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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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4 minutes ago, Wesgile said:

Quoting this to remind people who whined that their overpowered and overused toys getting "nerfed".

 

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Viper: 1.53->1.45

lol

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I'm quite baffled by the criteria adopted in choosing what weapons got their riven degraded or buffed... considering also that the buffs are so small as to be still useless (disposition under 2 pips should simply not exist, the resulting stats are too low for a tangible benefit)

I'm even more perplexed by the lack of foresight of doing a move like this right at the launch of an important update after a long content drought. I doubt customers would apreciate this kind of carrot and stick mentality: here's the new thing, but we are "breaking" your old toys in exchange.

DE what was the point of trying to sabotage intentionally the launch of one of your best expansions with a move that most of the community would disapprove of?

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb ReshyShira:

The more rivens change, the less valuable rivens become.  I don't get why you're excited to see the fellow members in your community upset that their investment into the game isn't being respected.

Because these changes work towards Rivens originally intended goal, which i support.

Also because your entitlement is 100% unwarranted: EULAs... read em.

Besides DE made it clear from the very beginning that these would be subject to change and also that they'd never balance any content around them.

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13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

With the excitement surrounding Fortuna, it’s been awhile since we’ve talked about Riven mods - Cephalon Samodeus’ creations can turn the game’s balance on its head, transforming almost any weapon into a uniquely vicious powerhouse.

Since not all weapons are created equal, “Riven Disposition” was introduced as a sort of counterbalance, ensuring that weaker weapons get stronger Rivens and vice versa. Some effort has gone into maintaining Dispositions as new weapons and Primes are introduced, but because of Warframe’s ever-evolving status as a living game, some Dispositions are not an accurate reflection of their weapon’s popularity and power.

As you explore the Orb Vallis, you may notice your Rivened weapons performing differently than usual - this is because we have tweaked Dispositions across the board, to better uphold the delicate balance of power that Rivens represent. Releasing these changes without warning is our way of discouraging market exploitation, which may have occurred if some players knew change was coming, while players who didn’t visit the Forums would be unaware. We understand Riven Disposition is a touchy subject, since many players have accumulated vast and valuable Riven collections. To help keep market fluctuation under control, we followed a few simple rules:

  • No Disposition has changed by more than one “pip” in the Arsenal. (For those knowledgeable about how Rivens work in code, no Disposition will change by more than +/-0.2)
  • Dispositions are based roughly on the weapon’s usage among mid-to-endgame Warframe players, with handmade tweaks where appropriate.
  • If usage stats show that a number should be changed only slightly, we didn’t change it at all - about 40% of all gun Dispositions have gone untouched.
  • As of posting this Workshop, all players who own Rivens have received an in-game message warning them of changes. Buyers beware!
  • Changes will be rolled out to all platforms as quickly as possible, to further prevent market exploitation.
  • Melee Rivens have NOT been changed yet; those tweaks will come along with weapon rebalancing in Melee 3.0.

Based on these parameters, here is the complete list of changes we have made:

  Reveal hidden contents

PRIMARIES:
Amprex: 0.96->0.85
Argonak: 1.0->1.1
Braton: 0.96->1.01
Burston: 1.18->1.25
Buzlok: 1.55->1.45
Cernos: 0.86->0.92
Dread: 0.82->0.9
Ferrox: 1.0->1.1
Grakata: 1.1->1.15
Hema: 1.0-> 1.1
Ignis: 0.79->0.7
Javlok: 1.0->1.1
Lanka: 1.1->0.95
Latron: 1.07->1.15
Miter: 1.6->1.55
Mutalist Cernos: 1.21->1.26
Opticor: 1.21->1.15
Panthera: 1.55->1.5
Paris: 0.96->1.05
Penta: 1.18->1.25
Quanta: 0.9->1.0
Quartakk: 1.2->1.25
Rubico: 1.1->0.95
Scourge: 1.0->1.1
Simulor: 0.5->0.7
Soma: 0.5->0.55
Stradavar: 1.18->1.25
Supra: 1.14->1.0
Tenora: 1.0->1.05
Tiberon: 1.5->1.3
Tonkor: 0.55->0.75
Torid: 1.14->1.2
Vectis: 1.0->0.92
Veldt: 1.0->1.1
Zarr: 1.0->1.08
Zenith: 1.0->1.1
Zhuge: 1.1->1.18

SHOTGUNS:
Arca Plasmor: 0.9->0.7
Astilla: 1.2->1.1
Corinth: 1.0->1.05
Hek: 0.55->0.7
Strun: 1.42->1.35

