like miter,astilla,rubico,and opticor.

I'm actually surprised to not see tigris on the list since tigris and corinth and hekk are probably the most used shotguns ever with tigris being the king of shotguns.

 

Edited by wizardeiges
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judging the riven disposition by popularity is dumb as well, look at the braton for example have 3 disposition, but thats literally the weapon that everyone pic at the begin of the game, ofc is going to be popular not by choice but by design, but the sybaris have 2, what? how? this whole thing is a mess.

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10 minutes ago, Fukushu said:

Oh, I understand it took a very long time for these changes to come, but it still falls on the player to understand dispositions change. Again, we've been told from the beginning that these dispositions would fluctuate, and while I'm still against the way DE manages these mods (they really should only be based on the strength of the weapon instead of popularity), I, and what looks like only a few others, was in full understanding that even with how much time and effort it takes to get these mods and however long we get to use them, we shouldn't grow to attached to them since there's always the chance they could go up or down in disposition.

Again, if people grew too comfy with their Rivens, that's on them. If people spent thousands of plat on Rivens that are now weaker, that's on them. None of this is DE's fault; it's all on the player for either growing ignorant to the potential of their Rivens changing or being completely ignorant to the fact they can change at all. Will I be a little upset if my Grinlok Riven ever goes down? A little, but you won't see me ranting about DE screwing everyone over and saying I'm going to uninstall the game over it.

Its not about people getting comfy though, its about what people feel they've put their time into and how they're rewarded for it. Doing this the way they have doesn't make people excited to use new weapons it just makes them angry that the weapon that worked for them yesterday works worse today. While its definitely needed to shake things up taking away player power by the hand of god will always make some people very disappointed and they will quit. A lot of games do not survive player anger over changes like this because they realize that they can never keep the time they've invested into the game. 

Another large problem is that moving all the dispositions by one will probably not help people find new weapons that are exciting to use, the movement is just too small on weapons with real problems. I don't know how many weapons i'd personally like to use that have terrible IPS base stats that make it utterly useless as a weapon. The good weapons are good because at base they were designed well. So perhaps maybe they need to reconsider some of the stats they put on weapons or retool some of the stats that are just not useful enough. Impact being one of the biggest offenders, ruining good weapons.

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now my time wasted getting my ideal rolls is meaningless. this is depressing. I'm definitely no longer wasting my time farming for kuva and rolling rivens. btw i started playing in january of this year so this is the first time experiencing riven dispo changes. i don't agree with it. 

I hope Jim Sterling talks about this topic next time he makes a video on Warframe
UwBauMd.png

Edited by (PS4)doom-monger
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I really don't understand on what metrics you make these changes. 

 

Like really? Astilla nerfed? I have 2 rivens for it and don't even want to use it (because even with carrier it's not enough ammo). Then Azima... the weapon I use that *everyone* says is trash gets nerfed? WHY? Then you buff stupid stuff that doesn't need it... why even bother.

 

Stuff that needed a buff needed FAR more than "no more than 1 pip" and stuff that needed market upset (Sicarus, Tiberon, etc) needed floored to where Soma and everything else is. So those of us who constantly get screwed with unveils could have had a chance to make some plat. But then again... it's only the people who buy plat that get the awful unveils right? Just like we're also the ones who don't get more than 20% off..............

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DE has been amenable to reverting changes in the past. I hope they do the same this time. It’s certainly lowered some people’s enthusiasm for getting on and grinding the new updates.

I was ready to plunk down some more money on floofs and such once Fortuna hit PS4, but I’m just pretty bummed. Especially bummed about the sentinels... Not going to rage or uninstall the game or anything like some people have stated, but I’ll remember this negative experience next time I consider putting more money into this game, that’s for sure.

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Just now, Williamwaitunnaing said:

wait so will the existing stats change or it just affects the rolling system?

yes existing stats are affected 100%. 😞 i confirmed by looking at my rivens stats and they changed . they dropped but some got better like my corinth riven :)

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3 minutes ago, xenoXelfer said:

WTF? all the kuva i farmed to roll rivens that i enjoyed, this is so petty to nerf so so petty

Right?

A lot of people are claiming the majority of this anger comes from real world money invested. Even though I feel those people have a valid reason to be upset, time investment and the emotional trigger from getting a great roll was also impacted in a negative way.

My favorite Riven was purchased for under market price with a mediocre roll on it. I was perfectly happy with it the way it was. However, I invested countless hours putting 73 more rolls on that Riven. I was overjoyed when I got the roll I was after months later. And now? My Riven is still great, but that joy from investing approximately 20 hours of straight Kuva farming for a single gun to be a little bit stronger just to have it taken away doesn't feel good. I'm not angry, but there's no other rational way to feel about it. 

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This is a trash move DE. Nerfed all the useful rivens ( Which by the way no one asked for in the first place). I played with Panthera which didn't need the nerf, go ahead and nerf the melee and while you are in nerf year 2018 you can also nerf the movement speed. Let us play in slowmotion. I bet those "2 mil registered loosers" would love that.

At least give me the Kuva back.

Edited by DeanYuri
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36 minutes ago, -NightmareMoon- said:

NO melee why!?

The venka have 1 riven disposition, HOW?  no one use the damn thing, no body! COME ON!

