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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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Just now, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

No objections.

They are and always have been acting rather schizo about anything balance related. If that's part of a strategy or laxness: I let you be the judge.

I think that's exactly why we see this amount of passion here.

It's one thing to neglect, over tune, or poorly balance a frame. But Rivens are thoroughly known to be $$$ for some people. Something that DE is obviously aware of. This whole thing is perplexing.

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Everyone should chill a bit and relax.

 

This game is in good hands and it's progressing into a good direction where there is no meta, only alternative choices. Future reworks such as Melee 3.0 and Damage 3.0, which might completely overhaul the weapon stats will be the jewel to crown all of the changes ahead of us.

 

Besides that, to address the ever-changing nature of riven stats: world's most successful MMORPG World of Warcraft discards player equipment every new expansion, making the questing gear better than previous expansion's end-game raid gear.

DE is doing gear different for sure, but it's their job to balance the game within their intention, as they have the experience and the skills needed to achieve that, after all they made this very game over five years ago.

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12 hours ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Gotta love people who are like “no one uses my weapon, why was its disposition nerfed?!” Like you seriously believe you have more accurate usage statistics then DE? 

This was a long time coming, and while some of my rivens got hit, the stat decrease is so negligible that I don’t even mind. Good on DE for finally turning on the cold showers, about time people woke up,

Those weapons didnt get nerfed because people were using them. those weapons got nerfed because some people complained about them. Nobody was using lanka outside of PoE,nobody because it's not hard to use it. 

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1 minute ago, Operativ said:

Everyone should chill a bit and relax.

 

This game is in good hands and it's progressing into a good direction where there is no meta, only alternative choices. Future reworks such as Melee 3.0 and Damage 3.0, which might completely overhaul the weapon stats will be the jewel to crown all of the changes ahead of us.

 

Besides that, to address the ever-changing nature of riven stats: world's most successful MMORPG World of Warcraft discards player equipment every new expansion, making the questing gear better than previous expansion's end-game raid gear.

DE is doing gear different for sure, but it's their job to balance the game within their intention, as they have the experience and the skills needed to achieve that, after all they made this very game over five years ago.

I would argue that the players made this game just as much. After all, DE is known for generously considering player feedback. What you're seeing here is that very feedback.

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7 minutes ago, Operativ said:

Everyone should chill a bit and relax.

 

This game is in good hands and it's progressing into a good direction where there is no meta, only alternative choices. Future reworks such as Melee 3.0 and Damage 3.0, which might completely overhaul the weapon stats will be the jewel to crown all of the changes ahead of us.

 

Besides that, to address the ever-changing nature of riven stats: world's most successful MMORPG World of Warcraft discards player equipment every new expansion, making the questing gear better than previous expansion's end-game raid gear.

DE is doing gear different for sure, but it's their job to balance the game within their intention, as they have the experience and the skills needed to achieve that, after all they made this very game over five years ago.

As far as I know, they aren't literally making the items disappear from your inventory, just presenting better equipment that you'll take to upgrade your prior equipment.  This is in no way comparable.

 

16 minutes ago, Alienami said:

The salt in this thread is Dead Sea grade...

The fallacies are biblical...

 

THIS WAS AN ECONOMIC BUBBLE and Gambler's Fallacy run wild in the community! Then the regulators start waking up and doing stuff about it...SHOCKER!

(Dot Com bubble, Housing Bubble... any of those ringing any bells?)

And people got fleeced by the fallacy that nothing bad happens because nothing bad happened prior to now or just in this specific area of the economy...or to them personally...therefore nothing bad will continue to happen...and then it does happen...and they lose their minds and shift the blame!

 

Gambling machine and bubble in riven prices was OBVIOUS.

 

People put time and money into it anyway and then got mad...as if they never heard of gambling and economic bubbles...

...and that it wasn't public knowledge Riven Dispositions are allegedly based on weapon popularity and usage...

...and that DE likes to nerf things too hard sometimes or not at all for a long time then hit that thing with a sudden nerf...

 

Take the lessons learned here and move on... the world is NOT known for stability and well done governance that doesn't symptom chase and over react instead of actually treating root causes of issues with well thought out plans...

 

Problem is that DE can arbitrarily choose who wins and loses when it comes to rivens (specifically the detron and kohm win, everyone else loses).  It's not even consistent, and it only serves to frustrate the player base and potentially drive players away.

Edited by ReshyShira
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vor 1 Minute schrieb (PS4)xSweep66:

What you're seeing here is that very feedback. 

And what you're not seeing is thousands of players just moving on playing the game, probably hardly noticing the changes,

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Truli:

those weapons got nerfed because some people complained about them.