SECONDARIES:
Akbolto: 0.85-> 0.8
Aklex: 1.0->0.92
Aksomati: 1.26->1.2
Akvasto: 1.24->1.3
Atomos: 0.87->0.8
Azima: 1.35->1.25
Ballistica: 0.85->0.95
Brakk: 0.75->0.95
Bronco: 1.2->1.3
Castanas: 1.42->1.35
Cycron: 1.0->1.1
Despair: 1.24->1.3
Dual Cestra: 1.35->1.3
Dual Toxocyst: 1.19->1.25
Euphona Prime: 0.75->0.7
Fusilai: 1.2->1.3
Gammacor: 0.53->0.65
Hikou: 0.69->0.75
Hystrix: 1.0->1.05
Knell: 1.0->1.15
Kohmak: 1.2->1.3
Kulstar: 1.1->1.2
Lato: 1.51->1.4
Marelok: 0.5->0.65
Pandero: 1.0->0.95
Pox: 0.82->0.95
Pyrana: 1.2->1.0
Sicarus: 1.5->1.3
Sonicor: 0.5->0.65
Spira: 0.66->0.85
Twin Grakatas: 0.76->0.85
Twin Gremlins: 1.5->1.4
Twin Kohmak: 1.1->1.2
Twin Rogga: 1.0->1.15
Vasto: 1.53->1.4
Viper: 1.53->1.45
Zakti: 1.0->1.1


On another relevant note separate from these Disposition changes, we have removed Sentinel weapons from the Riven generation pool. Those that own Sentinel weapon Rivens will still own them in their Inventories. Unveiling a Sentinel weapon Riven was simply lackluster compared to more applicable weapons.

We hope that these changes help bring us closer to the original intention of Riven Mods, reinvigorating weapon diversity at a high level. We will continue listening to player thoughts regarding Dispositions, in hopes of better maintaining this system in the future. Thanks for reading Tenno, and see you on Venus!


EDIT: Wanted to clear up one comment I'm seeing lots of. Many of you have mentioned the Kohm as well as Detron - These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is. 

That's not cool!!! People are sick of those nerfs! your mentality and your system is bad, why would people use a weak weapon when they have better options? this is what you guys want, you want the players to play the way you want!!! That's not how it works. your disposition system is trash. and if you keep making those nerfs people will quit the game. I have already quit. 

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Just now, Ikusias said:

I'm quite baffled by the criteria adopted in choosing what weapons got their riven degraded or buffed... considering also that the buffs are so small as to be still useless (disposition under 2 pips should simply not exist, the resulting stats are too low for a tangible benefit)

I'm even more perplexed by the lack of foresight of doing a move like this right at the launch of an important update after a long content drought. I doubt customers would apreciate this kind of carrot and stick mentality: here's the new thing, but we are "breaking" your old toys in exchange.

DE what was the point of trying to sabotage intentionally the launch of one of your best expansions with a move that most of the community would disapprove of?

Honestly, if they kept already dropped rivens the same I doubt any of this would have been an issue.  It'd have been so easy too.  Just make dropped rivens track their disposition as of the time of dropping.

 

1 minute ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Because these changes work towards Rivens originally intended goal, which i support.

Also because your entitlement is 100% unwarranted: EULAs... read em.

Besides DE made it clear from the very beginning that these would be subject to change and also that they'd never balance any content around them.

Except the changes don't do anything positive for the game.  They only punish players who bought the meta rivens that are now considerably less valuable, whilst the rivens that were buffed weren't buffed enough to matter.

 

Also, I don't care about the EULA, I care that my time and investment as a player are respected by the developers.

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2 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Because these changes work towards Rivens originally intended goal, which i support.

Also because your entitlement is 100% unwarranted: EULAs... read em.

Besides DE made it clear from the very beginning that these would be subject to change and also that they'd never balance any content around them.

It kinda looks like they balanced Rivens around content though, which is essentially the same thing. Every Eidolon weapon got hit.

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vor 41 Minuten schrieb ReshyShira:

At least if it worked that way it would respect the players time and investment in their rivens.

it still does and every player knows dispositions are dynamic. also DE respects it. no dispo has changed by more than 0.2, on average its more like 0.07 considering many only changed by 0.05 only and many which got buffed received +0.05 too or +0.15 which is not a bad thing since buff. nerfs were really minor, nothing u wouldnt instantly notice if it wasnt mentioned. DE is careful with these changes, both nerfs and buffs, so they do respect it but still monitor it, which is the whole purpose.

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Did you guys at least double the riven mod slots or at least increase it by 50% something .. i lost at least 1k plat because i was forced to kill good rivens cause of no slot cap... do a cap increase , we got new weapons as well ... it's justified .. please.

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19 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I think euphona nerf was uncalled for. It's a pretty unweildly weapon.

Most other nerfs or buffs to weapons that I frequent make sense, though. Latron has been on the weak side for a while and it's dispo could use a bump, nerfing Sicarus makes perfect sense, Lato and Vasto seeing a drop isn't unreasonable...

It looks like this doesn't affect current rolls, though, and I already have a perfect Euphona riven that I will never ever touch because it's a perfect combination of +impact +damage +recoil roll.

It does affect your current rolls. Your stats match the new dispo, not the old one. 

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Just now, Xydeth said:

it still does and every player knows dispositions are dynamic. also DE respects it. no dispo has changed by more than 0.2, on average its more like 0.07 considering many only changed by 0.05 only and many which got buffed received +0.05 too or +0.15 which is not a bad thing since buff. nerfs were really minor, nothing u wouldnt instantly notice if it wasnt mentioned. DE is careful with these changes, both nerfs and buffs, so they do respect it but still monitor it, which is the whole purpose.