Melee riven update will come with melee 3.0, which is now officially Soon™.

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Why the did the panthera get a nerf? I really like using that gun but it is 100% bad. I just lost a lot of consistency in my multishot and some reload speed (and damage but oh well). I dont see why this gun had to take a hit. I was proud of the riven i unlocked and rolled myself but its definitely going to feel less quality off of that small nerf.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)nekokujo said:

DE has been amenable to reverting changes in the past. I hope they do the same this time. It’s certainly lowered some people’s enthusiasm for getting on and grinding the new updates.

I was ready to plunk down some more money on floofs and such once Fortuna hit PS4, but I’m just pretty bummed. Especially bummed about the sentinels... Not going to rage or uninstall the game or anything like some people have stated, but I’ll remember this negative experience next time I consider putting more money into this game, that’s for sure.

i feel the same way

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5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

On another relevant note separate from these Disposition changes, we have removed Sentinel weapons from the Riven generation pool. Those that own Sentinel weapon Rivens will still own them in their Inventories. Unveiling a Sentinel weapon Riven was simply lackluster compared to more applicable weapons.

do you remember about what i said from Taxon riven weapon?

seriously, what are you thinking? even it doesn't boost weapon's damage, an riven mod still can be used to squeeze some utility attribute, like zoom (increases detection range), reload (less time stopped), and so on...

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Please add Sentinel Rivens as a Vitus Essence purchasable item.

I don't expect them to be too cheap, plus this adds replay value to a mode where people want more reason to engage in it.

 

Keep in mind:

Sentinel Rivens were going to go up in price purely from Moa pets alone and new Sentinel weapons being added.

Now that you axed them... they will be worth even more.

Also, why did you add Sentinel rivens if other pets weren't going to get Rivens?

(Also, please make sentinels not squishy AF or remove their threat so they get hit less.)

 

As for the Riven changes in general, thank you, a good step in right direction. Some don't make any freaking sense...but change is needed.

I was upset how they were failing to do what was NEEDED... to make low MR and bad weapons worth using even in End Game, not pushing already great weapons into GOD TIER.

I was going to make a post suggesting you tie Riven polarity to said weapons Mastery Rank  for their rank as 1 to 5 and then hand balance edge cases... ideally giving all weapons a similar time to kill or usefulness.

 

I am still under a NDA for another game, featuring heroes, that is now dead...

...but I did a LOT of balance testing and bug testing there when they were trying to get heroes to a similar enough time to kill and survival capability that people could play how they want, not be meta slaves, but still maintaining the flavor and uniqueness of that character.

But, however you want to do it, just do something to bring a healthy balance to weapons... there are a lot of fun weapons that don't get the use they deserve.

 

Also, please buff Javlok...its still basically trash... and I really want to use that weapon.

Reminds me of a hero I got kind of actually got PTSD testing (seriously, still haunts me because of how much testing I did and how trash they were) in that other game, one of my favorite characters, but even in a end game optimal gear setup they were still weaker than an entirely gearless/naked other character...

We did a race between myself and another tester to reasonably clear a zone and its boss... it was apparently the thing the devs there needed to see to highlight just how bad that character was even after their first buff passes, and then they got a much needed rework.

 

Ultimately, we need a Damage 3.0 and enemy scaling changes so that trash weapons won't need as dramatic of changes.

You need to shift things around, here are some preliminary ideas for just IPS damage:

 

If you make Impact and Puncture equivalents to Slash, each with a Rock Paper Scissors alignment to enemy factions;

Slash ideal for Infested and stays same since Infested are Health based.

Strong against Impact. Neutral to Puncture.

Impact for Grineer to do a Sunder Armor proc, because they are Armor based.

Strong against Puncture. Neutral against Slash.

(or an internal bleeding proc.. impact damage was one of the best tools to fight armored knights besides very strong puncture weapons, its a bit tricky because modern and future armor would be traditionally designed to stop bullets, not so much for impacts/pressure waves, but armor piercing bullets is a thing and could be represented as "Puncture" damage also)

Puncture for Corpus to do a Shield Drain proc on Shields... or chance to bypass shield or something.

Strong against Slash. Neutral against Impact.

(Shields are a bit tricky also... so could go either way like Grineer. Robots would be vulnerable to impact shock damage, but also due to weight be limited on armor and so puncture damage would have more effect on internals... its easier to make a robot impact resistant than bullet resistant, if you go by military grade laptops and other electronics we have today that are impact and drop resistant.)

 

I'll be writing up a Damage 3.0 topic eventually and layout how I would do it.

Edited by Alienami
Added IPS tangent and forgot Str Wkn for types.
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5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Releasing these changes without warning is our way of discouraging market exploitation, which may have occurred if some players knew change was coming, while players who didn’t visit the Forums would be unaware.

Didn't work, I'm sure some of the more savvy players smelled the change coming from a mile away. xD

 

Pretty good changes overall, except for maybe Euphona (some builds need 100% status just like Kohm and Detron!). I am positively surprised.

I'm glad to see you haven't completely nerfed some of them into the ground, I was fully expecting a 1/5 disposition on guns like Tiberon, Sicarus or Arca Plasmor. That would have been very sad.

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