BS. DE have all the means to see statistics about usage of gear in certain missions. If they decide there's a distinct disbalance to be fixed they'll do so, otherwise they won't.

Believe me, i complain all the time about all kinds of stuff in vain. 🙂

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Just now, (PS4)xSweep66 said:

I would argue that the players made this game just as much. After all, DE is known for generously considering player feedback. What you're seeing here is that very feedback.

Whining about bad perceptions and choices they made... is not feedback... its wanting to have their cake and eat it too, like children.

Bubbles always pop...

Eventually, no matter how long the coin flip came up Heads... Tails is around the corner...

 

And yet people don't like that...so they see it as impossible...and refuse to accept it and their part in it.

 

You're not a victim of you didn't pay attention and make informed choices...

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2 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

And what you're not seeing is thousands of players just moving on playing the game, probably hardly noticing the changes,

BS. DE have all the means to see statistics about usage of gear in certain missions. If they decide there's a distinct disbalance to be fixed they'll do so, otherwise they won't.

Believe me, i complain all the time about all kinds of stuff in vain. 🙂

We can't have it both ways though. We can't both say "people are crying because the most overused weapons got nerfed" and "most people won't even notice these nerfs". You see a lot of meta weapons here getting taken down a peg, people will absolutely know about this. It's been thoroughly debated why this topic is such a hot button issue.

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1 minute ago, Alienami said:

Whining about bad perceptions and choices they made... is not feedback... its wanting to have their cake and eat it too, like children.

Bubbles always pop...

Eventually, no matter how long the coin flip came up Heads... Tails is around the corner...

 

And yet people don't like that...so they see it as impossible...and refuse to accept it and their part in it.

 

You're not a victim of you didn't pay attention and make informed choices...

It's not a bubble being acted upon by outside forces or chaotic conditions. 

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5 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

And what you're not seeing is thousands of players just moving on playing the game, probably hardly noticing the changes,

BS. DE have all the means to see statistics about usage of gear in certain missions. If they decide there's a distinct disbalance to be fixed they'll do so, otherwise they won't.

Believe me, i complain all the time about all kinds of stuff in vain. 🙂

That's because Fortuna was packaged in with this riven change, so it's going to interfere with knowing how much the riven changes impacted the player base and platinum purchases.

 

1 minute ago, Alienami said:

Whining about bad perceptions and choices they made... is not feedback... its wanting to have their cake and eat it too, like children.

Bubbles always pop...

Eventually, no matter how long the coin flip came up Heads... Tails is around the corner...

 

And yet people don't like that...so they see it as impossible...and refuse to accept it and their part in it.

 

You're not a victim of you didn't pay attention and make informed choices...

Seriously, why should rivens be as speculative as the #*!%ing stock market?  How's that a good idea?  DE's already mentioned how they don't like virtual gambling systems, and yet Rivens basically do this whenever a riven dispo change comes around.  Forcing everyone to take a loss because the developers on a whim decided your weapon's rivens needs a nerf isn't good for the market, and especially when they turn around and say that some weapon rivens get to avoid being nerfed because they said so

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PS4)xSweep66:

We can't have it both ways though. We can't both say "people are crying because the most overused weapons got nerfed" and "most people won't even notice these nerfs". You see a lot of meta weapons here getting taken down a peg, people will absolutely know about this. It's been thoroughly debated why this topic is such a hot button issue.

Sure. Just saying compared to overall playerbase this thread is but a tiny fraction. My point is merely: Taking this thread as evidence the changes were universally received negatively isn't viable. We cannot know.

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This post could do away with the Edit. The Edit section really grinds me. Same argument can be made with all other weapons if it meant sparing them from the change.

What am I not getting here? Cus if is how I see it then this is just a backpedaling mess. 

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb ReshyShira:

That's because Fortuna was packaged in with this riven change, so it's going to interfere with knowing how much the riven changes impacted the player base and platinum purchases.

Can't argue with that. The diversion being a strategic move seems most plausible.

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I don't understand, some of the guns you guys nerfed are REALLY bad. Why did you make this decision based on usage alone? Some of the guns are only used as much as they are for fun factor or because they're literally starter weapons like the Lato, so why make them even less viable?

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4 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

As far as I know, they aren't literally making the items disappear from your inventory, just presenting better equipment that you'll take to upgrade your prior equipment.  This is in no way comparable.

 

Problem is that DE can arbitrarily choose who wins and loses when it comes to rivens (specifically the detron and kohm win, everyone else loses).  It's not even consistent, and it only serves to frustrate the player base and potentially drive players away.

