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Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

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7 часов назад, Truli сказал:

so basically fu%^^^ the time and effort someone put into kuva farming or riven challanges, why give us rivens in the first place if they are gonna change it entirely? nah, this means this game doesn't appreciate the effort you put into it, so there is not use to play it anymore since the "fun" will be replaced with frustration. if this was their intentions, kudos!! 

Rivens were made to support weak weapons, not to create overpowered monsters. Unfortunately, exactly that happened after the massive rebalance of primary and secondary weapons which caused a lot of them to be fairly strong, while rivens were still balanced after their outdated underpowered state.

Then same thing applies to releases of improved versions of weapons such as Rubico Prime which received rivens for normal rubico, which resulted in quiet the power creep because rivens were not adjusted then and there. Same happened to prisma gremlins too.

Riven disposition was always meant to be a dynamic system that helps unpopular weapons to see the light of day, not to make fairly strong weapons even stronger. Unfortunately that's exactly what's happening way too often because the power dynamic of weapons shifts more often than riven disposition, which causes dysynchronisation (as shown by Rubico Prime).

If you make a decision - against all odds, signs and advices - to put a LOT of effort into something clearly overpowered (rubico riven for rubico prime, when its obvious that its going to get changed for all the right reasons) that's absolutely on you.

I put 60 rolls worth of kuva into my Quartakk rivens which i have 2 of. And this change gave more value to all that grind i went through.
I would argue that this would be a victory on my part because i treat rivens the way they're supposed to be treated - bandaids for underpowered good-for-nothing weapons, which i actually secretly love. Like Quartakk, Stuba, Magnus, Viper, Twin Vipers, Kraken, Vulkar... The list goes on and on.

Edited by Artek94
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Too many cry- players .. where what u all call nerfed i see a very litle tweak  really theres not big diference on these rivens . 

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2 минуты назад, davej83 сказал:

Too many cry- players .. where what u all call nerfed i see a very litle tweak  really theres not big diference on these rivens . 

Serisously this. "Oh no i lost 10% crit chance on my Rubico Prime" - like jesus christ. I understand going from 150% to 90%, but its only -20% at worst.

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Salt applied - plus thanks for getting around to these changes, like to see more

Edited by PoistyNZ
unnecessary salt

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2 minutes ago, davej83 said:

Too many cry- players .. where what u all call nerfed i see a very litle tweak  really theres not big diference on these rivens . 

It's easy to say that when you have not spent your fortunes on Rivens.

You buy a convertible 0Km, the following month take a wheel and break a mirror, what do you say? "Oh, at least it's still walking?"

Excuse me.

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2 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Serisously this. "Oh no i lost 10% crit chance on my Rubico Prime" - like jesus christ. I understand going from 150% to 90%, but its only -20% at worst.

Great, where's my 20% spent platinum on the riven?

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7 часов назад, Truli сказал:

But if you're so selfish to only care about your "fun", then ok, but you;d be playing alone this game since many will quit it soon. 

Btw - that's kinda hypocritical to call me selfish. Arent you are selfish too for wanting your greatly overpowered rivens for already good enough guns? This reeks of power elitism - something i despise in any game.

Edited by Artek94
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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

It's easy to say that when you have not spent your fortunes on Rivens.

You buy a convertible 0Km, the following month take a wheel and break a mirror, what do you say? "Oh, at least it's still walking?"

Excuse me.

I'm curious, when you spent a fortune on Rivens did you take some time to read how they work? That their stats are based on weapon popularity?

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

Great, where's my 20% spent platinum on the riven?

Its lost in the lack of forethought that they have always said riven balance changes were coming, and are subject to change in the future too.

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7 минут назад, Peter сказал:

Great, where's my 20% spent platinum on the riven?

Ask the guy you bought it from? Also ask past you, when he made the decision to buy it with platinum - when he clearly (should've) knew its a fairly risky investment.
DE are not responsible for your decisions with your money in this particular case. Its a general knowledge (i hope) that riven disposition is dynamic. Therefore any investment into it is a risky one, and you are the one taking that risk.

Edited by Artek94

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13 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Rivens were made to support weak weapons, not to create overpowered monsters. Unfortunately, exactly that happened after the massive rebalance of primary and secondary weapons which caused a lot of them to be fairly strong, while rivens were still balanced after their outdated underpowered state.

Then same thing applies to releases of improved versions of weapons such as Rubico Prime which received rivens for normal rubico, which resulted in quiet the power creep because rivens were not adjusted then and there. Same happened to prisma gremlins too.

Riven disposition was always meant to be a dynamic system that helps unpopular weapons to see the light of day, not to make fairly strong weapons even stronger. Unfortunately that's exactly what's happening way too often because the power dynamic of weapons shifts more often than riven disposition, which causes dysynchronisation (as shown by Rubico Prime).

If you make a decision - against all odds, signs and advices - to put a LOT of effort into something clearly overpowered (rubico riven for rubico prime, when its obvious that its going to get changed for all the right reasons) that's absolutely on you.