No, if DE respected the time investment players put into it, they'd have left existing rivens unchanged and modified all future rivens. 

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Gerade eben schrieb ReshyShira:

Except the changes don't do anything positive for the game.  They only punish players who bought the meta rivens that are now considerably less valuable, whilst the rivens that were buffed weren't buffed enough to matter.

Yes they do. They close the gaps between weapon effectiveness, potentially boosting setup variety. Which was the whole idea behind Rivens in the first place.

vor 1 Minute schrieb ReshyShira:

Also, I don't care about the EULA, I care that my time and investment as a player are respected by the developers.

Well that's entirely your own problem then. DE owe you nothing. And you could have known if you would have cared.

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12 hours ago, (XB1)CynNex said:

It's about balancing things, not just about what is most used but also what is most powerful BEFORE a riven is applied.  As for sentinel rivens it's about time, they were utterly useless. Base stats were so low that rivens didnt make much difference anyways  and remember that dispositions only affect the ranges you can roll and the impact of these changes isn't that massive. People saying lanka is more used, but forget that Rubico prime is far more powerful than std Rubico so op riven would mess with balance hence the bigger change.

why the need for "balance" this is not a PvP game. nobody is bothered that my rubico is powerfull, how does that affects you?

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PS4)xSweep66:

It kinda looks like they balanced Rivens around content though, which is essentially the same thing. Every Eidolon weapon got hit.

Is Eidolon hunting virtually impossible without Rivens? Nope. qed.

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12 hours ago, ADirtyMonk said:

Super tiny changes. Nothing to get bent over about. 

Really? i just lost thousands of plat!! kind of sick of those nerfs. This game has even more nerf than PvP and they don't have a real reason for it. because of those tiny changes i'm quitting the game. 

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Just now, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Yes they do. They close the gaps between weapon effectiveness, potentially boosting setup variety. Which was the whole idea behind Rivens in the first place.

Well that's entirely your own problem then. DE owe you nothing. And you could have known if you would have cared.

Except weapons that are only viable with a riven get nerfs as readily as weapons that are good without rivens.

 

DE owes me a product that I wish to play, else I'll go somewhere where my time and investment is better respected.  Unpopular decisions like these can drive players to quit, lower platinum purchases, etc.  Not good things if you want a game to turn a profit.  You gotta respect your customers.

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4 minutes ago, Creamster said:

Did you guys at least double the riven mod slots or at least increase it by 50% something .. i lost at least 1k plat because i was forced to kill good rivens cause of no slot cap... do a cap increase , we got new weapons as well ... it's justified .. please.

Ikr i spend most my plat on riven slots

Started with only 15

But it fills so fast

Iam at 51/60

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13 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

I don't see why celebrating the loss of investment of your fellow players is a good thing, you want your player base to feel that their time sank into the game is meaningful.  Changes to rivens would be fine.... if Rivens actually had fixed stats once they're dropped and cannot be retroactively changed

Well, unfortunately you ought to respect the player's investment within the game.  As is, Rivens take a massive investment to make good, and this investment isn't being respected by the developers.  Furthermore, weapons that are only good with a riven have seen nerfs whilst weapons who nobody uses even with a riven haven't seen any tweaking.

This change is only positive to the game market. This "investment" of yours is player driven, players decided to pay crazy amounts for rivens and it's only them to blame. Riven mods were always meant to change in stats, it's time for people to wake up to that.

Yes, DE did this way too late and they let the prices bloat, but that's why I hope they'll do these changes more regularly now.

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And this is why I never spent hundreds of plat on rivens. Glad to see this is being done, need to happens a lot more often though. And do you really need to nerf every sniper at the same time? Not that I think it'll change much, just feels bad.

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1 minute ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Is Eidolon hunting virtually impossible without Rivens? Nope. qed.

I wasn't saying anything like that. But there is literally no other content in which those weapons appear regularly. They were nerfed because of their use in a single piece of content. 

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Just now, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

Ikr i spend most my plat on riven slots

Started with only 15

But it fills so fast

Iam at 51/60

Yep, this is basically what players do at end-game.... and DE is not respecting their player base's investments.

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Just now, CeePee said:

This change is only positive to the game market. This "investment" of yours is player driven, players decided to pay crazy amounts for rivens and it's only them to blame. Riven mods were always meant to change in stats, it's time for people to wake up to that.

Yes, DE did this way too late and they let the prices bloat, but that's why I hope they'll do these changes more regularly now.

Once a Riven is in the game it should remain unchanged, players shouldn't be market speculating on what the next nerf waves will be for rivens.

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I took months to get 2 perfect rivens, Lanka and rubico both crita-satitis, Ms + cc + cd-zoom, yesterday I see the modified statuses, this take me attitude of stop playing, I want to understand what goes on in the head of a company in spoils fun of many people.

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