As an active player of the game myself I can tell you that all the investments from Legion expansion were made useless after Battle for Azeroth was released. Practically all the player power had to be reattained, and the meta completely resetted.

 

In my opinion the rivens should just be discarded as a way to improve the older weapons, and the weapons could use a complete overhaul of the statistics. There's just too much expectation on the developers from a gambling system that can be monetised in-game or that acts as a powerhouse of the gameplay.

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Just now, ReshyShira said:

That's because Fortuna was packaged in with this riven change, so it's going to interfere with knowing how much the riven changes impacted the player base and platinum purchases.

 

Seriously, why should rivens be as speculative as the #*!%ing stock market?  How's that a good idea?  DE's already mentioned how they don't like virtual gambling systems, and yet Rivens basically do this whenever a riven dispo change comes around.  Forcing everyone to take a loss because the developers on a whim decided your weapon's rivens needs a nerf isn't good for the market, and especially when they turn around and say that some weapon rivens get to avoid being nerfed because they said so

That's inaccurate, to put it politely. A lot of weapons got their disposition upped and people use those weapons, a fact indicated by most of them not going up the max amount. So drop that "everyone lost" thing. I won on Spira and Pox just to name two, there must be some I missed, and my friend uses Pox too.

Yes it's because they said so but that was common knowledge they were gonna revisit the dispositions sooner or later. They said it again before doing it. And the changes were mild. Seriously, if people have problems because of these changes the problem is in their heads and egos, meta they use being slightly less meta. Spira will continue to rise in disposition and Arca Plasmor fall for the same reason: one is easy to up the kill count with and the other is not. And that won't stop people from using whatever weapons they want and having fun with them. You would hardly notice it in killing potential if your favourite weapon's disposition dropped from 5/5 to 1/5 because good weapons are good and they have 8 mod slots, riven being just one mod. And there's the thing called diminishing returns which applies to most rivens anyway.

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1 minute ago, GOOFBALL1 said:

That's inaccurate, to put it politely. A lot of weapons got their disposition upped and people use those weapons, a fact indicated by most of them not going up the max amount. So drop that "everyone lost" thing. I won on Spira and Pox just to name two, there must be some I missed, and my friend uses Pox too.

Yes it's because they said so but that was common knowledge they were gonna revisit the dispositions sooner or later. They said it again before doing it. And the changes were mild. Seriously, if people have problems because of these changes the problem is in their heads and egos, meta they use being slightly less meta. Spira will continue to rise in disposition and Arca Plasmor fall for the same reason: one is easy to up the kill count with and the other is not. And that won't stop people from using whatever weapons they want and having fun with them. You would hardly notice it in killing potential if your favourite weapon's disposition dropped from 5/5 to 1/5 because good weapons are good and they have 8 mod slots, riven being just one mod. And there's the thing called diminishing returns which applies to most rivens anyway.

Rivens impact viability in longer runs or late game content. Some Rivens can double or better a weapons output. Diminishing returns are real, but that 1/8 mod can be extraordinary in comparison to all of the others if the effort is put into it and the disposition is there. 

It has been been demonstrated countless ways in this thread already as to the multitude of reasons people are upset. There is no simple catch all like so many people are trying to force as to why people are upset.

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@[DE]Connor

Please take another look at the Hek riven disposition. I don't think the change made it into the game code even though it is on the list.

I have a riven that was 1% shy of making 100% status chance (without MS) before the update, and is still the same at 1% shy of making 100% status chance.

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1 minute ago, Mindbulletz said:

@[DE]Connor

Please take another look at the Hek riven disposition. I don't think the change made it into the game code even though it is on the list.

I have a riven that was 1% shy of making 100% status chance (without MS) before the update, and is still the same at 1% shy of making 100% status chance.

Mine went from 88.2 MS to 80.1 ms. SO the change did make it into the game, but my riven got nerfed.

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1 minute ago, Phthisis said:

Mine went from 88.2 MS to 80.1 ms. SO the change did make it into the game, but my riven got nerfed.

Mine stayed the same at 59% status chance. And it was supposed to go up not down. Smells like bugs.

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Just now, Mindbulletz said:

Mine stayed the same at 59% status chance. And it was supposed to go up not down. Smells like bugs.

my torid rivens also got nerfed or had no changes.

Maybe bugs, maybe other things like the spaghetti code is finally catching up to them

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6 minutes ago, Mindbulletz said:

@[DE]Connor

Please take another look at the Hek riven disposition. I don't think the change made it into the game code even though it is on the list. 

I have a riven that was 1% shy of making 100% status chance (without MS) before the update, and is still the same at 1% shy of making 100% status chance. 

I agree, my Hek riven looks the same, az it was.

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