I put 60 rolls worth of kuva into my Quartakk rivens which i have 2 of. And this change gave more value to all that grind i went through.
I would argue that this would be a victory on my part because i treat rivens the way they're supposed to be treated - bandaids for underpowered good-for-nothing weapons, which i actually secretly love. Like Quartakk, Stuba, Magnus, Viper, Twin Vipers, Kraken, Vulkar... The list goes on and on.

The objective of riven is far from balancing, do you want to balance? take that crap out of the game and work directly on gun status, but do not tell me what rivens are there to balance something, do not be a hypocrite.

Edited by Peter
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6 минут назад, Peter сказал:

The objective of riven is far from balancing, do you want to balance? take that crap out of the game and work directly on gun status, but do not tell me what rivens are there to balance something, do not be a hypocrite.

I never said they are to balance something. There is a clear power progression of weapons through the game. A weapon that MR1 uses is not a weapon a MR25 would use.
But what if MR25 actually liked that weapon in the past? Maybe it looks badass, maybe it feels good, maybe it has a special nostalgia value to it...

That's what rivens are for. For all those forgotten weapon that you liked, but left behind because they are no longer good enough to compete with the likes of Rubico Prime, Tigris Prime, Soma Prime and others.

Edited by Artek94
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Только что, Peter сказал:

But they are responsible for the satisfaction of their customers, making this kind of change does not bring any benefit, just screwed who supports the game.

I'll start ignoring you, you're only here to laugh at those who suffered with the changes, just like the other forum clowns.

Yes they are. And i'm goddamn satisfied with this change. 90% of changes mentioned are justified, save for few exceptions.
Thank god riven disposition is dynamic, so there's a possibility they will take care of those exceptions properly.

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I spent 5000 pl to buy a nice riven for the tiberon. I will never waste money on this game again.

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Man i better start getting loto numbers. I freaking called this. I said the community would throw one hell of a over entitled temper tantrum.

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31 minutes ago, (PS4)nekokujo said:

You do a good job at countering some of the arguments brought up here by my fellow posters, but I still don’t see how these changes have a positive effect on the game. Why not just buff the weapons that need buffing (or rework them to make them more appealing)? 

As others have said, rivens don't exist solely to balance the game. In fact, it's hard to argue they even begin to do that. They are a bonus. Tigris Prime doesn't need a riven for anything. They are just so that players have some end game stuff to go for and that less powerful weapons can see play. You think Karak Wraith would ever see usage without a good riven behind it? Only for MR, in most cases. Disposition is there so that the most powerful weapons don't get so far ahead of the rest that the rivens for weaker weapons become meaningless. That's the point of balancing disposition, not to balance weapons themselves.

As for buffing weapons, they did a lot of these kinds of tweaks early this year with the MR overhaul. Some of them I would have preferred they leave alone (like Lex P), but they mostly made some kind of sense and were attempting to answer people requesting that DE address weaker weapons specifically.

If I could suggest a change for DE to implement, it would be that the rivens not carry the disposition, but that the weapons do. The rivens would get a base stat allocation that is then multiplied by the disposition rating. This way Tigris P doesn't get the same benefit as normal Tigris from said riven. This would probably be difficult for them to implement, I'll admit, but I think the approach would overall make better sense.

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16 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Yes they are. And i'm goddamn satisfied with this change. 90% of changes mentioned are justified, save for few exceptions.
Thank god riven disposition is dynamic, so there's a possibility they will take care of those exceptions properly.

What exactly are you so satisfied with? Does it really hurt your enjoyment of the game to know someone someplace is using a ‘meta’ weapon with a riven that apparently has 20% too good of stats?

i think those delighting in other people’s disappointment should remember that this is a free to play game that relies upon people making platinum purchases with real world currency. If the people who buy stuff like rivens are less inclined to inject money into the game, all players will suffer from longer content droughts and less money for development.

Edited by (PS4)nekokujo
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5 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Man i better start getting loto numbers. I freaking called this. I said the community would throw one hell of a over entitled temper tantrum.

Lotto implies your call was lucky. It was only logical. That's why I never understood how people could charge (or pay!) for rivens in excess of 200-300p, and even that is a lot for a mod that only really helps one weapon.

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13 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Yes they are. And i'm goddamn satisfied with this change. 90% of changes mentioned are justified, save for few exceptions.
Thank god riven disposition is dynamic, so there's a possibility they will take care of those exceptions properly.

I think the point people are trying to make is being missed by a lot of people. It's hardly dynamic if the changes come through with no consistency regarding time and then some weapons are skipped over by hand.

They've had numerous opportunity to tweak Riven dispo in the past. They did a full weapon pass not too long ago, they've released insanely powerful prime weapons with Riven dispositions that are wildly and obviously out of line with the program. The best and most logical times for a Riven disposition adjustments came and went with no sign of concern from DE about the obvious balance concerns the other updates and content was creating.

If these balance passes had a schedule or a more rational system in place it wouldn't have triggered this kind of reaction. 

People are feeling 'entitled' because they're spending money and the developer they trust enough to do that with has made some sketchy moves here. Dropping sentinel Rivens right when Moa's come out? Releasing a super controversial update at the same time that it's going to be buried in the positive press of Fortuna? 

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have expected that a change would eventually happen, but DE could have handled this so much better if they handled such an obviously sensitive change with the tact and respect it deserved from the time this system was originally implemented.

 

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Nerfed my favorite weapon riven hard went from 35k damage to 8k. Actually first time i have something negative to say about this game. That was my index weapon. Id buy boosters to farm credits non stop. Many times carried new players with that. Should left them hell alone and just made the not so good ones more effective on other weapons. Not nerf. MR 24 put over 2500 hours logged on steam to this game. This actually makes me rage. Want to add this in as well. This move just screwed your paying players. Those who farm and trade plat. Those who put time in. Made the game more grindish by lowering damage. You may have some who like the change. They may like to now feel like they are a part and doing damage. Thats cool they could of avoided the power players before by being a adult and avoiding player. You will now make those who are higher mr avoid lower mr players ten fold because they want speed runs. As a paying player and a higher MR i will now leave POE and other party's with low levels. Carry runs are done. I like to play and grind but i do not like spending 20- mins on one Eidolon. I know i  will not carry new and low MR in index and make the match last longer. I will not help them with boss runs, or raid. RIP rivens of old. Im sure im not alone in this.

Edited by Anbu9000
more info to add.
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16 минут назад, (PS4)nekokujo сказал:

What exactly are you so satisfied with? Does it really hurt your enjoyment of the game to know someone someplace is using a ‘meta’ weapon with a riven that apparently has 20% too good of stats?

i think those delighting in other people’s disappointment should remember that this is a free to play game that relies upon people making platinum purchases with real world currency. If the people who buy stuff like rivens are less inclined to inject money into the game, all players will suffer from longer content droughts and less money for development.

Yes - it does. I dislike power creep and i dislike power elitism. I hate being the guy who has nothing to do because i decided to - oh god - have fun instead of being 100% efficicnecy maniac.

Its annoying to see eidolon's tendrils to get literally oneshoted by some people. Don't get me wrong - part of me is grateful for grinding efficiency, but i also find it way more pleasurable to see tendrils get anihilated by a combined firepower of the team, not to live in a shadow of one guy who brought 150%+ crit chance lanka.

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3 минуты назад, (PS4)xSweep66 сказал:

I think the point people are trying to make is being missed by a lot of people. It's hardly dynamic if the changes come through with no consistency regarding time and then some weapons are skipped over by hand.

Oh yes, i absolutely agree with that. The reason why riven changes are so painful is because they stay around for way too long and cause  people to fall into false sense of security.

If riven disposition system is dynamic - it should be as dynamic is it goddamn can. I already called that these adjustments should happen at least once a month. I also already created a thread where i ask DE to add a disclaimer in the game itself that directly brings it to player's attention that anything involving rivens has an element of risk to it and all decisions made around them should be treated with responsibility on the player's side.

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Just now, Artek94 said:

Oh yes, i absolutely agree with that. The reason why riven changes are so painful is because they stay around for way too long and cause  people to fall into false sense of security.

If riven disposition system is dynamic - it should be as dynamic is it goddamn can. I already called that these adjustments should happen at least once a month. I also already created a thread where i ask DE to add a disclaimer in the game itself that directly brings it to player's attention that anything involving rivens has an element of risk to it and all decisions made around them should be treated with responsibility on the player's side.

And that I am with you on 100%.

But they did in fact fail here. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on their part. This isn't EA or Bungie. DE playing with people's financial, emotional or time investments is going to shock a lot of the most loyal fans who have a certain expectation from DE as a developer for the people.

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3 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Yes - it does. I dislike power creep and i dislike power elitism. I hate being the guy who has nothing to do because i decided to - oh god - have fun instead of being 100% efficicnecy maniac.

Its annoying to see eidolon's tendrils to get literally oneshoted by some people. Don't get me wrong - part of me is grateful for grinding efficiency, but i also find it way more pleasurable to see tendrils get anihilated by a combined firepower of the team, not to live in a shadow of one guy who brought 150%+ crit chance lanka.

Disregarding Fortuna, what new things to do in the game do you have now compared to pre-riven nerf? I think we all can agree that a well modded ‘meta’ weapon will steamroll 99% of the content in this game with or without a riven. That one guy will now have to maybe two-shot the eidolon instead of one-shotting it. You still don’t get the challenge you want and the lanka guy doesn’t get the pleasure of one-shotting with his favorite gun.

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This is a fun crud storm

Of really angry people

 

My opticor went from a 265% crit chance riven to a 222% crit chance riven

Yup

Edited by (PS4)Tomplexthis
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